Any news at the Sprints? Honda vs. Ford? Fat tires vs. Skinneys?
Thanks Wes
June Sprints Report?
Any news at the Sprints? Honda vs. Ford? Fat tires vs. Skinneys?
Thanks Wes
Inept race control. Wasn't this the same group that couldn't even release the right line of SM cars from false grid?
I'll post more later, but congrats to Ethan for the win. Very, very nice guy and this was easy to see on his face what it meant to him to win it. Seeing his happiness is about the only good thing that came of this disaster.
RH
June Sprints
I have no idea what happened at the Sprints but it sounds like Reid has the right attitude about the result!
Allen, Allen, are you out there Allen?
John
Results ?
What went down ?
sprints
Heard there was rain and stopped for tire change. I give up, so what happened???
Ethan Shippert, formally from Cen Div, now residing in Cali, won the race.
The above post is for reference only and your results may vary. This post is not intended to reflect the views and opinions of SCCA and should not be considered an analysis or opinion of the rules written in the GCR. thanks, Brian McCarthy, BOD area 9.
Congrats Ethan! Can someone please give a race report, sounds like things got interesting!
First off an admission: I cannot, after all these years, drive in the rain.
So while we sat on the false grid, just past T1 the sky turned black. The first lap was the only normal part of the race, as it was run while the sky grew darker but the track stayed dry. As I came down to T5 on the 2nd lap, rain started streaming across my visor. By T6, no more raindrops. By the carousel, my visor was getting wet again - and Jamie Stiehr was off track right at the exit. And 2 FE's were off past the carousel. And another FE was off as I came into Canada Corner. And Jeff Bartz was off in T1 and my car was wiggling like crazy even though I had completely gone to wimp mode.
We ran 2 laps under a full course yellow, then got brought into the pits - for a 15 minute tire change only. No work on the car. Except tires.
I saw Steve Barkley and I think an FE or two drive to the end of the pit wall, presumably returning to the paddock. I figured these guys had no rain tires. Later, when I saw Barkley return, my team told me that word in the pits was that drivers without crew had been given the ok to change tires in the paddock.
We sat forever. Finally, we were told the race would not be shortened, T5 was under water, and most apexes had standing water - and we went out, Reid Hazleton leading FF. But we were gathered up I believe after Canada Corner and brought into the pits. Another long wait. During which 5-6 cars (Reid, Steve, Jamie, and an FE or two) were pulled to the black flag station. Eventually we went out again, and as I saw Reid go by me, then felt a little brush as Jamie and I touched in T3, I realized that these drivers had been penalized and sent to the back of the pack. (Later, I learned that some had been penalized after going to the paddock with stewards' permission! and some for exceeding the 15 minute time period for changing tires.)
A few cars slid off on the first two laps as I continued in wimp mode - mostly FEs for some reason, although Scotty was in the wall past T1 at some point.
I was disgusted enough with my race that I still haven't looked at the results. What I heard was
Shippert - walking away
Kautz
Hazleton
Blanc
Stiehr
Take the above results with a grain of salt. I am not totally sure. My son, who came up for the race, told me that Shippert was Schumi-like. At the same time, my son was polite about my struggles in the wet. LOL
Marc had another great rain drive (after pulling me around in qualifying two, for which I thank him immensely, Marc and I having a blast running around with Jeff Bartz). Jamie had an all around great weekend (as Jamie and I were paddocked together, we could apologize to each other and each take the blame for an innocent brush of front tires on the restart).
The mess up in the pits was really bad. To penalize drivers for what they were clearly told they could do is just bizarre. I felt very bad for everyone up front, as the confusion and bizarre decisions were enough to make any result taste bad. As Reid said, Ethan's outstanding drive was the only thing challenging this view. I didn't meet Ethan, but my hat (helmet?) is off to him on the basis of what I heard from spectators. Congratulations to Ethan.
Last edited by Allen_W; 06.17.12 at 6:54 PM.
June Sprints
Congrats Ethan!!!! You make us west coast guys very proud..
Congrats Ethan!!
Pretty much what Allen said. We were in the car for this debacle for over an hour and a half green flag to checkered. Also, the smug, errogant attitudes exhibited on pit lane by those giving orders was appalling. I have never been treated like that at a race in my life.
