Here: http://www.scca.com/clubracing/news.cfm?cid=50899
Read their statement; it affects open wheel, as well.
CRB Statement on 2.5 Rule and Classes
Here: http://www.scca.com/clubracing/news.cfm?cid=50899
Read their statement; it affects open wheel, as well.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
Class consolidation pops up about every two years with turnover on the BoD. I've been hearing about this particular effort since mid December. The consensus seems to be 24 classes, but there are advocates for 16 classes and 20 classes. In any case, what I hear (and it seems to be born out by this advisory) is that the CRB will put two or three versions of the plan out at the Convention "for comment".
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Stan, what's your best guess for the 24? How about the 20 or the 16?
Ken
16...
Spec Miata
Super Spec Miata
Slightly Spec Miata
Stupendous Miata
Special Miata
Formula Miata
Formula Miata Enterprise
Formula Spec Miata
Miata Sports Racer
GT-Miata
GT-Miata Lite
Miata Production
Unlimited Miata
Limited Miata
Extreme Miata
Showroom Stock Miata
We should have better laughing emoticons. For now, I will just use this.Originally Posted by starkejt
-Nick
We should have better laughing emoticons. For now, I will just use this.
Like this?
Bob Stack, Hartland, WI
CenDiv - Milwaukee region
Never thought to use a gif! Well played, sir.Like this?
-Nick
THAT is some funny sh*t, Josh. I owe you a beer at the Runoffs.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
I will gladly take you up on that if I make it out there.
20
Late Model Miata
Miata Cup
Nationwide Miata
World of Outlaws Miata
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'Stay Hungry'
JK 1964-1996 #25
24...
Top Miata Fuel
Miata Modifieds
Drift Miata
Miata Legends
Five classes
Slow Tintop
Fast Tintop
Slow open wheel
Fast open wheel
Spec something
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
Alrighty then, with all 24 now set, lets go make Mike Rand a rich man. Lets see if he'll impersonate Bernie with all that Open Wheel power!
------------------
'Stay Hungry'
JK 1964-1996 #25
Ken, I don't think anything less than 24 stands a snowball's chance in hell. At the end of the day this is a member-driven club and that just won't fly. If I were to waive a magic wand to get down to 24, here's my fist look.
1. GT1
2. GT2
3. GTL (loses GT3)
4. STO
5. STU
6. STL
7. T1
8. T2 (loses T3)
9. SSB
10. B-Spec
11. EP
12. FP
13. HP
14. AS
15. SM
16. FA/B (includes FB with DSR engine rules @1050 lbs)
17. FC
18. FE
19. FF/5/6 (merges the two classes)
20. FV
21. FM
22. C/DSR (merges the classes)
23. S2
24. SRF
That's just quick & dirty. There may be better combos (like S2 in with C/DSR), but 24 is pretty doable.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Spec Racer Miata
Miata Sports Racers will get SIRs and additional ballast and be merged with Spec Racer Miata to get us back down to 24.
What's B-Spec?
It's a subset of SSC with springs, ARBs and a few other bolt-on upgrades. They're very popular in the rest of the world and have made a strong start in SCCA (you would know of them as an SSC car).
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
And B-Spec has manufacturer support/involvement.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
Really? I thought it was an open-source rules invention by MazdaSpeed & HPD (both north america only) and is not really based on any existing class/series. Do you have a source for the same rules being used elsewhere in ROW?
------------------
'Stay Hungry'
JK 1964-1996 #25
Tim, I should have said that the concept of a very cheap, entry level car with common sense, but strictly limited upgrades is very popular all over the world. "B-Spec" is SCCA's incarnation of the concept.
All the paddock lawyers happy now?
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Rest of (Racing) World
I have seen/read of announcements of B-Spec series from NASA, GrandAm, and World Challenge.
John Nesbitt
ex-Swift DB-1
In other words, it's GT-Sh!tbox.
Uh no...that title is already claimed by GT-Lites.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Can we agree to get rid of all the GT classes except GT1? We would also bring back the turbocharged 4 cylinders to GT1.
This makes no sense. The whole point of the 2.5 rule was to have some sort of logical process in place for keeping the classes in check. The classes below the 2.5 limit have the smallest numbers, resulting in the least number of people affected.
Instead, the CRB is going to decide who gets to race and who doesn't.
Look again. All the mergers and loses are among the weaker classes. After all, you can't merge GT2 and CSR just because they are next to each other in the final class standings for the year. You have to account for performance and technology similarities.
