50th FV Anniversary with the Vallis Cup at Mosport

[AVR_Shane]

I think this would be a pretty cool idea, and perhaps a good way to get some interest from our southern counterparts.

Any thoughts on how we can promote this?

[Mark Filip]

I think this would be a pretty cool idea, and perhaps a good way to get some interest from our southern counterparts.

Any thoughts on how we can promote this?

Great Idea

[jhenn4716]

How many would attend if it was at the GP in support of F1?

Never say never it may just happen!

We could all only dream of such things. Walking around the paddock in our driver suits, fans running up to us thinking we're F1 drivers, asking for autographs.

[Mark Filip]

lets start a list of potential entrants


Mark Filip

[Tiago Santos]

I've seen the entry fees for some of the F1 or IndyCar support races.. I'd love to, but don't think I could do it!

[jhenn4716]

I would drive anywhere, short of crossing water, to get to such to such an event. Spend whatever it took to convert to 1200 (new tires, etc...)

So count me in, wherever I have to drive too

[Mark Filip]

I've seen the entry fees for some of the F1 or IndyCar support races.. I'd love to, but don't think I could do it!

You are correct this could be the only problem I see but like jhenn4716 I would find a way to make it happen.

I know cost would be huge for us mostly cheap FV drivers but 50THs and racing at a GP weekends don't come offen

Can anyone tell me about how many F1200 cars there are currently actively racing?

If it was decided to run as F1200 and not SCCA FV I also would purchase wheels and tires then it would force me to visit Mosport

[Tiago Santos]

With how popular F1200 is up there, there might be enough entries to have F1200 and FV as separate classes so everyone gets to run their normal stuff..

I'll see how things progress with this idea, as realistically I can't tow my car to Roebling Road for the 50th. I was planning on being there, but not racing. Mosport is still incredibly far, but might be doable!

edit: meh. 4300kms vs 4900kms..!

[jhenn4716]

All dreaming aside, what changes would a driver south of the border need to do? What are the costs (tires), etc... I could expect to see?

[Mark Filip]

With how popular F1200 is up there, there might be enough entries to have F1200 and FV as separate classes so everyone gets to run their normal stuff

how popular is it? 50 cars 20 cars? Sorry I just don't know. Cars would still be able to run close it could just be a race within a race it's not like we will have a issue with massive closing speeds I mean I know we have a extra .5 neck breaking hp with the $1000 manifolds but we could blend.

If this was to happen I'm sure we all could figure something

I also would like to know about the costs to run F1200
Do you guys ever run Tremblant? Another track I love although I have not run that track since the improvements.

[Rolling Stone]

how popular is it? 50 cars 20 cars? Sorry I just don't know. Cars would still be able to run close it could just be a race within a race it's not like we will have a issue with massive closing speeds I mean I know we have a extra .5 neck breaking hp with the $1000 manifolds but we could blend.

If this was to happen I'm sure we all could figure something

I also would like to know about the costs to run F1200
Do you guys ever run Tremblant? Another track I love although I have not run that track since the improvements.

No we only run Mosport,Shannonville and Calabogie and Calabogie is certainly worth the drive up north,a beautiful smooth trackF1200s/FVs and OIL on track wouldnt enter Ecclestones head,unless someone knows Schumacher personally it would never happen.IMHO..I would vote for Calabogie for the 50th Anniversary,20+ corners only a few years old etc,etc.All worth looking into though,all opinions.

[Rolling Stone]

We could all only dream of such things. Walking around the paddock in our driver suits, fans running up to us thinking we're F1 drivers, asking for autographs.

There was a great photo a while back of Steve Bamford F1200 who also runs FF at an F1 support race,he is sitting in his FF outside the RED BULL GARAGE area waiting to start his race...

[Mark Filip]

unless someone knows Schumacher personally it would never happen

It wont happen we are smoking crack and very dulusional about the idea

[G.B.]

Formula F supported the F1 race at Montreal and I heard the entry fee was $1500.

Stop dreaming boys and move on.

Mosport is one of the best tracks in North America.

[AVR_Shane]

Mark, to answer some of your questions....

- I would say there are currently 25-30 active Formula 1200's in Ontario. We regularly get 15-20 cars at any given weekend. I'm sure that we would have somewhere around 25 cars at a "50th birthday" weekend.

- Differences between F1200 and FV are wheels/tires and intakes. Wheels cost $90/wheel brand new, tires are around $600/set and will last you at least 2 seasons with no drop off. A set can be had from us (AVR Motorsports) for a very reasonable rental fee (we use beer as a form of currency up here). No super swelled intakes...