Like Allan said, it started to rain and two FE's getting together after the kink and multiple other offs caused the black flag all situation. Cool, no prob...good call. Sitting there in pit lane, race control then decides to call it a rain race and allow us to change tires and restart in the order of the previous lap. Stupid call #1. (We should have sat there until the track was clean, and when the pit car left if you decide to pull off and change tires, fine. Go for it.) So, with no crew I was screwed anyway. I sat there as I watched the floor of the car fill up with water from the rain like I have not seen in many years. We were told we would be given 15 minutes to change tires and remain in our pit box to be put back in order. After sitting there for what seemed like 10 minutes, a pit steward told me "The Chief Steward has said you can go back to your pit spot and change tires." Really stupid call #2.
So, I go back to the trailer (and I see Barkley, Brandon Dixon, and a few others do the same), change tires and go back to pit lane. Did you know an FF will float? I do. There was so much standing water I hit a river that felt like I hit a brick wall. I couldn't tell what was a little puddle and what was deep through the dark visor. Good thing I had practice from driving through all those flooded back roads in high school. I hit on puddle so deep the car started to float into a trailer, I think I came about 3 inches from hitting the gate on the French's rig.
Anyway, getting back to pit lane they point me to P1, and I assume everything is in order in this very odd event. We sit there another 20 minutes and are finally sent out...and the rain has now stopped and become a very, very light drizzle if anything. We are released again and go out for the recon lap under the pace car. Just as I get to T14 I see out of the corner of my eye the workers scrambling to get the "Black Flag All" sign out. Now, mind you I am P1..in class...behind the FBs and most FEs. I doubt they ever saw the sign. The pace car stops in the middle of the track and points everyone to pit lane. I figured someone wiped out like an idiot on the recon lap.
After sitting in pit lane for another 10 minutes I am ask by a lady (I don't know who, maybe it was the Chief Steward Joanne Jensne) if I worked on the car. I said "No, I just changeid tires like I was told I could under order from the Cheif Steward". Then I am told that I am being sent to the back for working on the car. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sitting in line, I want to talk to a steward before I move out of line, figuring once I get out there is no way they will let me back in. There, I am told if I can ask to talk to someone all I want, but this isn't a democracy and if I don't like it I can go home. Really cool, leading the June Sprints and it's a big "F YOU" from the pit lane staff. So I go to the black flag box where I am approached by the very person who told me I could go to the paddock and change tires. I explained all this to him, and his reply was "well, the rule is if you leave the track during the race and reenter, you do so at the back." I said, "No, the rule is if you leave the track you are not allowed to reenter, your day is over and you overturned that rule via the Chief Stewards decision." He proceeded to tell me that I am wrong and he knows the rule book. I told him, "You know you just cost me the June Sprints right?" His reply..."I don't care. Too bad." At that point, my calmness left me and I wanted to get out and club him like a baby seal with my steering wheel.
So, I sit there, with all the others who left pit lane behind me as I watch the field leave pit lane. DFL.
Now, to restart the race (Stupid decision #3) in my opinion after what had to have been 50 minutes sitting in the car with so much water on the track was absolutely, without a doubt and no exaggeration the most dangerous situation I have ever been in....in or out of a race car. The spray was so bad I could not even see where the track went, a wall, a rain light, anything to use as a point of reference. With the smaller diameter rain tire, the car was bottoming out horribly on the dry set up. Tim said it was the same for him, just scary. So, I don't know how many car I passed (I couldn't see a thing) but in two laps I had gotten though some FEs and went passed Tim for 2nd. Now that I was out of the spray I could see that Ethan's clean track had let him take off and build a huge lead. I tried to catch him for about a lap and a half and didn't seem to make up any ground as he was still a little black dot off in the distance. On that lap through the Carousel the car bottomed out real bad in the front and I thought that was going to be the end of the 92 VD, right then, right there.
At that point, I decided it wasn't worth pushing it and risking creating something even worse than had already been created. Cruised around and finished the race.
Coming off the track some pit lane workers point me over to the area on pit in just before false grid out, and the Chief Steward is standing there. I'm thinking..."Great, now what are you going to do? Take away a finish?" Joanne Jensen, the Chief Steward kneels down next to my car and says (this might not be an exact quote, but it's as best I can remember) "Hi Reid. I am the Chief Steward and I wanted to tell you how deeply, deeply sorry I am for what happened to you. I can not begin to express how regrettable this situation is for me. We all really have something to learn from this experience."
