DSR at the 2012 Runoffs

[Dennis Valet]

Last year I saw some wild stuff going on in DSR development (Carbon springs or something like that if I remember correctly?)

Any rumors floating around as to what we might see this year?

[Stan Clayton]

A completely bespoke turbocharged 670cc engine putting out 300+ hp.

[starkejt]

Isn't there one of those every year that breaks and ends up getting swapped for a gsxr1000 some time during the week?

[Stan Clayton]

The only one's I've seen so far have been destroked motorcycle engines...and yes, they couldn't hold together.

I am told that the new one is a one-off mini auto engine with in-line gearbox. I guess we'll learn the truth during test week.

[John Merriman]

$300 HP? Good lord. What's the power to weight ratio? And if you pop the clutch and floor it, does the car move forward or just sit there carving out two 6" deep holes in the pavement?

[starkejt]

The only one's I've seen so far have been destroked motorcycle engines...and yes, they couldn't hold together.

I am told that the new one is a one-off mini auto engine with in-line gearbox. I guess we'll learn the truth during test week.

ORLY? This is relevant to my interests.

[Stan Clayton]

ORLY? This is relevant to my interests.

YARLY. Check out this thread from over on the DSR forum.

[starkejt]

Quick question. Is it a crime against nature to mate with a race car?

[glenn cooper]

In Georgia, the answer is yes, but that can be negated by eating at a Chik fil A.

[starkejt]

If you start serving chicken fried in peanut oil with waffle fries, I'm going to eat it regardless of your political beliefs. I don't care if your restaurant is called Amalgamated Puppy Stranglers or Holocaust Deniers.

[NPalacioM3]

If you start serving chicken fried in peanut oil with waffle fries, I'm going to eat it regardless of your political beliefs. I don't care if your restaurant is called Amalgamated Puppy Stranglers or Holocaust Deniers.

My name is Nick Palacio and I approve of this message.

See what I did there?

[Stan Clayton]

Quick question. Is it a crime against nature to mate with a race car?

I'm still thinking on it, but I'm leaning towards "no".

[Dennis Valet]

why limit yourself to one exhaust pipe?

[Stan Clayton]

why limit yourself to one exhaust pipe?

If he'd paint it black and add a dorsal fin with spines sticking up, it's make a passable Batmobile...

/not a criticism, btw...I'm big fan of the Millers

[starkejt]

I'm still thinking on it, but I'm leaning towards "no".

Just think how hilarious and rapidly-accelerating those babies would be.

[KVS84]

I saw a WF1 today powered by a BMW S1000rr. Looked pretty fast.

[KevinFirlein]

since you own it I guess ya saw it

[Ivinsea]

I saw a WF1 today powered by a BMW S1000rr. Looked pretty fast.

I heard the electronics are extremely difficult to defeat...can you share any info?

[KVS84]

Factory electronics are impossible. Haltech ECU and a knowledgeable tuner and you're good to go!

[Ivinsea]

Factory electronics are impossible. Haltech ECU and a knowledgeable tuner and you're good to go!

Wow!

Wet or dry sump?

What max RPM are you using?

[JohnPaul]

I also heard there may be a Kawi DSR out there. Any word on that?

[KVS84]

Wet sump and 14k rpm's.

Having an engine that makes 25 pounds hot oil pressure is amazing.

[RobLav]

My oil pressure in the new Kawi with BRD dry sump was up at 75 PSI hot from memory. I'll check my data.

[glenn cooper]

Wet sump and 14k rpm's.

Having an engine that makes 25 pounds hot oil pressure is amazing.

You refering to idle OP?

Yeah amazing what can be done when there is no rule to utilise the stock ECU.
Look forward to seeing the results @ RO's.

[KVS84]

Yes that's idle pressure. 55-75 on track.

Stock ecu is a very stupid rule for FB. The cost argument makes no sense. The Pi system in my car cost double what the Haltech ecu system did.

[Ivinsea]

Stock ecu is a very stupid rule for FB. The cost argument makes no sense.

Agree 100%. We need to get some newer engines running in FB.

[Wren]

How many track miles on the BMW engine so far?

If the stock ECU rule keeps engines making a lot more hp out of FB, then it is far from stupid.