- As mentioned, entry fees are a little ridiculous for F1 entry...I seem to remember hearing closer to $3000, but Guy might be closer at $1500. I still believe the best choice for the track is Mosport. It's iconic, probably the best track in Canada, and we already go there!

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

Don't want to hack the thread but...

tires are around $600/set and will last you at least 2 seasons with no drop off.

For the past 2-3 seasons I also thought the Falken had consistent performance, and they don't.

Proven last week-end: another racer and I had 9 heat cycles on our sets and we couldn't keep up with a guy that was running a brand new set. Both of us had very similar fastest lap times, much slower than the leader while typically we're matched. I switched to a sticker set for the next race and voila, almost 2s gained on a typical 1min12 lap.

Mind you the track was a bit slippery, which seems to increase even more the difference between new and used sets.

[Mark Filip]

Don't want to hack the thread but...



For the past 2-3 seasons I also thought the Falken had consistent performance, and they don't.

Proven last week-end: another racer and I had 9 heat cycles on our sets and we couldn't keep up with a guy that was running a brand new set. Both of us had very similar fastest lap times, much slower than the leader. Typically we're matched. I switched to a sticker set for the next race and voila, almost 2s gained on a typical 1min12 lap.

Mind you the track was a bit slippery, which seems to increase even more the difference between new and used sets.

Now you will have stickers most of the time
I have tried to prove this point a number of times but lets leave the tire battle to the previous number of threads and not visit this again please.

I would still love to try them and run with you guys but I will have sticker

[nbrigido]

Now you will have stickers most of the time
I have tried to prove this point a number of times but lets leave the tire battle to the previous number of threads and not visit this again please.

I would still love to try them and run with you guys but I will have sticker

1 Set of Falken's will cost less than $400. They will last 2+ seasons. The leaders in our series are getting faster and faster as the tires are getting older (this is the 2nd season on the tires).

As mentioned before racing is very tight, the guys are friendly, everything is done to keep costs down, everyone as equal as possible, and everyone having fun.

P.S. For some reason, beer is not "legal Tender" for track fee's..

It would be safe to say, 15-20 cars is the average count.

[problemchild]

Don't want to hack the thread but...



For the past 2-3 seasons I also thought the Falken had consistent performance, and they don't.

Proven last week-end: another racer and I had 9 heat cycles on our sets and we couldn't keep up with a guy that was running a brand new set. Both of us had very similar fastest lap times, much slower than the leader while typically we're matched. I switched to a sticker set for the next race and voila, almost 2s gained on a typical 1min12 lap.

Mind you the track was a bit slippery, which seems to increase even more the difference between new and used sets.

Clearly, J-S does not understand the difference between "proven" and anecdote. Lets concentrate on the more likely delusion that FVs will race at the GP next year.

[Mark Filip]

Some people just never have anything positive to say

[AVR_Shane]

P.S. For some reason, beer is not "legal Tender" for track fee's..

I've never understood this....

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

Greg:

Obviously your reality is different than ours. There's been discussions in the past where it was said the F1200 tracks seem to wear the tires differently, you see barely any wear at mosport from what I remember.
You just proved my point: your experience with the Falken might be anecdotal to me and anybody who might used them anywhere else.
I'm not arguing or rejecting your opinion, just underlining anybodys experience with these tires might be different.

It is, and it will be, who cares.

[hojof1]

given all my anecdotal experience allows me, i would probably run on old falkens (K spec) if i had a choice over stickers.

would prefer to scrub in stickers first on a practice day.

while mosport is not a tire eater, shannonville certainly is and is a lot more similar to grimli. quite a few of our group ran faster by a good bit on the older rubber than last year, anyway 100% anecdotal.

if the guy went from old falken non-Kspec to K spec, there's your time.

correct me if i'm wrong but does anyone pick up 2 sec per lap on sticker hoosiers? unless the cord is showing or its flat? just sayin...

[hojof1]

seriously,talking 1200 at a GP weekend, you're on crack

entry fee is 1500 as well for FF http://www.siteformulatour1600.com/f...VENTS_2012.pdf

i'm sure bernard & co, would love 30+ 1200 and vee's lubing the track up nicely before they run LOL.

I know I went off base, i couldnt resist. But the orginial topic is a good one and I think is a good idea to seek further input on

[Jean-Sebastien Stoezel]

You know, I feel sorry you are taking this personally. I am sure what you are experiencing has some truth, I do understand and respect it. And this might be true for your corner of the world.