I could say a lot, and I am really mad about it still - mostly for how I was treated for doing something I was told I was allowed to do- but I will leave it with what I told Joanne "I appreciate that very much, it take a very big person to admit that and apologize so sincerely. But, that does not make this right. I understand wanting to learn from this, but at the National Level, and particularly the June Sprints, this is not a time for learning."
Total, total BS. I am sure I should have waited a week to write this but that's how I see it.
At least they released the right line of cars from false grid for the SM race this year....
All in all, a really, really sour taste in my mouth for ever going back to the June Sprints or a Chicago region race. To have handled it sooooo poorly, treat someone like they did with such smugness, and penalize some drivers for race control's poor decision is unacceptable. SCCA says they strive to make the experience more enjoyable for the racers.....how does this fit in.
Yes, I know...they are volunteers. I do appreciate everything they do, it really is awesome. I go to every worker dinner and talk to who I can and thank them for working whenever I interact. But, that does not excuse this type of disaster and to treat drivers with that type of attitude. Bogus.
Last edited by reidhazelton; 06.17.12 at 8:43 PM.
And I didn't want to lump Ethan into my rant, but give him the props he deserves. As big of a mess as it was it was good that he won it. He earned it, take nothing away from him. And to be honest, I am not sure if I could have held him off if I started where I should have been. No matter what the powers at be created, he deserved this - without a doubt. He was really, really on it.
On the podium, he said is parents met at this race back in the day so it had some special meaning to him. A very cool story. Also, when you see Ethan's flowing golden locks....he is growing that to donate to Wigs for Kids. A stand up guy in my book. I'll share a podium with him any day.
So, again, congrats Ethan. You earned that going away.
I've never had it happen at a Chicago region race but it isn't even unusual in my experience. I agree that the workers never seem to know the rules. Sometimes they get it right eventually and sometimes they don't.Originally Posted by reidhazelton
I know it is expensive and I know it is along way away from you, but there is a solution: www.f1600series.com/
As for the ride heights, changing them is part of changing the tires. The stewards need to learn this and not penalize it.
If I could do it for $8k (my budget) a year, I would in a heart beat. After this, I am thinking of selling a kidney to fund it. Know anyone looking for one? Lightly used, non smoker, non drinker, workout regularly. Only used to go to church on Sunday.
Reid,
Your rant pretty much nailed it!!
They came over to me and said you can go change your tires in the paaddock but you only have fifteen minutes to do it. I'm thinking this is clearly not right based on the rules so I think to myself "I'm just going to stay in line and wait. I'm not going to have my 74 year old father run on foot to the paddock a half a mile away and expect him to return with time to change tires. I'll just try to get enough laps in to get a finish and call it good. About five minutes later Mike Beauchamps crew guys show up with my rain tire and go F1 style tire changing on Mike's and my car. I have three new hero's in my life. Thank you Craig, Steve and Dad!!!
Re-starting the race I relized the ride height is not even close to reasonable and I just decided to limp around for a finish. I still spun in turn 13 and missed the wall by about two feet on drivers left. That slowed me down even more and I just cruised around looking at all the carnage. It was like a bad dream running in slow motion. The bright side is the car is in one piece with the only damage being caused from a FE tapping me in the diffuser under braking at T3 on the first lap. A little fibeglass repair and it should be back to functional.
Your post reminds me, as I sat in pit road getting soaked - I swear I was sitting in two inches of rainwater - my radio stopped working at some point - I noticed some guys even wetter than me hustling back and forth, changing the tires on the FF in front of me. What was odd is that I didn't really recognize the people and yet the car was paddocked with me. After the race I asked my crew about this - and they told me it was guys from Elite who showed up to help people up and down the pits get their tires changed in under 15 minutes. So a big thanks to the Elite guys - awesome.
The restart was just how Reid calls it - chaos in almost total grey-out.
I had the pleasure of parking next to Ethan at Fontana last weekend. He's a great guy and a deserving winner. Here's what his car looks like from behind in the dry. He won that race too.
Moral of the story : Know your rulebook, and don't follow any commands by the Stewards that are not enumerated as being within their powers. This is not the first time that this sort of thing has happened, and won't be the last.
You would think that the Stewards of all people would know the rules, but such is not always the case, unfortunately.
