Future in Conversions

[rgu]

The board of the FFDA firmly believes that the future of our class is going to be determined by the number of conversion cars being done. I think six new conversion cars will hit the track this year. In fact four have already done so and by November we might see more.

So here is the question to ponder. What is the difference between a FV with FST components and a true FST Conversion?

We are interested in anyone’s views on this subject.

[SamF]

[FONT=Calibri]Robert, I’ll take a go at your philosophical question as from my view point I believe I own one of each. On my Citation with a tool box and parts it can be a FST or a Vee with about 2 days of work so to me that truly meets the Vee with FST parts bolted on criteria. My Acer-J Adams on the other hand was stretched to the max GRC allowance for a FST so that car would take a saw and a welder to go back to being a Vee, so I personally view that car as a conversion. I like the added inches that the conversion offers but in reality the two cars are fundamentally equal, the conversion just make maintenance a bit easier. My Citation proves that just bolting on the FST parts to the Vee works just fine and was a lot less work than making my Acer-J FSTconversion required. My conversion makes me happy as it is “my” car and I made it the way I wanted it.[/FONT]

[FONT=Calibri]IMHO both approaches can make a very good car it just depends on the time and effort you want to spend on the upgrade to FST.[/FONT]

[Dennis Richarson]

I decided to not stretch my Adams conversion to the max allowable length to make it more "sellable" when the time comes for me to retire from driving. Figured by doing that there'd be a potentially larger market as the car can be converted back to FV spec in an afternoon should someone wish to. I applied for and received dual homologation papers to facilitate the process. Guess that makes it a FV with FST components.


Dennis

[Matt King]

I guess I would consider a "conversion" to be a FV with FST parts bolted on, as it was converted from a FV. As opposed to a chassis purpose-built to be an FST (e.g. Evolution or some of the other chassis out there).

A FV converted to FST with more extensive modifications beyond bolt-on parts I would just consider to be a more expensive and time-consuming conversion.

[Bill Bonow]

I think I understand RGU's post and it brings up a valid question, are there any real differences in the FV with FST parts bolted on, the fully converted FV/FST and the purpose built FST.

When this comes up in discussion, I always go straight to Jason Steeb's Lynx B. To me, this car represents the perfect example of the FV with FST parts bolted on. Jason bolted it together and kicked everyone's butt.

Doug Seim's RGU Mysterian M5.1 is a great example of an FV that was fully converted to FST specs. Purchased as an Mysterian M2 and rebuilt from the ground up with a Mysterian M5 body.

The Evolution and Mission purpose built FST cars sure look the part of a real open wheel racecar, making room for the largest of drivers.

But the simple fact is that on any given race day, any one of the three types can and will win races

[Amon]

Bill:

You're trying to tell me that a D-13 converted to a FST isn't a potential winner?

Mark

[Bill Bonow]

Mark,

I think what I am really saying is that there are plenty of cars out there that are parked and with a little effort and money, they can be on the race track where they belong.

Here is a perfect example: http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49578

About 15 years ago, this Vector GB-4 lead the Runoffs (Mid-Ohio) with Greg Bruns (designer, constructor) driving. Fast forward to today, the car is parked in a shop in West Chicago, Illinois and nobody wants it.

It is a perfect candidate for FST conversion, meaning bolt on FST parts on this FV. As with any of the car in this class, good prep, drive like you stole it and you'll be right up front.

[lawyerbob]

I personally think that's one of the most alluring things about FST. If you have the $ to spend you can get a nice new purpose built car, but if not, it's possible to put together a top notch car from an older FV - a la Jason, Doug, or even Gomez.

In my mind, it's comparable to being about to buy a club ford and still have a shot at the Runoffs. Not sure where else you can get that.

My (sitting on the sidelines) 2 cents.

Bob

[Amon]

Bill,

I know all about the Vector's having nearly bought one from Greg back in the day. In
fact, I just came across photo's of his car from the late 90's that he provided to me
around 97' or so. They were very fast in his hands and could be in others, thus making a nice FST conversion.

In regards to the D-13 crack, I was the one who mentioned my goal of converting one
even if it meant we would be a little behind in the areo and cooling department since
their one of my favorite vee's.

Peace...out!

Mark

[rgu]

Mark

You should just do it.

Probably you could get a D-13 roller for about 2K
A complete front end is about $1250, A long box 1:26 trans could be had for $700 and disks and calipers would be about $550. Brand new wheels and tires would set you back a $1000.

Budget about $500 for fabrication work on the front beam support. If you buy the SR scoops ($200) cooling should not be an issue. *

Sell your Vee specific parts to offset these costs and your all set. I'd bet a FST roller could be done for very little. Start adding premium parts like shocks and Data and the price goes up.

* The FFDA web site has a conversion calculator that will have more accurate pricing than what I'm giving you

Go to it

[lawyerbob]

In regards to the D-13 crack, I was the one who mentioned my goal of converting one
even if it meant we would be a little behind in the areo and cooling department since
their one of my favorite vee's.

Mark

I still think a D-13 based FST car would be one of the best looking cars out there! A shame it won't be mine! lol

Ah well

If you do it Mark make sure to post lots of pics of your progress

[Amon]

Robert & Bob,

I will probably make an effort to convert a D-13 in 2014. My son will be out of
college, (hopefully), and I'll have the time and additional funds since he'll be able
to fund his own racing endeavors by then. In regards to the D-13, I've owned two
(75' & 80') and the 80' has been sitting in a storage facility since I sold it 10 years
ago, and would make a good conversion since it would need a refreshing etc....It
has the Kazmarek scoops (over the shoulders) built into the tail, but I'm not sure
if it would provide enough overall cooling without adding a remote cooler. I'm also
trying to figure out where to place the dry-sump tank since space is at a premium.
But I have several years to worry about those issue's.

Mark

92' Protoform P-1/004

[rydawg011291]

Take this with a grain of salt but the number of conversions may play a big part in the FST class's success, but I also feel that you need to show that this class is the way to go for a small budget person and that you can be competitive with a smaller budget. FST is a Regional class only so you need show incoming rookies and even more experienced racers that if you want to have fun and be competitive for very inexpensive... FST is the way to go.

[Bill Bonow]

Mark,

Dry sump tank in a D-13, a piece of cake!

I just made a tank for Dr. Doug's Jacer that was 1" thick and looked like an old wild west tombstone. The system holds 6 quarts and after 4 races (2 weekends) seems to function just fine. The Falcon (Dave Kameirzak) D-13 tail has large oversized head duct openings. I'll bet they will work better than you think. In addition, dry sump will work wonders for oil temp as well (about 30 degree loss over wet sump).

Start collecting parts, sell the FV components to help fund your purchases.

This goes right along with Ryan's post, FV/FST conversion plays a huge part of FST's success...... Want to competitively race for the least amount of cash, convert.

[rgu]

Last winter one of our current FST drivers told me that his goal was to buy a FST, a small trailer, new tires, rains, a driver suit and helmet, pay entry fees and do all that for 10 grand!

He's on track and I bet he'll let us know after Watkins Glen.

Sam's Citation has a few nibbles but I think still available for those who want to be out this year for 8K

[rydawg011291]

Also you must play off the fact that FST parts are for the most part brand new. FV all those parts are very very old and expensive to replace. For example a new FST engine costs roughly 4 grand and a rebuilt FV engine costs 6 grand. Another example is tires, a new set of FST tires is a lot cheaper than FV tires. Formula Vee isn't going to die off anytime soon. But if FST works on growing more and more each year, who knows it may become like the Zetec and Fit of Formula Vee.