We only ran the non K specification for 1 season, and we haven't seen any of these for the past 3 seasons.

Like I said it was a slippery track and based on our observations this is when the difference shows. A 2s difference on a slippery track based on tires is certainly not unusual. Been there and tested this while gokarting.
For the past few seasons a bunch of us thought there was no performance loss with the Falken. We had all the reasons to think it was this way, times were at best improving over the season while tires were wearing. I think there's other ways than consistent tire performance to explain consistent lap times over a season. One reason might be the tracks we use are buried in snow 6 months of the year and do improve as the season goes on. And again this is our view, it might be different than yours.

The only place so far I've experienced old tires run quicker is a local go-kart track. It had became so bumpy that it got grinded down. It produced a track with a very fine grain. The difference before vs after grinding was huge. Brand new tires were much slower than old ones. I remember buying an old set with not much rubber left on them just because they were faster.
I only raced that gokart track, but racers who would travel all over Canada said this was the only place were you needed old tires, and needed to run at a higher tire pressure, 18psi instead of the typical 14psi anywhere else. Tire wear was minimal, it almost looked like you had sanded the tire surface. Tires that came from other tracks had a much coarser pattern.

given all my anecdotal experience allows me, i would probably run on old falkens (K spec) if i had a choice over stickers.

would prefer to scrub in stickers first on a practice day.

while mosport is not a tire eater, shannonville certainly is and is a lot more similar to grimli. quite a few of our group ran faster by a good bit on the older rubber than last year, anyway 100% anecdotal.

if the guy went from old falken non-Kspec to K spec, there's your time.

correct me if i'm wrong but does anyone pick up 2 sec per lap on sticker hoosiers? unless the cord is showing or its flat? just sayin...

[Rolling Stone]

You know, I feel sorry you are taking this personally. I am sure what you are experiencing has some truth, I do understand and respect it. And this might be true for your corner of the world.

We only ran the non K specification for 1 season, and we haven't seen any of these for the past 3 seasons.

Like I said it was a slippery track and based on our observations this is when the difference shows. A 2s difference on a slippery track based on tires is certainly not unusual. Been there and tested this while gokarting.
For the past few seasons a bunch of us thought there was no performance loss with the Falken. We had all the reasons to think it was this way, times were at best improving over the season while tires were wearing. I think there's other ways than consistent tire performance to explain consistent lap times over a season. One reason might be the tracks we use are buried in snow 6 months of the year and do improve as the season goes on. And again this is our view, it might be different than yours.

The only place so far I've seen old tires run quicker is a local go-kart track. It had became so bumpy that it got grinded down. It produced a track with a very fine grain. The difference before vs after grinding was huge. Brand new tires were much slower than old ones. I remember buying an old set with not much rubber left on them just because they were faster.
I only raced that gokart track, but racers who would travel all over Canada said this was the only place were you needed old tires, and needed to run at a higher tire pressure, 18psi instead of the typical 14psi anywhere else. Tire wear was minimal, it almost looked like you had sanded the tire surface. Tires that came from other tracks had a much coarse pattern.

Have a great and safe season J.S. out West you guys,we are a friendly bunch really..just bring beer and women if you ever visit Mosport and whatever tire you want

[Mark Filip]

Can someone that is a moderator please clean up this thread and keep it on the first post and put the negitive tire crap in the trash or somewhere other than on the thread? Its been beaten to death over and over.

Lets promote the sport FV, F1200 or FST who cars

And if some of us want to "dream" about running at a GP weekend even if it cost $1500 so be it. I don't need to be told I'm on "crack" or I'm "dulusional"

[Rolling Stone]

Besides that I know what pressure you are under..I lived in Saskatoon for a year!!!!!!!!bloody ridiculous winterscoming from England to live out in Western Canada was quite the experience in 1983.

[Rolling Stone]

Can someone that is a moderator please clean up this thread and keep it on the first post and put the negitive tire crap in the trash or somewhere other than on the thread? Its been beaten to death over and over.

Lets promote the sport FV, F1200 or FST who cars

And if some of us want to "dream" about running at a GP weekend even if it cost $1500 so be it. I don't need to be told I'm on "crack" or I'm "dulusional"

Steady on Mark,Andrew isnt that kinda person,dont take it so seriously,thats the trouble with internet posts,people take it the wrong way.Im an old timer too so I know an old timer like yourself wouldnt use crack,we smoke dopeeasier to still be able to race that way!!!Noel & Shane use Beer..everyone to thier own..cmon up to Mosport and race

[problemchild]

Some people just never have anything positive to say

I thought I was being positive and trying to steer the thread back to the positive delusions of F1200 racing at high profile events.