Two pertinent entries from GCR:
6.9. RAIN RACING
If a race is started in the dry, and it starts to rain on all or part of the course, the Chief Steward may use one of the following procedures:
A. If the race has covered half or more of the scheduled distance or time, it may be finished with the checkered flag.
B. If the race has not reached half distance or time, the black flag “ALL” procedure shall be used to bring all cars into the pits, and 15 minutes will be allowed to install rain tires, at the driver’s discretion. The cars will restart single file in the physical order of the cars on the last completely scored lap.I confess to not being well versed in all the nuances - perhaps someone knows of other relevant entries or can explain how these were being interpreted?6.2.2. Retiring to the Paddock
. . . A car that retires to the paddock from the pits or the track during its race may not return to the track unless the Supplemental Regulations or the Chief Steward specify.
I do know the rule book, but if a Chief Steward says to do something, or something is ok...I guess they should know.
This years race sounded like the mess they had in 2008. I agree with you. Volunteers are volunteers, they do the best they can with what they know. Ried I think if you want a more professional series then pro 1600 or pay for a ride in one of them private series...................but ya did a hell of a job coming back to 3rd from DFL
Interesting video incoming....
(Once I figure out how to edit the thing)
RH
I have to say, after driving many different classes and cars, that the FE is the hardest car to drive in the rain I have been in yet. Really hard to get any stability in it. Just way, way too stiff. Forget changing swaybars, etc. It doesn't roll to even matter.
I am just glad my car made it back in one piece with Patrick pushing for a win in the rain.
jim
It really looked that way, and I remember a very rainy May qualifying session last year at Blackhawk when FF and FE ran together, and FF qualified on pole, screwing up the split start.
I felt for you guys out there, looked very tricky from my seat. Still, I really like the FF/FE pairings.
Matt Cutter posted this in the FE forumand some video of the first laps showing how tricky-slippery it got really suddenly . . .After the 15 min or more we were lined up in the pits and restarted behind the pace car only to be black flagged again. This time to reorder the cars again. The drivers who left the track were put to the back. It was really a bummer for them since they were told they could leave by the pit marshals. So now a restart in the rain and visibility was poor going into 1, 5 and canada. I decided to just hang on and take what I could get.
Wow
Congrats to Ethan! Great guy and definitely deserving of this win.
I'm glad everyone is safe after the chaos that was the June Sprints. I'm sorry thats how the event went. Unfortunately our stewards aren't always as up to par on the rules and information that they NEED to know.
Again I'm sorry y'all had to deal with that. Here's to hoping the season improves and stays dry for everyone!
Meg Sauce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6vO...ature=youtu.be
Hey, You. Dude in the orange vest and black rubber suit. Me got an emoticon for you...Take that.
Yes, I know he was just the messenger and it was likely not that guys fault.
Congratulations team wisconsin
Wish I'd been there, Ethan! Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic!
Chris Crowe
I know how I'd understand that application of the rules . . . sheesh.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa6vO...ature=youtu.be
Hey, You. Dude in the orange vest and black rubber suit. Me got an emoticon for you...
Yes, I know he was just the messenger and it was likely not that guys fault.
Frustrating for sure. Lots of lessons to be learned here, just sucks that all those lessons had to be learned at such an important race.
Sprints
Wow. What a weekend. First off, thanks to everyone above and at the track for your kind kind words. I know I wasn't a favorite to win this thing in the dry. I feel terrible that the event was ruined for Reid (who is also one hell of a nice guy, and a FIERCE competitor) and many others. The rain always puts a color on a race finish, not to mention steward intervention.
That being said, I still feel pretty darn good this morning.
I wrote up a little report on the last two weeks over on my blog if anyone is interested.
http://ethanshippert.blogspot.com/20...uto-races.html
Thanks again guys. This was a big one for me.
Ethan Shippert
http://shippertracingservices.com
https://www.norwestff.com
"l'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!"
Perfect Racing
Well, what another interesting Sprints! We had the honor of being the corner workers at Turn 14 on Saturday during the race that this thread is discussing. Reid is correct, we barely got the black flag all up in time to let anyone see it.
With that being said, I agree that the calls and the decisions were a bit odd (won't discuss further here). We are on the F&C net so we probably heard a bit more than you guys are aware of. The statement was made in this thread that the Sprints are not the place for "leasons to be learned". If not, then where is?
