FE cars eliglble ?

[Purple Frog]

Now i know why Mrs Frog was feeding Cole all the time. But... i did think the bar tab was more than $1,400 per weekend. At least when Carly showed up we got out of the bars before 2 a.m.

[Zebra]

For me it's not about Dan, I like Dan, he makes things happen and I like anyone who makes things happen.

I just wish racing was about putting on a good show for the fans thereby having more fans allowing me/us to raise money thru sponsors. I tried finding sponsors for a run in A Daytona prototype, spoke to many potential sponsors who have a lot of race advertising experience they all told me they would pay for a NASCAR or possibly an INDY Car other than that they told me all the other series, Grand Am and ALMS, are worthless for sponsors and B to B opportunities they are not drawing significant fans or TV.

With all this professionalism, the cars and teams hide behind elaborate compounds and the drivers hide in their trailers. No mingling with the fans, no fan appreciation no chance of running into the drivers b4 during and after the race.

[Purple Frog]

i must admit. Like my hero King Richard Petty, Charles always presents himself outfront, available for the masses to mingle.

After further review... Charles is a better match for Nascar than Danica.

[Zebra]

We love to mingle and it is all about the fun. Why else would you want to live if your not having fun.

[Zebra]

The FatBoys with The German Staff car

[Zambo]

I'm not trying to poo on anybodies dreams here, I'm just trying to be realistic. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.

My father always told me when I was growing up that I should "**** in one hand and make wishes in the other to see which one fills up the fastest." This unfortunately for many, primarily the FE crowd, is exactly one of those situations.

First off, the USF2000 series has proven itself pretty lame duck. Second off, and in my eyes, the FE series has lost track of what it was intended to be. That being a cost effective, low development, spec series. Now those with stake in the cars, and rightfully so, are pushing to make it something different. I don't fault their desires or intentions, they are after all stakeholders in the FE philosophy, I just question the viability such a plan. Why put a square peg in a round hole when there's already a round peg in the round hole? I don't see where the FE car fits in.

Yes, defecating in one's hand may assist some but, I still don't think that the difference in weight will be made up through this method. Perhaps some thought should be given to other less messy weight reduction methods. History can not be changed however, we should accept some of the "givens" in the equation and move forward.

Guys there is no ladder! Either you can drive a race car or you can't, if you can than next question can you pay to buy an INDY car whether sponsor or your own money. This idea that poor kids can make a living at this is a LIE., blowing smoke, pipe dream. It is all about picking the pockets of daddies bank account or home equity and since no home equity kids are scarce.

You can do a great competitive campaign in F2000 Champ Series for $35,000.00 !!!

Plus $40,000.00 initial outlay for car which you get back at end of season You will be hard pressed to blow 5k per weekend all in with entry fee $900.00 and $1,500.00 in tires and JOHN WALKO RACING prepping and hauling $1,500.00. Hotel and airfare $1,000.00.

Now heading over to F2000 Championship Series to stir trouble with Atlantics

Charles FatBoy Finelli

All good points. Yes, racing cars is expensive. And, selling your car to go race a pinewood derby car is an option however, your comments about engine mapping and modified wings may be a tad wide of the mark. I would defer to someone with more areo knowledge than myself.

Your right but I can't drive as well as you on corded tires.

But this idea that you should be paying high entry fees is insane. It is as if they charge the clowns to come to the circus..

Every entry should be FREE WITH A REAL PAY OUT FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. We are arriving to the circus at a considerable cost already and to charge us to entertain the audience/Fans at an IRL / Grand Am / ALMS event is MADNESS We are getting F.....

Sticking it in the A.. of the drivers with large entry fee is indicative of the lack of interest and money in auto racing THE ROAD TO INDY is a LIE.

Charles FatBoy Finelli

Bringing clowns to one's pit may help some but, I don't think that addresses the spec gear ratio versus unlimited gear ration dilemma. Your consistent assessment that racing is expensive as well as "professional" racing is very expensive is right on the money. I humbly submit that with all factors being equal a sequential gearbox shifts faster than a standard H gearbox.

The series who gives the driver the most track time with the least cost with the most competitive drivers is the best training for a driver. THAT BY FAR is F2000 Champ Series don't let anyone say that F2000 is a bunch of Club guys. The young kids were hard pressed to beat a lot of the older drivers such as Tim Minor, Chris Fahan, John Dole, Rob Nichols.

Rand/Wright/Guibord are not getting rich giving us an event and applaud their effort to keep cost down by not giving my money to ALMS/Grand Am/IRL For no actual benefit. YES IT IS fun to be at an event with a FEW FANS rather than CRICKETS but then again there is NO INTEREST in prying money from sponsors for these event. Other than NASCAR and F1 and to a far less extent Indy there is ZERO interest in racing in this country and NO SPONSORSHIP money

Charles FatBoy Finelli

Yes, there can be some frailties associated with a sequential gearbox but, I still think it is faster.

Peter I tried to reply privately but could not figure it out on my IPad so please forgive me for my public response.

