and they like us! lord knows why, but they do!Originally Posted by Zebra
and they like us! lord knows why, but they do!
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Quench your thirst? Let's not underestimate the power of Allsport, North America's only full body quenching sports drink.
Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
Having the track to ourselves
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.
HD Thoreau
Kinda like looking at those big empty, cold grandstands.
Road to Indy is paved with car count not professionalism
A. the "road to indy" is a toll road
B. with the advent of the new cars, it's also a "road to nowhere"
who would actually want to be seen driving that monstrosity?
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
News flash! Racing can be expensive!!
Far be it from me to be too pious with comments (as I am as guilty as anyone else from going astray in my comments) but, I believe I missed the thread jacking here where the topic of FE being eligible for the Pro Series changed to:
1) SM is taking over the world; to
2) the lamentation of all that is open wheel will take us to hell in a hand basket; to
3) FB is Satan's machine; to
4) Indy car is Satan's machine; to
5) Daytona Prototype is expensive; to
6) I like Atlantic if it is cheap; to
7) Allsport is the drink of some; to
8) the Road to Indy is expensive; and now to
9) I don't like that Road that Indy has anyway.
How about re-focusing on how the FE will be equalized with the cars currently in the series. I know this idea is WAY off the topic of this threadbut, if everyone else is hijacking the thread, I should as well.
Zambo
Thank you
As a prospective FE owner, Thank you Zambo!
JM
plain and simple, they can't be. You guys will be relegated to perma-backmarkers aka field fillers and you're gonna pay dearly for that pleasure.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
better? oh yeah, Drink All Sport.
(they help pay the racing bills)
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Focus the thread!!!!
Are you kidding me?
It's only one or two more posts away from name calling and jokes involving mothers and sisters....
LJS Motorsports
knowing brendan, that's probably already started via pm
yo mama so fat......Are you kidding me?
It's only one or two more posts away from name calling and jokes involving mothers and sisters....
&
RIC check your pm
how do you propose that the FE cars aero is equalized? How about sealed basic shocks VS fancy FC shocks? sequential 5 speed tranny vs 4 speed H pattern?
the two cars go fast in different ways. truly equalizing them isn't going to happen. Even if they got them doing the exact same lap times, they aren't going to be "equal".
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Solution would be to allow them to come racing with us in their own class. They would need a guaranteed 15 car count b4 Rand Wright Guibord would consider
That was exactly
my question .....
BTW - I s&^% on pretty much any thing that isn't a purpose built racecar and I would turn down any paid F1 ride unless it was in a BT55FE vs FC = Different
First thing is that I admit I haven't compared the specifical mechanical layout and diffrences of the VD chassis used in FE vs that produced for FC and or the technical rules defining the "National F2000" package for FC or the yet to be anounced FE format.
However, looking at a current FC chassis next to a FE the visual diffrences are significant.
Just the windage presented between the two is significan, let alone the atvantages available in FC AM aero offerings.
A full-on FC chassis w/ a Zetec is a pretty formitable race car......
We (I) really need to understand the rules package. And yes chassis #10 is good as new for a FE currently eligable for SCCA.
It would be nice to get some feed back from the meeting at PRI.
LJS Motorsports
HP baby
great it will be just like MIXED CLASS CLUB RACING. Some idiot in an overpowered car goes buzzing down the straights and tiptoes through corners and the only way to get around him is dive bomb the **** out of him and hope you do it on one of the 2 times a race he uses his mirrors.HP baby
just turn up the power. great. wonderful. terrific.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
just to clarify, i'm pretty sure zebra is talking about atlantics and an atlantic series in thier own group.
NO MIXED CLASS RACING (unless we're talking sports cars)!!!!!!!!
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Uh huh
It is what it is and it will be what it will be......
Totally agree on the challenges of making two very different cars equal. Maybe it makes sense to have different classes vs. equalization for the early season races?
