What will it cost to run an F1000

[rdalcanto]

I've been running my Porsche 911 at the Miller Sportspark, but between tires and brakes, that is getting very expensive. I'm thinking about Open Wheel and the Stohr F1000. At this point I don't plan on racing competitively, but just want to get track time. What are the expected costs of running an F1000 2hrs a month? What do the tires cost and how many track days can you get from a set? What about brake pads and rotor wear? Engine and transmission reliability? Other expenses?

Thanks for any help you guys can give....
Rick

[RobLav]

Post this in the FB section and you'll likely receive a lot of responses.

[NPalacioM3]

Agree with above. With that said, I think you will find that an F1000 or pretty much any open wheel car does not make much sense as a track day toy. Many groups will not allow open wheel cars and if they do, I wouldn't want to be out there with tin tops. Closing distances come up quick and many times, they wont see you until you are along side of them and below their mirrors. VERY dangerous.

If you decide to get into w2w racing, you will likely spend much more money racing it than what you spent to do track days in your 911. To be competitive, you will need at least a set of tires per weekend, likely 2 sets at nationals. Not sure of the engine rebuild intervals these days with all of the power they are extracting out of those engines these days but I would expect the top guys rebuild their motors on a annual basis at the very least. Since this seems to be your first open wheel car, I think there are much more cost effective options out there to get your feet wet and see how you like it. F1600 or F2000 are great options and I would start with F1600, no wings or diffusers to tear up.

Good luck.

[brownslane]

Rick, the costs to run a formula car should be estimated at three to four times that of a door slammer, unless your car is an ex-DTM car!

I budget 6 hours of maintenance for every hour of track time. This is outside of regular maintenance and wear items (things like alignment, corner weights, cleaning, etc)...add those items and you should be looking at more like 8 hours of work for every hour the car is on the track.

Because of its nature, an F-1000 car will be much more sensitive to things like tires. The difference in performance (and overall grip/safety) will be significant in a car with two or three-event old tires. Old tires can be a quick way to exceeding the adhesion limits of a formula car and finding the fence....Depending on setup and tire choice (and your willingness to accept a lower level of overall performance), you can get three events out of a set of tires, but you will see a significant drop-off in performance and predictability.

You will not be saving money by running an F-1000 car; but you will be driving a purpose built race car.....and there will be NO comparison to what you have driven previously.


You also will be driving something that needs a precise set up, both suspension and engine. It requires a greater committment than just fueling and installing new tires like a track day Porsche needs. You need to investigate a local, recommended preparation shop, take a look at what they would recommend and charge.... and then decide.

Have you looked at something like a Radical? I have one. As much as its overall performance level does not come to that of a full-out formula car, it is much less demanding of time ( and tires, and set up). You could get a season of use on a harder-compound tire set for a Radical, still achieve huge reductions in lap times, and take a major step forward in developing your driving skills. The maintenance requirements of a Radical (if in good shape and well maintained) is about half way between the F-1000 and a 911. And the Radical has an added benefit of a second seat so you can scare the crap out of spouses, the kid down the street who thinks he is a great driver, etc.... and as previously stated, the Radical is a closed wheel car so is allowed with the other door slammers on track days.


Regardless, you will have a HUGE smile on your face with either car; you will never have gone faster and you will be challenged to develop your technique.



Regards,

[Rick Ross]

IMO, an open-wheel car is a poor choice for track days. But it you must have one, I would definitely not recommend an FB for your purposes. An FM would be a much better choice.

[rdalcanto]

Thanks for the replies guys! I'm just learning my way around this forum, and will repost in the FB section.

[rdalcanto]

Have you looked at something like a Radical? I have one. As much as its overall performance level does not come to that of a full-out formula car, it is much less demanding of time ( and tires, and set up). You could get a season of use on a harder-compound tire set for a Radical, still achieve huge reductions in lap times, and take a major step forward in developing your driving skills. The maintenance requirements of a Radical (if in good shape and well maintained) is about half way between the F-1000 and a 911. And the Radical has an added benefit of a second seat so you can scare the crap out of spouses, the kid down the street who thinks he is a great driver, etc.... and as previously stated, the Radical is a closed wheel car so is allowed with the other door slammers on track days.


Regardless, you will have a HUGE smile on your face with either car; you will never have gone faster and you will be challenged to develop your technique.



Regards,

Thanks for the great reply. Isn't the Stohr fairly similar to the radical, with the exception of closed wheel vs open? Similar motorcycle engine/transmission? The owner of Stohr seemed to indicate that very little maintenance is required on his F1000 other than oil changes and chain tensioning. But, I'm posting here to get a less biased view....

