I just read on EformulaCar news that SCCA FE cars are now running in the national class. Seems a curious decision. Should at least up car counts.
FE cars eliglble ?
I just read on EformulaCar news that SCCA FE cars are now running in the national class. Seems a curious decision. Should at least up car counts.
Kevin Firlein Autosport,Inc.
Runoffs 1 Gold 3 Silver 3 bronze, 8 Divisional , 6 Regional Champs , 3x Drivers of the year awards
WTF
Interesting. I knew something was brewing but this was unexpected. Might as well kill the FE Pro series, kill the National FC class, and just put the FEs in there instead as their own class. Long as costs stay down......
It'll up the car counts, that's for sure.
How is an FE competitive with an FC??
http://www.eformulacarnews.com/news_info.php?n=10107
Runoffs qualifying:Originally Posted by reidhazelton
Pole FC - 2:10.989 - about 5 cars in the 1st second
Pole FE - 2:13.071 - about 4 cars in the 1st second
This is probably the best absolute comparison. Looks like about 2.2 seconds. They will have to do something to up the competitive position of the FE.
I think this is a good idea if they can do a bit to equalize the cars.
Jay Novak
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Not is it competitive, but how can it be? And if you up the FE it is not really a spec FE then. This is strange to me.
On another note, why is there a million "Pro" series for every class?
"professional" series huh? mixed fields are crap. #roadtonowhere
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
The article says there will be some equalization. i would think tires would be a start, which will take some of that time difference away.
Ken
It is a Mazda engine, fits their model within Road to Indy.....
I agree though, not sure why it would be united with the F2000 series and run in the same race, let alone be tagged "F2000 National Class"???
-Nick
because they need field fillers
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
still needs a diffuser
FE cars eliglble ?
The FE cars are to be eliglble to run in USF2000 National class, not in the SCCA national class. I think there is a misunderstanding here.
i think ric mean they need a diffuser if they want to even think about being able to see the back of the field
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Keep in mind those are Road America times where the aero profile is huge. On shorter/tighter tracks, the FE's are typically just as fast as FCs. I'm not too thrilled about the announcement, but it doesn't really matter to me much since we'll most likely never do the "pro" series because of the travel involved. I just think that having other series to further dilute the fields can't help car counts at any given event.
2003 VanDiemen FSCCA #29
Follow me on Twitter @KeithCarter74
Keith, this doesn't dilute much, since the people doing the Pro Series (Pro FE) this year are still planning to do the Pro Series (USF2000) next year. The only convert that I know of was Jason Wolfe going to USF2000 Championship class from FE, but he was doing that prior to this announcement anyway.
I have no desire to go to running SCCA events anymore with the amount of travel and limited track time available for the money. My travel was not any different in the Pro series than it was in when I was trying to do well at Runoffs. (Except I didn't spent 6 or 10 days up in the rain in Wisconsin).
jim
No misunderstanding. The USF2000 Series has two classes, the CHP Class (Championship) which runs the Mazda MZR motor, and some spec stuff including shocks, gear sets and wings. Then there is the NAT Class (National) which is open to all current FC or those running in the F2000 CS with the Zetec or Pinto motor.
-Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPalacioM3
I agree though, not sure why it would be united with the F2000 series and run in the same race, let alone be tagged "F2000 National Class"???
This quote is what I was referring to in my 1st post, it is USF2000 national class, not F2000.
I realize I don't drive a formula car so maybe I'm missing something, but it appears this is ONLY for the USF2000 Series. I'm not sure why they continue to use the term "National class" but there's no way FE & FC will be combined in SCCA Club Racing.
And that national class award is (or was) a MZR engine, one that would go into a Elan (VanDieman) chassis so that you could compete in the Championship class the following season. Winning this in your FE, which seems unlikely, would mean you would have a fairly worthless motor (or a new motor and no chassis). Especially considering there is probably less than 15 MZR power Elans in North America. This isn't in any way a positive for FE owners, at least that I can see. The entry fees (high) and amount of track time (low) in the USF2000 series are also negatives.
Then again, I don't understand why the FE Pro series exists either.
