New F600 rules proposal

[John Nesbitt]

Obtuse? WTF?

I suspect that he meant "abstruse".

[Daryl DeArman]

The problem with F500s is that while they may be two-strokes, they are not cool sounding two-strokes. If you put a TZ750 engine in one with a gearbox, then we can talk about two-strokes.

In my opinion a tuned, albeit peaky, set of pipes and a gearbox would make all the difference in the world--sound-wise.

[Jim Nash]

Nathan,

I noticed you have mentioned an interest in designing a low cost fromula car. At $25K, would that be a roller? Not that it really matters. My main question is, how would you propose getting there? Something quirky (live axle, rubber suspension, really cheap spec. components (VW?)) would seem to have to be included in the formula to make such a large cost reduction from a FF other than the engine and gearbox.

Just curious.

Jim

[starkejt]

I suspect that he meant "abstruse".

I sure hope so.

[problemchild]

I knew you'd figure it out.

I guess "Citation Shrill" was taken.

[starkejt]

I guess "Citation Shrill" was taken.

Shill or shrill?

[Wren]

Shill or shrill?

Either way, that one is clueless enough to actually be kind of annoying.

No more new open wheel national classes.

[problemchild]

Either one works but I believe shill was the endearing term previously used.

[tedsimmons2]

I did mean abstruse not obtuse - sorry. Post has been edited.

[nulrich]

I noticed you have mentioned an interest in designing a low cost fromula car. At $25K, would that be a roller? Not that it really matters. My main question is, how would you propose getting there? Something quirky (live axle, rubber suspension, really cheap spec. components (VW?)) would seem to have to be included in the formula to make such a large cost reduction from a FF other than the engine and gearbox.

I believe I could design a $25k car ready to race, including engine. Using components that are already tooled and available cheaply is certainly important, but only part of designing a car specifically for mass production. It's not just using manufacturing methods like extrusions, castings, stamped parts, and so on, but being clever with the design. I have a lot of experience designing for high volume production (thousands to millions), and I can see a path to a very low cost car without much compromise in performance.

It would require some investment in tooling, but the biggest expense is working capital to purchase parts in large quantities. That requires an expectation of large sales volume, which means a healthy class with stable rules.

Another major cost reduction from FF is the elimination of a racing gearbox (check out new LD200 prices sometime) and using a low cost 600 cc motorcycle drivetrain.

I have a full plate, so it's not going to happen soon, but a very low-cost formula car is a long term goal of mine.

Nathan

[Jnovak]

Paddle Shifters - Kidding................................

Phil, actually 6 of the 600s built so far have our totally mechanical paddle shifter and it works great. The proposed rules allow for anything mechanical and NOTHING else.

Thanks ... Jay

[Phil Creighton]

Maybe we should start a new thread on the direction of the two classes, this is getting a little away from that and we are losing some good input and ideas. Id try to keep the engine question seperate from the wish list although I understand the wheelbase and 600 issue are connected

[Offcamber1]

Another major cost reduction from FF is the elimination of a racing gearbox (check out new LD200 prices sometime) and using a low cost 600 cc motorcycle drivetrain.
Nathan

This is one of the major attractions of the 600 class, IMO. I'm looking at getting back into FF, but powertrain component costs are a definite barrier. I know where there is at least three trashed 600 street bikes that could be suitable donors (helps to have a friend who races 600 bikes and falls down a lot.)

I don't think doing an equivelency with the F500 cars is worth bothering with since the drivetrains are so dissimilar. I would guess that if there is now a 2 second difference in lap times that within a few years parity will be achieved (or exceeded) by the 600 cars as more and more development takes place. Bike motors get better each year, even Harleys...

[jim murphy]

I don't think doing an equivelency with the F500 cars is worth bothering with since the drivetrains are so dissimilar. I would guess that if there is now a 2 second difference in lap times that within a few years parity will be achieved (or exceeded) by the 600 cars as more and more development takes place. Bike motors get better each year, even Harleys...[/quote]

As does snowmobile racing . . .
Remember that the F500 class has a new motor - a Rotax 593 (100 cc bigger), currently with IIR's. As the supply of 494's and 493's dries up more 593's will be racing and development on the 593 will eventually make it slightly faster even with the IIR's due to increased torque. Snowmobile racing (CVT & pipes) will never stand still either so there will be lap time improvements over time for the 2 strokes as well.

Jim
Member - F600 Committee
Been messing with these cars since 1982

[DragonR]

Hi all!
Is there any place I can find a sort of PDF set of regulations, even if it's still in progress?

[ken kaplowitz]

yes,in the GCR.it is now a class
ken kaplowitz

[Stan Clayton]

Hi all!
Is there any place I can find a sort of PDF set of regulations, even if it's still in progress?

Download the 2013 rules and look under the formula category for F500.

Link to rules: 2013 GCR

[DragonR]

Thakn you for the link!

[Stan Clayton]

Thakn you for the link!

You're welcome. I figured if you had to ask if there were rules, just telling you to look them up wasn't going to help much without a hint or better yet a link.

[DragonR]

I read the different threads and found several links to the rules. I was wondering which ones are the most recent and complete ones. Thanks again!

[Stan Clayton]

Go to www.scca.com -> Club Racing -> Cars and Rules -> scroll down to latest 2013 GCR version (updated monthly).

[DragonR]

Thanks Stan!

ps: Saw your cars at the racetrack. They're awesome!

[Stan Clayton]

Thanks Stan!

ps: Saw your cars at the racetrack. They're awesome!

Thank you...I'll pass your compliments to the crew.