I also agree that mixed class racing is not nearly as much fun as single run. Having said that, I am still excited about 2012. Having the USF2000 crowd with the FE thrown in is not the same as getting rubbed on by slow CSR and DSR cruisers.
My most expensive wreck was caused by an experienced, past top dog not using his mirrors. Every race group can have squirrels, I'm probably one of the most erratic nuts in the PRO FE series. I do, however, know how to use my mirrors. Video to prove it, me waving frantically, a blur of Atlantic color, all is well.
If I see this right, the reason FE is here is to increase the whole pie. The big difference in costs should enable many more kart kids with smaller budgets to see if they can make it. Quite frankly, if a kid in a National car cannot beat a kid in an FE, the family can focus on a different career path.
As far as the FE, add a rear diffuser, larger gurney tabs, 10hp more. Or leave it just the way it is. I really do not care as long as we run the same thing.
Looking forward to getting to know the USF teams. See you in Febuary.
Later,
TK FE 3
Far be it from me to be too pious with comments (as I am as guilty as anyone else from going astray in my comments) but, I believe I missed the thread jacking here where the topic of FE being eligible for the Pro Series changed to:
1) SM is taking over the world; to
2) the lamentation of all that is open wheel will take us to hell in a hand basket; to
3) FB is Satan's machine; to
4) Indy car is Satan's machine; to
5) Daytona Prototype is expensive; to
6) I like Atlantic if it is cheap; to
7) Allsport is the drink of some; to
8) the Road to Indy is expensive; and now to
9) I don't like that Road that Indy has anyway.
How about re-focusing on how the FE will be equalized with the cars currently in the series. I know this idea is WAY off the topic of this thread
Zambo
Plain and simple.
Has anyone thought the FE cars will be blended in and in a year or two, there wont be any more F2000/FC in USF2000 National Class (not Mazda powered).
Building parity across the two cars is going to be almost impossible. Are they going to freeze the FC development or are they going to open the FE development? Otherwise, you're working against a moving target. If you want parity, start by putting your foil hat on and joining hands for a good dance or two around the camp fire. You are also dreaming if you think Dan Anderson gives two craps about finding parity. The motives are clear, fill the field, gain some entry money, and hopefully get guys to switch over to his class. The best part is that the cost to run your FE car in a 'pro' event is going to sky rocket while your track time will decrease. There's nothing like being paddocked 2 miles away from the grid so that you can check out all those sweet looking indycars on your a 30 minute journey to the hot pit.
Like I said... foil hats.
Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
Holiday spirit!
Wow! The level of hate on anything not FC or series not Mike's F2000/1600 Championship is pretty high. Come on. Where's the holiday spirit! Where's the good will to fellow racer-man hooha ?????
I will give a lot of credit to the high level of organization, technical oversight and communication going on with the F20/16 series. Heck even the now socialy outcasted equipment running in the F1000 series and yet to be s&*% on F1200 series is averaging a better post / day ratio then the USF2000 series. I looked at the "other" series web site last night and not too many stockings were hung with care. No real info other then an invitation to write a check....is there a 2012 schedule finalized? I know...check first, e-mail list second.
I (sound of hitting my foil caped head) could-a'had a Zetec continental
LJS Motorsports
I'm not trying to poo on anybodies dreams here, I'm just trying to be realistic. I have nothing to gain or lose either way.
My father always told me when I was growing up that I should "**** in one hand and make wishes in the other to see which one fills up the fastest." This unfortunately for many, primarily the FE crowd, is exactly one of those situations.
First off, the USF2000 series has proven itself pretty lame duck. Second off, and in my eyes, the FE series has lost track of what it was intended to be. That being a cost effective, low development, spec series. Now those with stake in the cars, and rightfully so, are pushing to make it something different. I don't fault their desires or intentions, they are after all stakeholders in the FE philosophy, I just question the viability such a plan. Why put a square peg in a round hole when there's already a round peg in the round hole? I don't see where the FE car fits in.
Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
I am a little surprised the SCCA bought into this. I imagine they are getting desperate with the FE class and hope that exposure with IRL will launch more people into buying the chassis.
I think that USF2000 got the better deal out of this. They just want more cars to fill their awful fields. First it was just VDs with Mazda engines...that didn't give enough car counts, so they let in SCCA Compliant F2000s with Zetecs....that didn't give enough car counts, so now they are letting in FEs as well.
Hang on! In which hand were you ****ing? I'm gonna think twice before I shake your hand next time I see you...
"I love the smell of race fuel in the morning. It smells like victory!"
Barry Wilcock
Pit Crew: Tumenas Motorsports/Houndspeed, Fat Boy Racing
I'm with ya!
We gots-ta get back to basics.....
FV / Carts etc - Teach ya how to race (i.e. don't really count- I appologize now)
F1600 - Little more power. Teach you about mechanical grip. Some engineering
F2000 - Little more power, little more grip, little more engineeering
FA - your on yur way!
Everything else is just nippin at the heels and taking a bite out of the open wheel trinity!
What you need is a "SPEC" parallel universe........
For me it's all about a plan and I don't see or hear about it. If USF2000 was serious about making a go of a ladder system, dump the Zetec / Pinto national cars (they already have a pro opotion to participate in) for the FE's and support the S#*& out of it. Market it as a stepping stone to some more engineering required along with oval racing future.
Now....where's my Reynolds Wrap at?
LJS Motorsports
Just read Dan Andersons latest update. Looks like common sense approach to series.
As far as the future, the FE makes more sense as the first car in the path to Indy. SPEC works. The FE had big problems with the gearbox internals back in 05-06. I believe 40+ orders were cancelled. We had close to or more than 40 cars in one race prior.
Picture this, you are the Adult, with child that has a hot foot. Doesn't it seem more likely that you would write a check for 60-70K to see if your kid had it than to write a much bigger check for the privilage of using a car with more downforce and smaller side-pods? What does it cost to run a National class car in USF2000? Is the championship class 200k for the season?
I believe we will be hit and miss in 2012. I also believe that the FE numbers will explode in 2013 which will result in more Championship class cars in the years to come.
As far as the expense to run in this series, we will see after a year if it is worth it. If it turns into young-kids-crash-yellow-green 1 lap- crash-yellow-checker, then I will not be back. My limited experience with the young guns has actually been positive.
Looking forward to racing instead of blogging.
Happy holidays,
TK
"Just because your in a faster car doesn't mean your faster!!!"
Chris L........love your dads sayings...if nothing else he can sure raise a race car driver....lol
Road - to - Indy.....2010 USF Champ Karam, up one rung on the ladder to Pro Mazda in 2011, no doubt with his winning prize in USF 2000, finishing 5th......2010 F2000 Champ Carbon, jumps 2 rungs to Indy Lights in 2011 and finishes 6th.
Seems you can get up the ladder from either series, why take the expensive route.
Both series have talent, which is great....deep pockets are even better.
I own an FE and I am struggling with the new series on many levels...travel distance, license cost, entry fee increase, tire cost to name a few.
Another experience I have had is replacing an FC Zetec @ $4,500 and replacing an FE Mazda @ $8,000.
Bruce Work
Work Racing
Guys there is no ladder! Either you can drive a race car or you can't, if you can than next question can you pay to buy an INDY car whether sponsor or your own money. This idea that poor kids can make a living at this is a LIE., blowing smoke, pipe dream. It is all about picking the pockets of daddies bank account or home equity and since no home equity kids are scarce.
You can do a great competitive campaign in F2000 Champ Series for $35,000.00 !!!
Plus $40,000.00 initial outlay for car which you get back at end of season You will be hard pressed to blow 5k per weekend all in with entry fee $900.00 and $1,500.00 in tires and JOHN WALKO RACING prepping and hauling $1,500.00. Hotel and airfare $1,000.00.
Now heading over to F2000 Championship Series to stir trouble with Atlantics
Charles FatBoy Finelli
I did an entire season for $10,000, so your number is a little high Charles.