Consider the following few weeks of professional race events and what has taken place.
Dixon penalized incorreclty in Milwaukee, IndyCar admits the error.
Race track falling apart in Detriot, could have been avoided.
Grand-Am has tweaked their wave by rules a couple of times this year.
Constant loopholes in F1 that are closed each year when people take advantage.
NASCAR throwing competition yellows to manage tire issues.
Turbogate.
This is racing and no event is ever perfect. Working F&C for 16 years, a lot of crazy stuff has happened each weekend and we always learn. That may not take the sting away from those who were adversely impacted this weekend, but the bottom line is, this type of things happen almost every week in some racing series across the globe.
Let's not treat the Sprints like they are in a vacuum and that error should never occur.
you earned feeling VERY darned good, congratulations again
My statement about it sucking to learn a lesson at the June Sprints was more along the lines of the competitors learning a lesson. Things like knowing the rule book (and I admit, I would have listened to the pit lane steward also), having enough crew over the wall to handle the situations, proper planning with rain tires (i.e. making sure you plan ahead and know that if you have to rush over to rain tires, you won't have a dangerous ride height). Things of that nature. I know as a competitor, I would rather learn those hard lessons at a less meaningful race!
Skinny Tires in the Rain
Congratulations, Ethan. Prodigal son of Wisconsin? Any conclusions on the skinny tires in the rain and flood?
- Frank C
I still don't understand: the GCR says you cannot return to the paddock without the Chief Steward specifying that you can - yet in this case the CS apparently specified ok and had race officials communicate that out to drivers.
The only lesson I can take - not trying to be flippant - is not to believe what's verbally communicated to me! To be honest, I didn't recall where 6.2.2 says "unless the Supplemental Regulations or the Chief Steward specify" - only that you cannot return to the paddock. But, like you, if a race official told me I could change tires in the paddock, point blank, without the GCR handy and time to debate interpretations, I would have done what the affected drivers did if I needed to.
Send it to me Reid...Let me know what you want and I can do it for you.
Uhhh...never mind....guess ya got ti figured out...
Currently Without Car
chicago
Congratulations to Ethan and all the FF "sailors" who finished the race.
After 4 decades of running chicago region events, mostly at R/A, I could put together a book on the number of official induced screwups. Primarily at the Sprints, but also at later nationals or the annual autumn chicken regionals. There probably are more than a few FF folks who remember the green light start that wasn't a start back in '83 that collected about 2 dozen cars coming up the hill. Then there was a rain race a few years earlier won by Andretti after he passed most of the field on the pace lap. Could go on and on. I thought once "Grumpy" left things would get better but...... Since they started running us with FM bumper cars I gave up on the Sprints.
How about at a regional race and not at a premier event? Mistakes made at important events will always have more import and every effort should be made to avoid them at races like the Sprints. People invest huge amounts of time and effort into winning races like the Sprints and for something like this to happen is unforgiveable. If you are going to have to learn a lesson, let it be at a race like a regional, which is held every other week and not at the second most important National of the year.
And your reference to mistakes being made at all levels of this sport as somehow excusing what occurred here is also misplaced. Yes, mistakes happen, but acting as if "that's life" and it happens all the time and nothing can be done to avoid these mistakes is wrong. This fiasco should be investigated and whoever was responsible should be banned from acting as a steward again.
Reid, you deserved better buddy.
Take care.
Tom
Oh the days>>>
I will not add my stories especially the one one where the track offical poking my chest after a stuck throttle off at six. Hard 30 degree in to tires under the bridge(second biggest hit I have had). I was trying to show to tow guy where to hook the strap. Even the corner worker stepped away with a look in his eyes WHOA. Bruce
ays old bud Smoke wanted to Kick his A__. Not to mention the kindergarder driving meetings they use to have.
But still it is a special place! But damn they know we all know it! " Thank You Sir I will Have Another"
Author Unknown
(In case "they" are watching)
I would also like to know why the worker in pit lane who is clearly heard in Reid's video telling him that it was OK to go to the pits to change tires did not step up when the cars were being re-gridded and Reid was being sent to the back, and advise the Steward that he told drivers they could go to the pits. What did he do when the decision was announced to penalize Reid and others, keep his mouth shut and help move the cars to the back?
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