FF results

[TeamFRD]

At "The FIRM" Florida International Rally and Motorsports Park gorally.com
Run 1 was fastest since run 2 had issues. http://vimeo.com/53299504 HD available

[jdp526]

Dick, I am running an FC with a 10:31 and a 13:37 integral first gear. I usually launch car around 4K I guess. I dont pay much attention to the tach. I do have two years on clutch disk tho. And, I do need more practice on downshifts. I forget to blip throttle enough as I go through neutral to make for smoother shifts.

Team FRD, hard to see exactly why the back end came around unless tires are worn out or something broke. Didnt look like car was upset enough in transition to spin out.

[chrisw52]

wow.. that is a bumpy lot.

[Neil_Roberts]

As someone who has a lot of experience with unintentional off road racing, I can help clarify what happened to TeamFRD.

The car sure looked like it whipped around without warning, but the narrow pavement just made the slowly increasing understeer seem like it developed a lot faster than it really did.

The most annoying bit of physics that we have to deal with is the fact that velocity shows up in the automotive cornering stability equation. The result of that is that the slower you go, the more understeer you will have, no matter what. To compensate for that, autocrossers all tune our cars to be looser. That works fine until you get to a fast section of the course, where the physics-induced understeer fades away and the car goes steady-state loose.

That led to a small countersteer before the third slalom cone, but it wasn't big enough, fast enough, or long enough to stop the slide. From that point on, the car was behind the course, going looser, and aimed toward the grass. Of course, brushing the brakes in that condition would have caused a spin for sure. The best option would have been to key on the pavement boundaries instead of the cones, get the car back under control, and carry on despite the DNF.

Yes, I'm guilty of armchair quarterbacking here, but I've taken enough Buttonwillow dirt showers recently to recognize the onset of an oopsie.

[Jim Garry]

I tend to not doubt Neil very much. In addition to his credentials, he helped me out a good bit this past season. However I see some driver input issues that led to the spin.

It appears that the slalom may have been a decreasing distance deal. But even if that isn't the case, there was an issue of getting behind on inputs. At a point between the 2nd and 3rd cones there was some pretty good steering input because the car seemed to be behind. Then when it was clear (perhaps instinctively) that the car was going to hit the 3rd cone if left on the course it was on, some more input occurred.

I believe it was this second piece of input that started the oversteer.

But I've been wrong 18,332,238 times before. One more time won't make any difference anymore.

[TeamFRD]

Maybe, lifting as cresting a hill and after, makes front end light and late for the downhill cone. Turning on the slope contributes. I think I recall turning towards the grass to avoid any sideways nastiness. The tach needle is not visible so high revs in 2nd gear ~50

The nose bottom was cracked but that is all. That run was .62 better than my first up to that point. Took 2 more runs. Run 3 had a little step out as well. Run 4 was my best segment through there but messed up the final slalom to be little slower.
It's frustrating to see that the best segments combined could have been 1.4 seconds faster.

[jdp526]

Here are a few videos from events I have run in this year:

http://youtu.be/qGzPxtzZ8go

http://youtu.be/NKAKsbx9AVU

http://youtu.be/kIzAEv2pw0I

[TeamFRD]

Solo at The FIRM 2013-08-11 >>> http://vimeo.com/72164444
Not too bad for not driving this car since January!

[mwizard]

Solo at The FIRM 2013-08-11 >>> http://vimeo.com/72164444
Not too bad for not driving this car since January!

