One-Off Cars

[Christopher Crowe]

Had a thought. How many truly one-off chassis are actually running in the club these days? Not the "McLeagle-Photon-type" modifications of other chassis, but true one-off, non-manufacturer machines. I assume most of these cars would be in the FB - C-D/SR catagories; but there may be others, FVs, FCs, I dunno.

Has anyone ever made a list of the true one-off machines?

Thanks,

Chris

[glenn cooper]

Edge/Hickman FB comes to mind.
Truly a "One" off! (and pretty bad ass).

[R. Pare]

There have been plenty of one-off ( or extremely low production) chassis in these classes over the year. Very few were successful in any way, shape, or form, hence their disappearance - it takes a lot of years of experience to make a competitive race car for any particular class, especially if it is a 'mature' class, so rarely will a first effort be successful. Obviously, there have been successful one-car or first-time efforts by very well experienced designers, but I don't think that is what you are asking about.

As far as a list is concerned, the only one I know of is the Formula Ford book (don't remember the title) that has a list of just about every FF ever made. Pretty easy to see how many didn't make the cut over time.

[Rick Kean]

A one-off's success isn't hopeless,
just close...

Rick Kean

[jerry freeman]

Edge/Hickman FB comes to mind.
Truly a "One" off! (and pretty bad ass).

damn Glen. I know I don't count for much but I believe I am the only guy to build and race an FB car that wasn't built with a multi-million dollar machine shop(Hickman).

Jerry

[R. Pare]

Citations are built with about as little by the way of equipment as is possible!

[Mike Devins]

Vestal Formula Ford is a one-off although it would really have been a DB-7 if Swift had built it.

No doubt the most complete one off that I have seen in Jon Staudacher's DSR's, he makes his own uprights and even turns his own wheel centers.

[S Lathrop]

FV is probably the the most popular formuila car class for one-offs.

The most famous and very successful builder that I can think of was Harvy Tempelton.

Ever hear of his Shadowfax? That was the first of three that Harvy built. He did 2 FVs and 1 FF.

I always like to see these one-offs. Frequently they have some very interesting features that are fun to see.

[ghickman]

Last March at Thunderhill the Edge F1000 was on the pole with a field of 12 FB's. I led the race for the first 6 laps until getting put on the wrecker by Russ Werner.

I believe to date I may be the only DESIGNER, BUILDER, DRIVER to win a SCCA National in a FB.

Yes a million dollar machine shop helps but you just can't replace the amount of man hours that goes into building one of these.....and I'm right in the middle of building another car.. what the hell am I thinking.

Props to Jerry Freeman and he is building another car also.

[a. pettipas]

As far as a list is concerned, the only one I know of is the Formula Ford book (don't remember the title) that has a list of just about every FF ever made. Pretty easy to see how many didn't make the cut over time.

Authored by Steve Nickless, awesome book but it stops at 1991 or 92 IIRC - maybe there are later editions than mine?

[Christopher Crowe]

The Edge, the JF 1 and 2. Shadowfax; I remember them from many moons ago (although I never saw the FF). I remember the Beasley sports racer -- Ocelot. Jon Staudacher's DSR's... then the FFs in the Ford book, not many built in the US. Although the lay-on-your-tummy-and-face-the-opposition creation would have been a bad idea ANYWHERE.

Is Cabir a real company or are those one-off creations? There were some one-off Indy cars thirty-X years ago. The Cicada out of Wisconsin; Grant King's "Kingfish" (although that was a pretty direct McLaren copy). Some of the Rolla Volstadt Indy entries may have been one-offs back then, too.

Damn. Suprisingly few one-off cars. And I never put it together that Gary Hickman is probably the only open wheel one-off car to win a national race in almost forever!

Too bad there aren't more classes that encourage the one-off attempts. In the UK, the hill-climbs seem to bring out lots of one-unit-only creations. And it's always interesting to see what people unfettered by things like producability and saleability come up with...

Thanks ---

[starkejt]

Not one-offs technically, but you have to give credit to Don Sievenpiper for designing and building every single Piper in his garage(s) until he sold the biz a few years ago. He also designed the Carbir originally.

[glenn cooper]

damn Glen. I know I don't count for much but I believe I am the only guy to build and race an FB car that wasn't built with a multi-million dollar machine shop(Hickman).

Jerry

"My bad" doesn't even seem to sound close to covering that faux pas.

Sorry Brougham, GC

[jerry freeman]

Just bustin your chops Glen. Alot better one-offs out there than I will ever build. Peace and love my man.