Once upon a time, I had discussions about getting F1200 races at the first Toronto MolsonIndys. Those races are available to just about any group. Much like rides in Indycar, Nascar, and F1 .... money talks! At last year's GP in Montreal, the talk was that one supporting group's entry fee was $13K. That was each driver! While the FFs ($1500 entry) were paddocked in the gravel maintenance yard under the Cartier bridge, the $13K guys had nice paved paddock.

[hojof1]

sorry Mark, guess you didn't see (smiley face, smiley face), i'm sorry but i couldnt help but laugh at the prospect of Vee's at the GP in general no matter whose idea it was.

BTW we all drive F1 cars, they are just F1-200's.

JS, as i said, 100% of my anecdotal exp. if thats how it is for you guys out there, then look for an advantage of how to exploit that.

Frank, thanks for the stick up

Ask John Bondar how much it cost to run at the Indy in Toronto for CanadianTouring Car.

and yes, thread should be closed or all posts not pertaining to original topic should be removed or just plain moved.

[fvhopeful]

Hello fellow f1200/fv drivers

Rather then getting off topic . why couldn't we have a informal meeting Saturday .
To discuss the oppurtunity to organize a steering commitee to look at the feasablity
of staging a race durning a major race weekend at CTMP (sorry Mosport to some)
just a thought .

Thanks
Desmond

[Steve Bamford]

For those of you who want a do run at a Pro weekend you have to realize that they whole schedule is much different, way less track time. This past weekend was a Pro Weekend & the FF's ran. We had 4 sessions on the weekend total. 2 qualifying & 2 Races. No practice sessions, no warm up sessions...just get in & go. It would not be different for FV if you were able to get into one of these weekends. There was 3 test sessions on Friday compared with the usual 5 or 6 sessions we normally have.

The GP weekend in Montreal is even shorter, 1 qualifying on Friday & one race each day on Saturday & Sunday with no options of a test day. Lots of sitting around time.

All depends what you are looking for but our regular CASC weekends allows us much more track time then any Pro Weekend will.

I know it will be a celebration weekend & socializing is part of it however if you are looking for track time as well you might be disappointed. Also we need to support our clubs that put on the regionals for us & having 6 weekends already if you were to add a pro weekend would mean we drop one of the club events or we run 7 weekends total...which I wouldn't advise either.

My 2 cents is just pick one of the weekends next year, look at the SCCA calender that comes out & pick a weekend that does not conflict with any or many of their events & choose that weekend as our 50th Celebration weekend.

[AVR_Shane]

My 2 cents is just pick one of the weekends next year, look at the SCCA calender that comes out & pick a weekend that does not conflict with any or many of their events & choose that weekend as our 50th Celebration weekend.

This would be my vote as well. Even if we were to run a pro weekend, it would completely take away from the hype of "50th birthday". If we try to bring this up with one of the sanctioning clubs, I think we could have them promote it as the feature event of the weekend...make a big deal about it!!

[Steve Bamford]

Also pick a weekend at Canadian Tire Motorsport Park (the artist formely know as Mosport, opps I mean track formely know as Mosport) as it is the closest to many of our US friends as well as one of the best tracks anywhere in the world. Not to take anything away from Calabogie however CTMP has more tradition & better proximity to more of our Southern SCCA FV Members.

[hojof1]

This would be my vote as well. Even if we were to run a pro weekend, it would completely take away from the hype of "50th birthday". If we try to bring this up with one of the sanctioning clubs, I think we could have them promote it as the feature event of the weekend...make a big deal about it!!

i think this would have some traction with the clubs potentially and gain some interest there. we've been the largest single car count gorup in the region the last few weekends, which is why we've been getting the big trophies at the end of weekends lately.

[AVR_Shane]

Does anybody know which weekend the Vallis Cup is this year? I have a feeling it's the Celebration (final) weekend, but don't know for sure.

[grapefarmeral]

Id pay a $1500-3000 entry fee to do an f1 weekend..... Heck, I'd buy a European Vee and pay a $10,000 entry fee if we could do the F1 weekend at Monaco..

[Rolling Stone]

Id pay a $1500-3000 entry fee to do an f1 weekend..... Heck, I'd buy a European Vee and pay a $10,000 entry fee if we could do the F1 weekend at Monaco..

I'd chip in $50 to help out if you would let me be your Pit-Crew in Monaco...I know!!only $50 but I'm a Welsh/Canadian remember