Looks like a very fast course. What is the FIRM? Looks like a road race course.
Mark

[racerdad2]

gorally.com pretty cool multi-use facility

[TeamFRD]

More Solo fun at the local Navy airstrip - - Just 1.95 runs for me today. Engine trouble at the end of run 2. . . . https://vimeo.com/76297481

[mwizard]

More Solo fun at the local Navy airstrip - - Just 1.95 runs for me today. Engine trouble at the end of run 2. . . . https://vimeo.com/76297481

That looked like a FF in action Love the clam shell trailer. I have one designed for my open trailer, but don't really need it. Did you figure out what caused the engine problem?
I duked it out with another FF yesterday for TTOD. He beat me by .03. We were about 2 sec faster than #3
Mark

[mwizard]

I posted video from the Lockheed martin club event from last year near the top of this thread. I ran a 55.820. They used the same course this year; I did the straight and right at the end of it in 4th and the rest in 3rd for a 54.650. Making progress
Mark

[mwizard]

SCCA event here in SF Bay Area yesterday with 184 drivers. FF's top times 1, 2 and 3.
Mark

[mwizard]

SCCA slush event at Marina airport, 106 drivers, CM Overall 1,2,5,6 with a BM and DM in-between
I expect several more FFs in this region next season.
Mark

[george schilling]

SCCA slush event at Marina airport, 106 drivers, CM Overall 1,2,5,6 with a BM and DM in-between
I expect several more FFs in this region next season.
Mark

Well Mark, we can enjoy it while we can. Next year that will read 11,12,15,16.

[mwizard]

Well Mark, we can enjoy it while we can. Next year that will read 11,12,15,16.

Yes, the Pax problem. We will just have to get faster.
I know the cars have it in them.
Mark

[TeamFRD]

My compilation video... https://vimeo.com/89360502
I moved myself from CM to BM to change run heats and have fun with a good group of 'Mod Squad'ers

[TedV]

David, how was the yump in the thread the needle section, middle of lot close to the road? I've always hated the pavement in that section. Some courses get across it better than others. I didn't hear a THWAK!! from your car in the video.

[Dick R.]

Also, how fresh were your tires? I assume 25A's.

Thanks for posting! CM is great fun.

Dick
CM 85

[TeamFRD]

* R25Bs from Ebay. I'm not that happy with them for asphalt but $260. My first run on Saturday I spun at the turnaround. Lots o' skating and lifting. I did not have confidence. Could have gone faster everywhere.
* The bump was not that bad. Apparently, it threw me into a cone on Sunday. FUN-FUN courses.

Photos: Mod cars on page 1 http://photos.kestrelracing.com/g/20..._national_tour

Dick and TedV - wish you were there. TedV, maybe co-drive next year. I recall that we are similar sized.

[TedV]

* R25Bs from Ebay. I'm not that happy with them for asphalt but $260. My first run on Saturday I spun at the turnaround. Lots o' skating and lifting. I did not have confidence. Could have gone faster everywhere.
* The bump was not that bad. Apparently, it threw me into a cone on Sunday. FUN-FUN courses.

The lot gets a layer of sand and is frustratingly unpredictable in my experience. Last time I ran CM there I was in front of Pat Bullis by a second on Saturday, then first run group, daylight savings time change, Sunday course walks were in the dark, couldn't see where the sand was, spun all 3 runs. Sam Strano and Robert Carpenter thanked me for cleaning the line they ran later to winning effect.

Dick and TedV - wish you were there. TedV, maybe co-drive next year. I recall that we are similar sized.

I'm 5'11" and 160lbs. Thanks! I've been having some issues that prevent me getting to events and effectively driving a car. I could have co-drove the blue Shelby Mustang that ran ESP and SM. I think you and Jeff ran similar raw times. It's more of a sledgehammer tho.

[TeamFRD]

The C Mod Facebook group has already seen this but here's my latest... https://vimeo.com/112131415

[TeamFRD]

TeamFRD-20150419-Jax3-Gainesville-Ian =
https://vimeo.com/125756430

TeamFRD-20150314.15-DixieTour =
https://vimeo.com/122383331

[chrisw52]

I ran with the american autocross series this past weekend in Marina CA. Great event at usual..