Chris Livengood, enjoying underpriced ferrous whizzy bits that I hacked out in my tool shed since 1999.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NPalacioM3
I agree though, not sure why it would be united with the F2000 series and run in the same race, let alone be tagged "F2000 National Class"???
This quote is what I was referring to in my 1st post, it is USF2000 national class, not F2000.
F2000 is a "pro" series designation, not SCCA Club Racing where we call it FC. Nobody ever said this had anything to do with SCCA Club racing, which would be the National class you are referring to. They are two different things, sorry I left out the US part in my first response, most people knew which series I was referring to.
-Nick
A few things to consider:
This year in the National class of the USF2000, I can only remember seeing a handful of Zetec powered F2000/FC.
Yes there will need to be some things done to make the cars competitive against one another. Only one can speculate here: Tires, trays, etc.
FE cars are reliable in their own ways and the announcement allows SCCA Enterprises more exposure. Name one other winged formula where an engine can go 40+ weekends and be within 1 HP of a new one. (Only reason I say winged here is Im not certain the motor life in FV).
The FE class is a loyal following. 120 cars and we were inside the Top 10 in National Participation. Remember at one point the F2000 series had 10-15 cars in its Pro Series......
My personal opinion is this is great news for FE and the series. I have driven both cars and they are equally as fun. Time to attract a younger crowd (no offense) and give FE the events it deserves.
I bought my wee FE in late 04. Shifted over from EP because I chose the wrong car and had no chance to compete with the ever flat-footed green pedal. We put it on the dyno early this year at VIR. Within 1 hp of the fastest car in 2010. No excuses about not having this bit or that, he just flat out was faster. He was also 15.
I am clueless about many things. Educate me on this. What is the USF2000 National class cars signficant difference? What can you do (spend) that makes them faster than others? Or are they relatively equal no matter what you do? I read about the efforts to keep costs down in the Championship class.
I will spend the money for a rear diffuser if it helps equalze the cars. Looking forward to meeting a new group of racers. We will have a large time no matter "growing pains" inevitable in a new deal like this.
Oh, about the engine, original, second log book, 40+ WEEKENDS not just 40 races and still within the window.
Happy Trails,
Tilden Kinlaw FE #3
FE vs FC = Different
First thing is that I admit I haven't compared the specifical mechanical layout and diffrences of the VD chassis used in FE vs that produced for FC and or the technical rules defining the "National F2000" package for FC or the yet to be anounced FE format.
However, looking at a current FC chassis next to a FE the visual diffrences are significant.
Just the windage presented between the two is significan, let alone the atvantages available in FC AM aero offerings.
A full-on FC chassis w/ a Zetec is a pretty formitable race car......
We (I) really need to understand the rules package. And yes chassis #10 is good as new for a FE currently eligable for SCCA.
It would be nice to get some feed back from the meeting at PRI.
Still waiting to see what wizzy new bits end up under the tree.
LJS Motorsports
An FE is so much larger than a typical FC that if all things equal: hp, min weight and driver I can't see how they'd be competitive.
Last edited by JohnPaul; 11.20.11 at 11:06 PM.
I would expect 2012 to be a "feeling out" year for the FE cars in the USF2000 Series. I'm sure they will want our (FE) cars to be the same 3 seconds slower (like the FC cars currently are) than the Championship cars. Once that is achieved, I would expect 2013 to be all Mazda (USF2000 Championship cars and FE cars). FC would still have a Pro Series (Rand Series), but probably would no longer run with USF2000. Just my opinion, but it does make sense for Mazda.
I was not real excited about the venues, etc. for the FE Pro Series the last two years and couldn't get any of my guys to run, especially when we had great turnouts at the CenDiv Nationals and mainly ran with FF, which was a great fit for us. I do hope to have some cars at the new series, however, especially with the weekends we'll be running. At this time there is only one conflict with the CenDiv National schedule and that is the August race at Blackhawk (75 miles from my shop).
Competition One Racing
racer6@mchsi.com
But MidOhio versus Blackhawk? Not that far of a drive, right?