[brownslane]

The Stohr is a much nicer, more sophisticated and more capable vehicle. It is specifically designed as a full-out racing car. Performance at any cost kinda stuff. The result is a car that is more complicated to maintain (just a little), a bunch more tuneable, and ultimately a lot quicker. It is also much more complicated to maintain, easier to lose a nice driveable tune, and will "eat" more money.

The Radical is really not designed as an all-out car. The suspension is less complex, fewer parts that wear (has urethane bushings versus rod ends), and frankly is a safer chassis. It also is typically easier to drive close to the limit....with that said, the limit is also lower.

Bike engines, if not tuned like an F-1 engine, can and will run for a long time. Just don't over-rev, keep the max RPM down by say, a grand from the top, and the engine will run for ever! But if you buzz them to the red line all the time, they will go boom pretty regularly. So treat them well, change the oil every event, never let them overheat...not even once....and they'll be great.

For your use, the Radical is a much better choice for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I own an FM as well; this is a GREAT formula car. The rotary engine will survive just about any abuse you could possibly hurl at it (including missed shifts and over-revs), the chassis is really safe and strong, the car is relatively simple to set up and maintain...and less expensive than the F-1000...it (again, like the Radical) is also slower....

For a neophyte, I would not suggest a Stohr F-1000. The learning curve, both on and off the track would be pretty high.

Best of luck with your choices.

[Mike Devins]

Rick, the costs to run a formula car should be estimated at three to four times that of a door slammer, unless your car is an ex-DTM car!

Tom, I have a customer who is considering a DSR for next season. He is currently running NASA is an air cooled Porsche. I expected him to be shocked by the costs associated with a DSR, it turns out I am the one who was shocked by what it costs to run his car. An engine is $35k - refresh is $20k. He currently has almost $250k invested in the car. (BTW I believe that Loshak stated that he has approx $125K into his Stohr DSR)

He did two test sessions in my car and was 10 seconds a lap faster at Waterford than his best time in the Porsche.

His budget to run in D could not possibly be 3-4 times more than it is in the Porsche and would be less again if he chose an FB.

[brownslane]

Tom, I have a customer who is considering a DSR for next season. He is currently running NASA is an air cooled Porsche. I expected him to be shocked by the costs associated with a DSR, it turns out I am the one who was shocked by what it costs to run his car. An engine is $35k - refresh is $20k. He currently has almost $250k invested in the car. (BTW I believe that Loshak stated that he has approx $125K into his Stohr DSR)

He did two test sessions in my car and was 10 seconds a lap faster at Waterford than his best time in the Porsche.

His budget to run in D could not possibly be 3-4 times more than it is in the Porsche and would be less again if he chose an FB.

Thanks for that info Mike. I knew Porsche's were expensive to race. It goes to show you that you can spend as much as you want (or can afford) to do what you enjoy. I have a neighbor who spends a couple of $Grand a month on golf....

But we are not talking race cars here....my understanding is that the present use would be track day cars. The fellow is concerned that his costs (which are only tires and brakes) were too high in a track day Porsche. I told him that running a Stohr would be three to four times his present costs.... I honestly do not think I am wrong.

What would you estimate a race weekend budget would be for a DSR? Tires, fuel, maintenance hours?

[R. Pare]

If he desires to use a DSR or an F1000 as a track day car, costs can be reduced considerably by using a stock engine (obvious in FB), lower the revs 1000-1500 or so, and use hard tires that will last a couple days of hard running. If approached that way, and assuming no offs, costs could be held to quite reasonable, and possibly very near the same as for a Radical, and still be able to run faster.

[carnut169]

I've been running my Porsche 911 at the Miller Sportspark, but between tires and brakes, that is getting very expensive. I'm thinking about Open Wheel and the Stohr F1000. At this point I don't plan on racing competitively, but just want to get track time. What are the expected costs of running an F1000 2hrs a month? What do the tires cost and how many track days can you get from a set? What about brake pads and rotor wear? Engine and transmission reliability? Other expenses?

Thanks for any help you guys can give....
Rick

2hrs is just about a race weekend and test day. Figure a set of tires per to be "competitive", but just running around you can use them much longer.I know a couple of guys who run 30+ heat cycles. $800ish a set

Brake wear depends on your use and pad choice. I've seen them last 6-8 race weekends or changed after 1. $300ish Rotors last a long time.

I think Coop said he refreshes every 6 weekends... $3000+/-

Gas, towing, safety stuff, upgrades, setup tools, gears, fluids, wear & tear, wing parts, diffuser parts, crash damage, rod ends... some of the other costs that come to mind.