Millers Oils Formula 1200 ChampionshipI understand that f1200 was part of the discussion at the CASC workshop. Were there any changes proposed/adopted that effect us?
I do know that Head/Neck restraints are now required.
Rule Changes?
I understand that f1200 was part of the discussion at the CASC workshop. Were there any changes proposed/adopted that effect us?
I do know that Head/Neck restraints are now required.
For F1200 specific changes, there is a new points format for FTDA championship. We are following the same format that OFFC uses. You could probably find the points breakdown on the casc or offc website somewhere
Shane Viccary
#27 Citation-Zink Z-16
Shane are we allowing the three drop system then as well? Three drop system didn't work out so well for me.
...but it did for us.Originally Posted by Bam Bam
Shane are we allowing the three drop system then as well? Three drop system didn't work out so well for me
Stephen Adams
RF92 Van Diemen FFord
1980 Lola T540 FFord
& the right guy won IMO....but it did for us.
Just wondering if the F1200 is going to use that system as well. It is not a bad format overall as there are 18 races with a 6 weekend schedule vs. a 14 race schedule in the OFFC over 7 weekends. Without looking at last years points I think the drop system would have helped me finish higher in the F1200 as a few DNF's on the last weekend made a big difference in the standings. The overall points are distributed differently as well so not really sure how it would have all played out. I am sure someone has already looked at it though to come up with this as the new system.
Last edited by Steve Bamford; 11.14.11 at 4:38 PM.
Before or after the drops?
Stephen Adams
RF92 Van Diemen FFord
1980 Lola T540 FFord
After of course.
Hopefully they don't allow someone to use a drop if they weren't at the races. Drops in my opinion should only be able to be used for DNF's or low points finishes or even a DNS if the person is entered & has paid for the event. I understand sometimes people can not make a weekend due to scheduling issues however the person who devotes their time to every race weekend should be rewarded.
Last edited by Steve Bamford; 11.14.11 at 4:48 PM.
Without the help of a lot of people, you, Greg and others, we wouldn't have won it.
Thanks Steve.
Stephen Adams
RF92 Van Diemen FFord
1980 Lola T540 FFord
Michael had two or three DNF's or low point finishes that were not driver related issues. The drop system makes sense as bad luck will strike us all from time to time & no matter how much pre race prep is done there are bound to be parts that cause us headaches from time to time.
Michael deserved to win based on his overall results.
the old F1200 points system if you didnt show up for a few races they didnt count as drops meaning you still had to drop 2 races in which you actually ran.
and thats the way it should be in my opinion. for instance i ran 3 weekends this year of the 9 races i ran i still should have incurred 2 drops in races i ran in.
so i think for fords and 1200 its going to be pretty similar, just the variance will be different
about 3 years ago the 1200 points had their own system
100, 88, 77, 70,..... and so on,
Andrew McMurray
London ON
aandrewwmc at hotmail dot com
OFFC was/is the same for points as the old system it seems, 100 for 1st, 88 for 2nd & so on as you listed Andrew. Sounds like that is what we are going back to based on what I read here.
Did the OFFC not give points for completing a race?
60% of the laps or more I believe you needed to complete to not get a DNF. Points were given right down to the 20th car.
Points for OFFC are listed here: http://www.offcseries.com/index.php?page=points-system
I like that system, as it gives those who show up, compete and support the series something to always look forward too.
As far as the drops go, we will use the same drops system as last year, allowing two drops, which will be used for any non-disqualified race. I kept track of the points this year any there were no position changes because of the drops. A couple were closer but no changes. I think there were only three or four guys that actually finished enough races to drop points.
Shane Viccary
#27 Citation-Zink Z-16
So you can use a DNF as a drop? Only if you get DQ'd you can not if I read that correct.
Also OFFC allows 3 drops on 14 races, so 2 out of 18 doesn't make sense if you are using the same point system as the OFFC. That is just my 2 cents.
As you said above only three or four guys actually finished enough races to be able to drop points, 3 drops would help vs. 2.
Last edited by Steve Bamford; 11.15.11 at 1:18 PM.
[FONT=Courier]I totally agree, in my opinion [FONT=Bookman Old Style][FONT=Courier]drops should be based on events that competitors enter & show-up. If you[/FONT] [FONT=Courier]crash or have a technical problem then it qualifies that race/week-end as a drop. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
J-Guy
as far as i understand, you cannot drop a DQ, a DQ is meant to be a penalty and should remain in your total count.
thats kind of tough to accept though if you've ran every race, had no DNF's or poor finishes and it takes a score off of you.
Andrew McMurray
London ON
aandrewwmc at hotmail dot com
Agreed if you do well all the time you get penalized however if you have some bad luck along the way it keeps you in the points hunt. All depends on how you have done if you are for or against it I guess.
We seem to be struggling with the concept.
Your best 16 scores count.
DSQs counts as zero.
If you start 18 races, 16 count.
If you start 17 races, 16 count.
If you start 16 races, 16 count.
If you start 15 races, 15 count...... I think you get the idea.
That is correct you can not drop a DQ, for the same reason as Andrew mentioned, it is meant to be a penalty.