Saturday
4th in class, 7th overall.
https://youtu.be/hYgoIoKUHGI

Sunday
2nd in class, 3rd overall, 17th in pax.

https://youtu.be/ep26XPn8bq8


and a little cone carnage for your enjoyment... This cost me 3rd in class on saturday
https://youtu.be/Q_yWi2lEMHs

[TeamFRD]

Driving video from Sat 11/7 at Roebling Road. 4th run was best time with 64.816. This run had 4 best segment times but so did the 3rd run. Here, I drove the big slalom better. https://vimeo.com/145061012

[CM/FFdriver]

Driving video from Sat 11/7 at Roebling Road. 4th run was best time with 64.816. This run had 4 best segment times but so did the 3rd run. Here, I drove the big slalom better. https://vimeo.com/145061012

The Vid looks good but the only thing would be like a lot of front brake lock up? or are you tire just out of grip your car sounded great what kind of muffler do you have? and then your head... try your best to keep your head still, look on line about how to drive a go-kart, one of the big things was to keep your head still just my .02.

Here's my driving my car with my go-pro on the top of my head you can see how easy it is to see the course. Even though a very short course, had the fast time of the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_16...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luS5ish1l0A
driving Chris Warners CM car, handles better then mine, more power off the turns. Thank you Chris

Ben

[-pru-]

David and Ben,

Thanks for posting the vids; nice runs!

A couple of questions for both of you:

~ How many runs on your tires in the above video?
~ What compound? (i.e. R25B A2500 or older?)

Thanks,

[CM/FFdriver]

Those were r35a's on a very cold day so not a lot of grip, tires were really talking the 2nd to last turn, fun though.

I can't until next year with the r25's and have some real fun.

Ben

[TeamFRD]

I bought mine used last autumn off here.
Fronts= 25B A2500s. Used at Dixie Tour & Sunday of Georgia Match Tour and 3 events a Gainesville Raceway. They appear to be done based on the massive push. [The Rear 25s I corded 3 weeks ago at the cheese grater-like Fernandina Beach airport.]
Rears=35A A2500s. Used last May at Roebling and Sat of Georgia Match Tour (6 runs in 95 degrees) and maybe others. Seem done as well.

My Contour does not pick up sound well. So it's deceiving. I'm actually open tailpipe since I run at race tracks and airports. At Dixie, I used 3" Supertrapp with 12 discs and hit 93 decibels.

I was set to use my helmet mount to avoid the vibration on the body but the sticky pad gave out in grid. That happened on course at the Match Tour. The bouncing, aluminum body Contour still works.

Counter question: I acquired other used tires off here of course. Older R35s and newer F1600s with 4 tick marks on the side. My durometer shows them nearly the same ranges. F1600 = R45B. Which to use this weekend at FIRM, forecast high of 72? Yep, sux for me.

[-pru-]

Counter question: I acquired other used tires off here of course. Older R35s and newer F1600s with 4 tick marks on the side. My durometer shows them nearly the same ranges. F1600 = R45B. Which to use this weekend at FIRM, forecast high of 72? Yep, sux for me.

If it was me, I would use the R35s...

[B17overhead]

Those were r35a's on a very cold day so not a lot of grip, tires were really talking the 2nd to last turn, fun though.
I can't until next year with the r25's and have some real fun.
Ben

Ben, Wouldn't you rather have top open class morning runs PAX ? Timing used the KM instead of CM PAX factor for you, so I emailed Colm. You have top morning PAX. However, you must have left early and not noticed Art in KM had a 33.877 raw time vs. ur 34.952.

I went backwards on my mixture all morning. Car would not run part throttle much at all- mostly idle and WOT. Worse then it ever was before. I was using input from the expert :-) who designed my EFI piggyback box. I also had over inflated as well as overheated the new lightweight carcass rear tires to where I had to spend an hour at lunch break scraping off blobs of rubber in the center 1/3.

Finally, in afternoon, made a huge mixture change that I never thought would work and it was like magic. 34.387 2nd run out. Finally able to balance the car in the corners instead of either having it die or light the tires.