Jerry

[Marty Nygard]

I seem to recall a homebuilt FF at Brainerd back in the days I lived in Minnesota (25 years ago). I was deeply impressed that the front anti roll bar arms were sourced from a bicycle's pedal set.
I did the homebuilt DSR thing; fun to drive but probably never would have been front line competitive. I agree that you really need a few iterations to get the thing right.
Marty

[Jim Nash]

Formula Vee and First rules do encourage one-offs. Mike Varacins has been successful with his one-off. Greg Rice has built at least a couple pretty unique cars under the "Shirley MacLaine" moniker. My MRC-09 FST is a one-off for the time being. Mike Devins and his Hurley Racing Products outfit worked with me on the bodywork like he did for the Vestal FF. These are recent cars I can think of. I bet there have been quite a few more.

I seem to recall a homebuilt FF at Brainerd back in the days I lived in Minnesota (25 years ago). I was deeply impressed that the front anti roll bar arms were sourced from a bicycle's pedal set.
I did the homebuilt DSR thing; fun to drive but probably never would have been front line competitive. I agree that you really need a few iterations to get the thing right.
Marty

That might have been the "Spaceframe" (I think that's what they called it.) that was built by a couple guys, one being Scott Hutchison who drove it.

[ghickman]

Most don't know this but we actually did build 2 cars. The first iteration was about 40lbs heavy. We did about 10 FEA iterations on the frame to cut almost 45lbs out of the frame. We wanted to stay within 5 percent or so on the torsional strength as the original....learned a bunch from that.

Also put all 4 corners of the car on a diet. Car makes min weight now and seems very fast based on West Coast results.

[Christopher Crowe]

On any Chassis Number 1 it's very hard to guestimate a car's weight as you move forward. It would be so great to know where you should be (weight-wise) at each stage -- but this is tough data to get. I was told that the Citation FB chassis (steel only) weighed around 93 lbs. I was told that both the Piper and Citation "Spars" were in the neighborhood of 40+ pounds... so that's another potential ball-park target for a builder.

Boy, do I wish we had more "targets" as the process continues so we could more accurately monitor things. You can go through great pains to get certain things lighter... but if you're targeting well, you could avoid things like hyper-thin body panels, flimsy floor panels, etc.

Care to share some numbers, Gary? Steel chassis (welded) on the Edge? Weight of the body and floors, without wings and hardware? The Edge has no spar -- so that I guess that would be included in the chassis weight. What does the Edge weigh in at without the engine/trans unit? The four suspension corners -- happen to have weighed those?

Any help in any of these areas would be great. We'd LOVE to avoid having to build that Mark II chassis just to get down to weight!!

Chris

[brownslane]

I built the first car that Jeremy Hill took to the runoffs in FC in the late nineties...arguably the first FB built and raced? This car ran as an FC with a one-litre bike power. This car then went to a couple of owners in the states, Stig White being the last owner...I believe this car still holds a couple of lap records back east.

Jeremy's second car is a converted VD.

Hi first car was originally built as an F-4 by me...I built a series of these cars, then Jeremy converted it to one litre. Of note, it has returned to Canada last fall and will be running up here in CASC at Mosport. It was purpose-built as a bike-powered formula car and was optimized for that use.

Anyone building a competitive car from scratch has my respect; what a ton of work !

[Northwind]

My dad and I built a home built S-2000. Tube frame and full aluminum body work. I won a national with it in 1987 at BIR. Knowing it was going to be behind the competitive curve we named it the "Maggot". It fed on attrition. And that's exactly what it did when Ave and Doyle had mechanical problems during the race. I give credit to anyone that has built a roadracing car that has made full race distance. Face it we beat the living crap out of these machines on the track. If the car can make a full race weekend the builder did something right.

[ghickman]

Chris
As I recall the chassis on my car weighs 123 lbs.

My car does not seperate at the rear like most. The engine R & R from above. We felt having that connection at the rear just wasn't needed. The result is a super stiff chassis.

The body on my car is crazy light. Sub 45 lbs.

If your chassis weighs much over 140lbs you're probably going to be overweight.

The new 2012 Phoenix I'm currently building is simply going to be the lightest FB available... the frame weighs less than 100lbs. The packaging on this car is second to none making it even lighter.

[DanW]

John Buddenbaum built a front engined FF and ran it in SF Region for several seasons. I don't have any photos, but a friend of mine bought the carcass after it was wrecked.

John is a fine craftsman and holds several land speed records for streamlined motorcycles.

http://buddfab.net/

[Brian Utt]

[quote=Christopher Crowe;332522]
Is Cabir a real company or are those one-off creations?

To date I have delivered 32 Sport racers and 53 Formula cars to the US, England, and Asia.
So you can decide if it is a real company.
BTW, you forgot the r.