It's 8000 in just entry fees and registration for F2000 and about 15000 just for entry fees and registration in USf2000. That doesn't inlcude gas, tires, transport etc.
No way can a season be done for 10K.
cost
WOW, I want to race with Cole. That is 14 races, 42 tires, car prep, track support, fuel, travel, entry fee, car repairs, hotel. Not to mention testing costs That is $10,000/14 races = $1,428.00 per wk-end. Sign us up for the season.
Your right but I can't drive as well as you on corded tires.
But this idea that you should be paying high entry fees is insane. It is as if they charge the clowns to come to the circus..
Every entry should be FREE WITH A REAL PAY OUT FROM TOP TO BOTTOM. We are arriving to the circus at a considerable cost already and to charge us to entertain the audience/Fans at an IRL / Grand Am / ALMS event is MADNESS We are getting F.....
Sticking it in the A.. of the drivers with large entry fee is indicative of the lack of interest and money in auto racing THE ROAD TO INDY is a LIE.
Charles FatBoy Finelli
The series who gives the driver the most track time with the least cost with the most competitive drivers is the best training for a driver. THAT BY FAR is F2000 Champ Series don't let anyone say that F2000 is a bunch of Club guys. The young kids were hard pressed to beat a lot of the older drivers such as Tim Minor, Chris Fahan, John Dole, Rob Nichols.
Rand/Wright/Guibord are not getting rich giving us an event and applaud their effort to keep cost down by not giving my money to ALMS/Grand Am/IRL For no actual benefit. YES IT IS fun to be at an event with a FEW FANS rather than CRICKETS but then again there is NO INTEREST in prying money from sponsors for these event. Other than NASCAR and F1 and to a far less extent Indy there is ZERO interest in racing in this country and NO SPONSORSHIP money
Charles FatBoy Finelli
chaz
very entertaining
Cheers
Len
Porsche River Oaks. Houston
Peter I tried to reply privately but could not figure it out on my IPad so please forgive me for my public response.
You are correct the market rules and I have no problem with it. Then again I hate to see a part of an industry destroyed due to miss management. If you think open wheel auto racing has prospered over the years then I can not convince you with my following observation. I think a large portion of the problem with open wheel and sports cars is the "professionalism" to the point where there is no fan driver team interaction nor any fan appreciation. A race is a show/circus like any other and you must please the audience big audience creates advertising interest. F1 not only has viewers they developed a cache where very wealthy people and corporations go to hob nob with others like them with a little B TO B Involved. IRL should be putting on a show from 8 in morning to sunset with race cars then an evening show with drivers included like the carnival at LeMans. Having 50 FF followed by 50FC followed by 30 Atlantics followed by 16 Indy lights followed by the main event isn't entertaining than nothing is AND that could easily be done without shaking down the drivers for entry fees. You make it free with cash from top to bottom you will have cars and a show and that is what it is all about not how "professional" we are BTW the track is not the ones asking for 60k to race with ALMS it IS ALMS
That leaves $2,000. It can be done. You just have to know how to budget.
We only did Series test days on old tires, and we didn't eat much either. It's all about knowing where to cut costs.
Just get the car to the track aligned and ready to go and let the driver do the rest keep all the expensive "professionalism" behind.
Charles and All,
For the record, each series has a lot to offer. They also both appeal to different demographics. Both series are very well run, as both Dan and Mike know what they are doing, and how to do it. Money rules all in life, and also in every form of racing. Spec or no spec, competitors will spend as much money as they want, either on wizzy bits, or on tons of testing.
We get it, you guys love the F2KCS series. There is a lot of things to love about it. Some people love the USF2000 series. There is also a lot to love there.
Can we go back to arguing about the Radon or Past Matt? I feel like that is a more productive way to call people names and ruffle feathers since Dan doesn't frequent this forum, and could probably care less about what a chubby lawyer from Long Island thinks.
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