There was some talk about just getting rid of drops all together. The club has always had a two drop system in recent memory. Currently, the rules read that drops can only be used if you enter every weekend. So if you only enter 5 weekends, no drops. This complicates things because someone who finishes well in all 18 races is forced to dump two finishes. This almost rewards the driver who does well in 15 races and skip a weekend. You also cant force people to drop two races of the races they compete in...you wouldnt want someone who enters one race weekend to only have one race scored
In my opinion, there shouldnt be drops at all, but if we must have them, i think this is the best version
Shane Viccary
#27 Citation-Zink Z-16
'07 was the first year we dropped scores, up to that point all scores counted.
We agreed on two, so you couldn't miss a complete weekend and still win the championship.
Personally, I would prefer to return to the old system too.
If you are going to have drops then it should be mandatory that everyone gets drops taken off them for races that are attend. Someone who shows up only one weekend a year is not in any points race so to your point Shane it should not mater.
Based on the way it is now I could pick the beat weekends for me & drop one to race some where else which doesn't make sense for guys who support our series.
Better to have no drops if this is the case.
I understand not everyone can make every race. Life comes first, this is a hobby, sport...
I still feel that having a system that rewards ALL those who race (or complete 60% of the laps) like the OFFC, would be very important.
We need to show that there is some type of reward system for those who do attend every race. No matter if the come in last.
My 2 cents.........
Think about this scenario.
You are leading the championship by 61 points with two races to go.
Mathematically you are the champion elect; no one can catch you as even if you DNF in both the remaining races and the second place driver in the championship wins them both, he can’t catch you.
But what happens if you get disqualified in one of those races, suddenly the situation changes. You score a zero and have to drop a good score. Now you might be caught. In those circumstances, it would make sense to sit out the final two rounds of the championship rather than risk a disqualification.
In the UK FV Championship in ’03, the top three all sat out the last race of championship, for exactly that reason. None of them could improve their position, but they could lose positions if they were disqualified. I was the fourth placed driver that year!
You guys must really play dirty over the pond if all three were worried about being DQ'd.
definitely pros and cons to both sides here.
the drops do make the final weekend a little difficult if a points race between 2 or 3 drivers is close...less than 30 points.
Guy what was the reasoning for bringing drops in '07? that was my first year so i was just used to it always being that way.
Andrew McMurray
London ON
aandrewwmc at hotmail dot com
It was more that they could not gain anything, but they could lose. And they saved an entry fee. Racing in the UK is a lot more expensive that here, and most of the races are one day, one race events.You guys must really play dirty over the pond if all three were worried about being DQ'd.
The dropped scores was brought in at the behest of Frank Steinhausen. He was defending champion in '06 but suffered a lot of bad luck that year.
I personally don't think that we would have a problem with this...of the top five drivers in this years championship, I really don't believe that any of them would sit out the end of the year if they couldn't move up/down in the points. Specifically, I think that Michael Iamundi had the championship wrapped up before the entire last weekend (drops or no drops) the last two, maybe three years in a row...he ran the last weekends.
Noel, on your point, I agree with you and that all finishing drivers should receive points...unless we get 25+ cars next year, that will be the case with the new points system. Definitely a good idea.
Shane Viccary
#27 Citation-Zink Z-16
Perhaps he hadn't thought about it.
In many of the US Championships they award a point for every car you beat.
For example: if the points go down to 10th, but you are 11th and 15 cars started you recieve 4 points. If you won you'd receieve an additional 14 points on top of the winners points (i.e. 44 points total, if the points system gives 30 for a win).
Every year is differnt...
Having drops do make a difference though as shown by the OFFC resluts for B Class this year. Michael Adams & I were neck & neck & it came down to the last race. Michael had a couple of issues throughout the season & I was able to finish every race fortunately. Whomever won the last race of year between the two of us would end up being the winner based on the drops. I was never able to finish ahead of Michael in a race he was able to complete but had won a few races when he wasn't able to finish.
I believe he was the deserving champion & the three drops did work the right way in this case. Michael made it to every race & competed each weekend, there was no weekends off. If it was only 2 drops then I would have ended up ahead.
I guess it is really hard to say whether the drops are fair or not until the season is over as Guy pointed out one instance where it didn't work. I for one would not sit out a race based on the scenario he listed above but maybe others would who knows till you are in that position.
So Guy,you were 4th and 3 frontrunners sat it out for the last race,how did you feel about that?Thats not racing or sportsmanship to my way of thinking,I would have been excited in 4th place heading into the last race only to find the top 3 drivers didnt turn up!!!!so my chance of moving up or whatever was gone.............they must have been Northeners
Steve, in that FF example, i would tend to think that you should deserve to win because of consistancy! Even though DNFs can come from mechanical and accidents (i know Michael had both), I personally think something should be said for finishing every race....the fastest driver is not necessarily the best driver IMO
Shane Viccary
#27 Citation-Zink Z-16
I think he did deserve to win personally & I enjoyed racing against him & seeing how close it ended up overall. I believe he only had one off in the rain (when approx. 90% of the field went off & could not continue) & one crash avoiding another competitor that was not his fault in the first weekend. A few other issues were mechanical bad luck that could happen to any of us. We both got better as we had more seat time along the way in the FF's, he was just able to keep the gap due to his talent.
My point really was that having drops or not having drops, it is not till the end of the year where someone can say whether it worked to their advantage or against them. The most important thing is everyone knows how the points work going into it which I believe you have defined well.
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