Class consolidation is always a perennial favorite among competitors...so long as it happens to someone else's class.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
Here's one way to get down to 20 classes...
1. GT1
2. GT2
3. GTL (loses GT3)
4. STO (AS goes into STO, or perhaps STU...)
5. STU
6. STL
7. T2 (T1 & T3 would reclassify into STO/U/L or SSB)
8. SSB
9. B-Spec
10. EP
11. FP
12. HP
13. SM
14. FA/B (includes FB with DSR engine rules @1050 lbs)
15. FC
16. FE/M (merges two already spec classes with minor perf. adj.)
17. FF/5/6 (rolls F500 and F600 into FF)
18. FV
19. C/DSR/S2 (merges them into a slightly revamped ASR rule set)
20. SRF
To get down to 16 classes you'd roll SSB and the three Prod classes into STU and STL.
*dusts off hands*
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
I think you have to find a way to keep FB and FA seperate, along with FF and F5/6.
Maybe moving S2 in with someone else makes better sense. Also, splitting GT2 into GT1 and/or GTL perhaps?
Stan, the point he was making was that the 2.5 rule weeded out the least popular classes, affecting fewer people. Instead of consolidating classes, undersubscribed classes lost their National status.Look again. All the mergers and loses are among the weaker classes. After all, you can't merge GT2 and CSR just because they are next to each other in the final class standings for the year. You have to account for performance and technology similarities.
Class consolidation is always a perennial favorite among competitors...so long as it happens to someone else's class.
That has been replaced with consolidation, which is stupid, plain and simple. It pisses off every class, instead of only the least popular.
In an effort to offend nobody, SCCA will wind up offending everyone.
Yes, this is a member-driven club, but which "members" are in favor of consolidation? SCCA leadership has to grow some balls, eliminate the least subscribed classes, and build from there.
It is? They fooled me.
The simple solution is to revamp the whole National program to focus it only on the most subscribed classes (top 10 max.) that will be invited to compete at the Runoffs. Everyone else can continue to run Regionals. That way nobody "loses" their class, but if you can't even muster a minimum of at least five cars per race, what is the point?
Matt King
FV19 Citation XTC-41
CenDiv-Milwaukee
KEEP THE KINK!
Mike is too tall.
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
No argument from me, Tom (and Michael), but the topic isn't "how do we impose the 2.5 rule". Instead, this time it's "how do we consolidate classes".
Again, no argument from me. The CRB's last effort to reduce the number of classes was to enforce the 2.5 rule. Fine...except that the BoD would not pull the trigger. Now they've tasked the CRB to come up with another plan, and this time it's consolidation.That has been replaced with consolidation, which is stupid, plain and simple. It pisses off every class, instead of only the least popular.
In an effort to offend nobody, SCCA will wind up offending everyone.
Yes, this is a member-driven club, but which "members" are in favor of consolidation? SCCA leadership has to grow some balls, eliminate the least subscribed classes, and build from there.
What do I think will actually happen? Nothing, or at least not much. This song has been playing for at least 30 years. I have copies of CRB papers from as far back as (IIRC) 1980, listing the CRB's "Number 1 Goal" as reducing the number of classes from 18 to 15.
Actually, I suspect that this time we will get some movement, though nothing like the dramatic reduction some would like to see happen. I suppose they'll merge C/DSR and maybe S2. They may even rejigger the ST/T/SS classes somewhat to reduce the class load by a few, but nothing dramatic.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
I have a simple question.
Why?
How does class elimination (let's call it what it is) benefit anyone? How does it improve anyone's weekend? The run groups will not change. What's the upside (given the huge downside)?
-Kyle
GT-****box #92 - BTW Stan - Feel free to stop by any time.
I like to freak out, but I think that we should at least wait and see what the plan is.
I did think that the 2.5 rule, as it was to be implemented, was pretty reasonable. It was also objective and gave the competitors something to shoot for in the lower subscribed classes. I know that in FB it encouraged participation, I would guess that it did in other classes.
Combining regional and national racing is not going to work. I think there are enough experienced racers on the BOD and CRB to know that.
I'll say. You guys should have been there when his mom deleted his World of Warcraft account.
Here is how I'd run if I were to become Bernie:
https://docs.google.com/present/edit...hfMGdrYnBiZmZq
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'Stay Hungry'
JK 1964-1996 #25
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