So, if some is good, more is better, right? I pushed up part throttle mixture more, but didn't realize I had also inadvertently changed WOT too . Ran like crap WOT now and the rest of my runs because I kept playing with part throttle mixture trying to undo it. Slapped myself up aside the helmet finally, stopped on the course last run and fixed it.

Don't sell the R-35's short, they do have a tiny bit more grip than R25B if you get them up to their temp according to road racers. We had 6 runs in the morning and it was 74 F, (cloudy and windy at 64 F in afternoon) so I think if you had R25B, you maybe would have reached ur last run R35 time on the 3d run in the morning.

-Chuck

[CM/FFdriver]

Thanks Chuck,

For the update. I wanted to talk to you more about car setup but it looked like you were having problems with your car so I didn't get in there to ask the question I wanted to ask. The go-kart got a better time..!? great I sure hope so but I don't put a lot of emphasis on kart times in our region because of the lack participants in our region, but that said, base on current pax numbers the karting class should beat CM by 1.500sec on that 35.000 sec course, that is flying. All I try to do is get a better time on every run and the 34 sec run was alluding me and because I came in with a 35.400 the lap before I didn't think it was possible and that's why I had enthusiasm at the very end of my run. I love driving these car's!!!!

Sorry to hear about your problem's with your car, your car looks crazy fast!! I'm just learning how to drive in the CM class and having fun doing it and this car being 5 sec faster then my old car but still 2.5 sec slower then I need be. I Can't wait until next year.

Ben

[B17overhead]

Ben, Well you did pretty darn good at that event!

About the only time I can't chat easily is between my runs. They don't have very big run groups, so there isn't a lot of time to fiddle w. the car. I wear ear plugs and don't have much hearing left anyway- my time in the Artillery saw to that.

I'll PM you with my email.

-Chuck

[jdr17]

Tacking this on here for lack of a better spot and mostly just for fun:
https://youtu.be/ZVIvwVA4PaA

First 'real' event in the new-to-us Dulon and what a blast! The video above is my best effort and certainly no great example of CM driving - good enough for FTD vs a modest field, but almost edit3%5% off PaxFTD / a regular PAX benchmark.

I do have one question: looking at the data (RaceCapturePro recorded with SoloStorm), the lateral g's really aren't much better than our ES MR2! I'm obviously under-driving some areas (the g-g plot is less 'on the edges' in the CM) and the tires are old, but I was thinking they would still be 'better' than RE-71R's?

SCR7 = Steel Cities earlier this year = ES MR2
CBE8 = Cumberland today = CM

r,
John

[CM/FFdriver]

I think your putting to much into it when you've told us that your on old tires (big difference ) and is it just me but that looks like some old black top payment, or it's been slurry coated. I'm not sure how the Dulon is set up but I wouldn't change a thing until you drive on concrete with new tires and redo the data, you'll be surprised .

Ben

[-pru-]

...and the tires are old

John,

Thanks for the post / video. Looks like you're having fun with the new car.

Regarding the tires; how old? If they are as old I as think, then I'm impressed you kept the car pointed straight! Honestly, you need to try the car with fresh / newer tires...

Take care,

[jdr17]

...Looks like you're having fun with the new car.

You can tell?

Regarding the tires; how old?

Not THAT old, but well over a year.

...that looks like some old black top payment

Correct, and definitely not ideal for Hoosiers, but about the same grip as the Steel Cities asphalt (on 'streets')

...Honestly, you need to try the car with fresh / newer tires...

..I wouldn't change a thing until you drive on concrete with new tires and redo the data, you'll be surprised

I'm definitely not touching the setup until we see how it goes on fresh R25B's. I was actually temped to buy a set now, but better to be patient and wait until springtime vs storing them over the winter, I think. I'll be anticipating them for the next 5+ months!

[CM/FFdriver]

5 months of no driving, how do you guy do that?

Last event December 3rd, possibly 1st event of the season January 1st but more then likely January 15th

We have very little down time in California

Ben

[captain_pants]

Looks awesome John! Thanks for posting.