You are correct the market rules and I have no problem with it. Then again I hate to see a part of an industry destroyed due to miss management. If you think open wheel auto racing has prospered over the years then I can not convince you with my following observation. I think a large portion of the problem with open wheel and sports cars is the "professionalism" to the point where there is no fan driver team interaction nor any fan appreciation. A race is a show/circus like any other and you must please the audience big audience creates advertising interest. F1 not only has viewers they developed a cache where very wealthy people and corporations go to hob nob with others like them with a little B TO B Involved. IRL should be putting on a show from 8 in morning to sunset with race cars then an evening show with drivers included like the carnival at LeMans. Having 50 FF followed by 50FC followed by 30 Atlantics followed by 16 Indy lights followed by the main event isn't entertaining than nothing is AND that could easily be done without shaking down the drivers for entry fees. You make it free with cash from top to bottom you will have cars and a show and that is what it is all about not how "professional" we are BTW the track is not the ones asking for 60k to race with ALMS it IS ALMS

A new ECU, that is probable the best suggestion. Maybe a limit on the degrees of aero that one may use. Spot on! Good suggestion.

Charles and All,
For the record, each series has a lot to offer. They also both appeal to different demographics. Both series are very well run, as both Dan and Mike know what they are doing, and how to do it. Money rules all in life, and also in every form of racing. Spec or no spec, competitors will spend as much money as they want, either on whizzy bits, or on tons of testing.

We get it, you guys love the F2KCS series. There is a lot of things to love about it. Some people love the USF2000 series. There is also a lot to love there.

Can we go back to arguing about the Radon or Past Matt? I feel like that is a more productive way to call people names and ruffle feathers since Dan doesn't frequent this forum, and could probably care less about what a chubby lawyer from Long Island thinks.

Sorry Cole, I have nothing for you. Your comments are right on the money. I wish I had something better. 10K for a season? I'm gonna have to give you a call.

For me it's not about Dan, I like Dan, he makes things happen and I like anyone who makes things happen.

I just wish racing was about putting on a good show for the fans thereby having more fans allowing me/us to raise money thru sponsors. I tried finding sponsors for a run in A Daytona prototype, spoke to many potential sponsors who have a lot of race advertising experience they all told me they would pay for a NASCAR or possibly an INDY Car other than that they told me all the other series, Grand Am and ALMS, are worthless for sponsors and B to B opportunities they are not drawing significant fans or TV.

With all this professionalism, the cars and teams hide behind elaborate compounds and the drivers hide in their trailers. No mingling with the fans, no fan appreciation no chance of running into the drivers b4 during and after the race.

World peace is right around the corner. I just don't know what that has to do with the multiple wizzy bits that a FC has and a FE does not.

(Just so we are all clear, I thought we were talking about the attempt to equate competition between FC's and FE's. While lamenting about a ladder system, who does or doesn't do whatever and the relative cost of racing are excellent discussions, they appear to be wide of the mark in this thread. Perhaps a new thread could be started on those issues.)

[iamuwere]

Since the national class USF2000 series has defined aero bits and defined limited/fixed gear choices, it will make equalization hopefully easier. They are effectively spec FC cars currently.

[iamuwere]

I can't believe I just became a part of this conversation....too late now.

[Cole Morgan]

Does anyone know where I can get a USF2000 avatar? I've always been a real trend setter, just thinking I could start a new fad.

[starkejt]

and ye shall receive.

[Cole Morgan]

Awesome. Thanks.

[starkejt]

NP, would be better if it were transparent rather than white on the edges, but I just resized the one from Twitter.

[Cole Morgan]

For the record. I love the F2KCS and USF2000 Series equally. Great group of people involved in both.

[starkejt]

Because the nasty white edges offend me, this one should be transparent in the corners.

[KevinFirlein]

obviously when I started this thread I should have been prepared for it to go all over the map like every other apex thread does. although I gotta admit I wasnt expecting the sponsorship debate about Grand Am and ALMS but thats the way the apexspeed ball bounces. For the record you can do business in any series. SCCA club racing isnt a hot bed of B 2 B deals either yet I managed t pocket 30K from Spies Hecker and then again from Sherwin Williams based on non family B 2 B deals done in the club racing world so it surely can be done in Grand Am or ALMS as well.

However back to the original topic. When I posted this I thought it was just a lame gimic to try and boost bad entry numbers. But after thinking about it , and knowing neither the FC or FE guys are ever really gonna be happy with what ever equalization is done, I would scrap the zetec f2000 cars out of the series all together and just run the FE cars in the B class.

I still think its just a numbers game but it makes more sense that way and it keeps it all Mazda badges on the motors and that keeps your biggest client happy. It looks like to start the season the USF2000 cars will number in the plus or minus 20 area by themselves. Frankly at that point the FE cars will really just be in the way. ( not an insult of the car or its drivers so dont shoot the messenger !) You'll have proffesional teams and young drivers all out for blood chasing after a $350k carrot. they will not be happy dealing with slower cars in qualifying , races whatever. Not the FE guys fault just life in the big city. However as soon as the second weekend is over you'll see f2000 drivers dropping out as they realise they cant win the title. Happens in every junior formula that has a scholarship at the end of it.

thats where the FE guys will really come into play as they will keep the overall numbers up. They wont be has huge as they are at the start obviously with both classes but you wont have to worry about trying to explain why your 12 car race is really the best thing going.

Long story short, axe the zetec cars as there really has only been 2 guys that have supported the B series and give it to the FE cars. The FE drivers will then have to decide if the cost / hassle/ track time / fun ratio is correct for them or not. But we all make that decision with every race we chose to go to anyways.

[ric baribeault]

Past.....who?

Tom, how about a F1600?