Brian Utt
Carbir Race Cars

[Christopher Crowe]

And sorry, Brian. I was away from the sport for a long time and didn't know Cabir's long history. That's a LOT OF CARS. Hell, as many as most marques out there -- the English ones included.

Sincerely sorry for my ignorance!

Chris (ex of CenDiv and Racine, by the way)

[John]

Before too long there will be a Carbir based FB on the west coast, so you can see for yourself.

Kevin Mitz has grafted a new back onto the the front of a Carbir FC car, and the chassis is way under 100 lbs. It is one chassis not a bolt on the back unit. We did it to keep it light and strong, and the Carbir FC was light to start with.

Cheers,

John

[Thomas Copeland]

Chris, when are we going to see the Tapacat on track?

I'm trying to keep track of all the F1000 cars and thinking of putting together a booklet of sorts with a history of each car in a publication as part of a the F1000 Pro Series. This would include any and all cars ever raced in F1000. I'll probably be contacting some of the manufacturers soon requesting info., brief history, pictures, etc.

Right now this is my list of F1000 cars to date:

Stohr
Phoenix
Philadelphia
Piper
Citation
Firman
Freeman
Gloria
Edge
Speads
Tapacat
Nova
Photon
SSR
Aztec

I miss any?

Can't wait to see the Carbir.

[Ananth K]

You guys forgot F500. No surprise there. I think F500 may be the only formula class where homebuilt cars not only exist, but have also prevailed from time to time.

[Brian Utt]

And sorry, Brian. I was away from the sport for a long time and didn't know Cabir's long history. That's a LOT OF CARS. Hell, as many as most marques out there -- the English ones included.

Sincerely sorry for my ignorance!

Chris (ex of CenDiv and Racine, by the way)

Chris
No problem as no offense taken.
I am probably the worst self promoter in the business.

I have been working on a web site for a while now and once it is completed it will have a registry that will show where are the cars have gone.

As for Johns FB car, I am really looking forward to see how it turns out. I do intend to do one of my own in the future but already have a new design S2 and FF under construction at this time and need to get them finished and tested before starting a new project.

Brian Utt
Carbir race Cars

[John]

Just a note, this is my third Carbir.

Brian has always been good to work with, helpful and has most everything you would need in stock.

Cheers

John

[Christopher Crowe]

Anyone have a photo of these machines?

Chris

[Mike Holland]

Sent Email to Chris

[avidflyr]

In the 70's there was a pro FF race series Held at Mosport Motorsport Park in Ontario, Canada and sponsored by "Bouliva Watches" A few of us Yanks went up there and found a very competitive series.
A one off car called the FERRET was raced by Canadian designer Aleck Purdy and John Scratch. They were a top 5 car with sponsorship from Castrol.
Mosport was a GP Course at that time and was a great track for FF.
Turn 2 was a left hand down hill ,off camber thriller. I got a wheel to wheel launch over the fence and in to the woods coming down that hill.
Sweeping turns, tight turns and a long up hill straigh good for drafting. One gear box change and you are ready for the Glen.

[R. Pare]

A one off car called the FERRET was raced by Canadian designer Alec Purdy and John Scratch.

Ferrets were/was not a one-off - more than one model, and more than one designer. You can get the history here :

http://ferretindustries.ca/ferretind...ssis/index.htm

[Christopher Crowe]

Get Mike to post a photo of this thing. A very sweet looking ex-D/SR FB car by Mike Devin, I think.

And there are more car builders out there than I thought. This is good!

[Mike Devins]

The SSR-1 started out life as a VD RF-98, there is long thread on the Sports Racer forum that followed it's build but most of the pictures have been dropped. The chassis is now being resurrected as an FB and will be on the track this year.

There is some history on the car here.
http://sports.racer.net/chassis/sirianni/index.html

[Mike Holland]

An old thread from when the DSR was under construction

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20863

[Bob Wheless]

Mike, I almost bought this ssr! Man it is a looker, I look forward to seeing it again!!! bob

[Mike Holland]

I think another DSR conversion from a Swift should also be considered as a One-Off. Any Photos to share?

[Mike Holland]

There is another F-1000 being built in Manhattan Ks. by SSR Engineering which is what Wikipedia is referencing. I have requested pictures and we will have to see.

[Brett Lane]

You guys forgot F500. No surprise there. I think F500 may be the only formula class where homebuilt cars not only exist, but have also prevailed from time to time.

Correct- Don´t forget Jim Elder and his father Pete. They´ve been known to build a few F500´s from scratch in their garage. Not exactly one-offs, but pretty close.