[KVS84]

Has nothing to do with making more horsepower it just makes the engines work period. You can reflash ignition maps with a stock ecu and use a bazzaz to tune your fuel in FB. 2 days so far on the Beamer and couldn't be happier. Running tomorrow also. Stock it makes same HP as built Suzuki with out the oiling problems. Can't beat German engineering.

[KVS84]

Although I do understand Wren if you mean keeping HP levels at the current spec engine 07-08 Suzuki that makes sense. 190-200 is the new standard for liter bikes. I will keep everyone posted on mileage and durability! So far beyond pleased. Tons of power and
Great oil PSI.

[Ivinsea]

If the stock ECU rule keeps engines making a lot more hp out of FB, then it is far from stupid.

Wren, I think you are merging two different topics.

1) Limiting FB power might or might not need to be addressed. IIR or RPM limits sound like intelligent ways to control power escalation.

2) FB needs a long term viable supply of engines. K7 and K8 GSXR's are going to become scarce at some point; they are already significantly more expensive than 2 years ago. All new liter bike engines are going to have sophisticated electronics that can be impossible to work around the stock ECU; it seems disingenuous to not allow this supply of current engines to flow into FB.


As you know, I am a Stohr fan. I would like to order a new car but spec'ing out a 2013 car with a 2007 engine seems ridiculous.

[JohnPaul]

Limiting HP and keeping competition at a somewhat even level in FB would probably best for the class in the long run. Think about it, who would want to race in a car that is not competitive? and right now that means the entire FB community. People would drop out instead of spending the money to fit and test a new engine. FB numbers would drop dramatically. Besides the fact that at 200hp they would probably have quicker lap times than Atlantics (not sure what kind of problems that would cause). On the othe hand it is going to get harder to find the older gsxr engines and the new gen engines are all at the higher HP levels now. Limiting the the RPM's (if easily doable) seems like the way to go to accomplish a level playing field and bring newer engines into the game. How would RPM limiting work and is it expensive?

[Northwind]

The last two posts should be moved. I think we have gotten a bit off track with this thread.

Back to our DSR/ Runoffs topic please. DSR is our testing grounds for technology for FB but we shouldn't steal their thunder with the exciting stuff that we all would like to see at the runoffs.

[Brett Lane]

Ok,

Didn't George Dean get the Kawasaki ZX-10R to work with the stock ECU?

And speaking of neat DSR stuff, Didn't someone mention sleeving down a GSXR 750 for turbocharging? Could that be relatively, remotely, kinda reliabe?

[Marty Nygard]

I believe Tom Bootz has run a turbo sleeved GSXR 750 and actually finished with it at the 2010 runoffs. Didn't appear to be a world beater. I believe they may have had exhaust valve issues. I also wonder if the bike transmission would withstand the alleged potential of 300+ HP. I have publically stated many times that a real turbo DSR will have to have an automotive transaxle and live with the 1000# minimum weight that would entail.
For those of you with long memories, the old 1500cc turbo F1 motors were capable of close to 1500 HP in qualifying. That was using fuel that guaranteed that you didn't want to ever have kids. Current SCCA fuel rules would probably limit a 670cc turbo to around 350HP.
Marty

[Ivinsea]

I will keep everyone posted on mileage and durability! So far beyond pleased. Tons of power and
Great oil PSI.

Keegan,
May I ask how much the Haltech ECU costs and how much effort and dyno time is required get it set up for your car?

Thanks.

Ivin

[brownslane]

Deleted

I believe Tom Bootz has run a turbo sleeved GSXR 750 and actually finished with it at the 2010 runoffs. Didn't appear to be a world beater. I believe they may have had exhaust valve issues. I also wonder if the bike transmission would withstand the alleged potential of 300+ HP. I have publically stated many times that a real turbo DSR will have to have an automotive transaxle and live with the 1000# minimum weight that would entail.
For those of you with long memories, the old 1500cc turbo F1 motors were capable of close to 1500 HP in qualifying. That was using fuel that guaranteed that you didn't want to ever have kids. Current SCCA fuel rules would probably limit a 670cc turbo to around 350HP.
Marty

[turnbaugh]

I think this may fit in this thread.

Why isn't anyone using a Ducati engine in a SR?

[JohnPaul]

I think this may fit in this thread.

Why isn't anyone using a Ducati engine in a SR?

Because they suck.

[KenT]

Audi just bought them; makes more sense for a sports racer.

Ken