JP, the competitiveness seems to vary a good bit track to track. I think slower, tighter street courses could favor the extra torque of the FE over the aero of the FC. But, this will all come down to the mapping and other changes possibly allowed. Testing in the next weeks will really help clarify things.
jim
One hour versus ten hours! We'll cover both if we have to.
Competition One Racing
racer6@mchsi.com
In the scheme of life, what is a mere 18 hours, right????
Maybe the FE cars should have been part of the Mazda ladder to begin with instead of creating another "Pro" F2000 series. Since the FE is a truly spec car, it could go from club to pro and pro to club with no changes at all. The USF2000 series probably would have done better out of the gate if it were FE from the beginning...
pure speculation, but perhaps they're gonna change up cars to all FEs in a season or two. Tthere aren't all that many mazda powered F2000 cars in existence anyway.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Conspiracy Theory
I'm beginning to wonder:
F1600CS (FF)
F2000CS (FC)
FE Pro / USF2000 (FE)
FCC (FM)
F1000CS (FB)
Might the only F classes left in SCCA Nat w/i a few years be F5/FV/FA?
No conspiracy. I think this needs to be the wake up call to the powers that be. The troops are getting restless. We are not happy with the status quo. There are other options. Some regions will say "good riddance" like the DC region so they can have seventeen different versions of SM with each their own run group...
hey!
our dc sm population is not going to get different run groups by changing the versions....
it will be by color.... similar to karate belts.
white for beginner group, black for fastest group. as you get better qual times, you repaint you car and move up a group, or, stay as big fish in little pond with slower cars that you can beat
Its a shame that with dwindling home equity lines that we have such a cluster f... of similar cars. The game should be cheap reliable un-winged cars such as the new FF1600 and a cheap reliable winged version for those of us who want to impress our friends with a car that does not look like a go cart. Then the FA class for real rich show offs (why Pro Mazda was developed when you have FA once again is beyond me and the FA cars are sooo beautiful Pro Mazda NOT)
Unfortunately we have 2 winged cars that are very similar the FE and FC (why the FE was created is, once again, beyond me but it does exist in quantity that can not be ignored) and now we have a new bastard car being developed for no good reason further splintering an already dwindling field of people who can afford the hobby. There are a few kids each year coming thru with dreams of, hmm, what i do not know but let them dream then there are us who want good hard racing lots of track time for the least amount of money that means cheap entry fee and cheap and restricted tires. Right now Rand/Wright/Guibord F2000 Championship has a 6 tire weekend and a $995.00 entry fee. Can't get much cheaper than that.
Charles FatBoy Finelli
we have 3. You forgot FB, the motorcycle engine powered continentals. there is another bit of stupidity.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
allow me to ad, it's all meaningless now anyway, who the hell would want to actually drive the retarded looking new indycar
(seen here)
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49389
i think nascar sucks, but I'd handsdown choose to race a "redneck tank" over the new indycar
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Best thing I heard is that Atlantic Cars are going to be Part of the F2000 Championship Series. There were 16 Atlantics at a National recently. 30 FC's, 25 FF's, 15-20 Atlantics would be pretty cool. And if the F2000 Series doesn't waste our entry fees by giving it to ALMS/IRL/Grand Am maybe we could lower the entry fee to below $500.00.
I have realized, after my attempt buying Daytona Prototype and doing 24 hours of Daytona, that no one wants to advertise in those events AND after attending those events as a driver in F2000 no one really shows up. So lets have the tracks to ourselves with LOTS of track time!!!!!!!!!
Though I would love to be part of the F1 Montreal Event, Hmmm maybe Bernie could be persuaded. Yee Haa
Charles FatBoy Finelli
if mike al and bob did an atlantic series, i'd seriously considering getting an atlantic. ESPECIALLY if there was a reliable engine engine for the class, a la zetec in FC.
BTW. Charles the Austin F1 race is supposedly officially back on, we gotta call you know who, at you know where, to talk about you know what.
That reminds me, I'm thirsty I wish there was some kind of delicious flavored beverage that would quench my thirst.
Awww, come on guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. Hey! It's all ball bearings nowadays.
Allsport rocks
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