Someone should probably spill the beans regarding the recently-developed irrelevance of this debate.
Someone should probably spill the beans regarding the recently-developed irrelevance of this debate.
Hardly - there is still time to write the BoD again, I think. I just did.Originally Posted by starkejt
<blank stare>
Not sure what the hell this means, or whether it is a good thing or a bad thing, but saw this on the SCCA Club Racing page today:
"Board Suspends 2.5 Rule Through 2013
Sports Car Club of America’s Board of Directors voted today to suspend through the 2013 season, the rule that placed classes on probation, and ultimately eliminated them from the National racing program."
http://www.scca.com/clubracing/news.cfm?cid=50874
Huh? So every class is now a national class or all classes below 2.5 are cut off? Me confused...Bet then that doesn't take much. Oh look...shinny!
I think it means that all classes that are currently National classes will not be reclassified or be put on probation no mater what the participation numbers are.
Thanks ... Jay Novak
When is the BOD supposed vote on this weight penalty?
The Weight Penalty
I'm guessing -- and hoping it ain't so -- that many of us have not brought as much energy to the fight (against the weight penalty) now that the first battle (getting the recomendation down from 40 lbs) has been won.
It seems now is REALLY the time to write the BoD, because twenty-five is still a substantial penalty for anyone who wants to run a 21st Century race car.
I'm not the guy to do it (although I WILL again write the BoD) but someone with a big voice in the FB catagory should again rally the troops for a big wave of letter-writing to the BoD on this poorly-thought-out rule proposal.
Chris
Penalty proposal squashed
The BoD has voted down the proposal (word back from Creighton yesterday), so there will be no weight penalty.
That's good news. Now, if they will put it out to be official and in writing and soon maybe they can show some stability in the rules. I'm very glad to hear this for all the club racers.
So who should we put in charge of coming up with something new to argue about?
I expect that it will be in the next Fastrack as usual with BoD votes.
Wren
let's talk about that FC rules proposal. That's been quiet for awhile.Wren
Ken
Wren
I tried yesterday, but no one seems to want to talk about all of the illegal composite noses out there.
We all thought you just didn't know the difference between the front and back of a car.I tried yesterday, but no one seems to want to talk about all of the illegal composite noses out there.
I'll bite:I tried yesterday, but no one seems to want to talk about all of the illegal composite noses out there.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...742#post317742
Happy?
Dopey.
Is it true, 25lbs penalty now for non-mechanical shifters in FB? i read the fastrack this morning and I think there is a 25 lb penalty. If this is true, is 25 pounds enough of a penalty, sounds like electronic shifter is the way to go still.
I wonder how heavy my FB will be after doing the anti intrusion panels and the pro-shift, prolly too heavy to be competitive at all, oh well.
Where did you see a 25 lb weight penalty in fastrack? I didn't see it. Cut and paste it here.
FB
#3101 – August
After discussion with the BoD, the CRB withdrew its previously submitted recommended rule change (see the March
Fastrack). In accordance with that discussion, the CRB proposes the following rule change in its place. [Note that after
member input and discussion at the Runoffs the proposed penalty has been reduced from 40 to 25 pounds.]
Replace 9.1.1.H.8.D with the following: “All gear changes must be initiated by the driver. Only shift mechanisms that are
completely mechanical are permitted at no weight penalty. These may include (but are not limited to) any combination
of rods, joints, levers, springs, paddles, cables and pneumatic components. No electrical or electronic components
(including electrical wires) are permitted. Devices that allow pre-selected gear changes are prohibited. All other shifting
mechanisms are permitted at a 25 pound penalty.”
I hope i didn't get lost assuming this is a rules change, sorry if i misread or stand incorrect with my assumption. regards juan marchand
That looks like it was back in August's fasttrack where they changed the recommendation from 40 to 25 lbs. But it has since been dropped and there won't be a weight penalty, as far as I know.
I see no mention of a weight penalty in the January 2012 FastTrack.
sorry fellas, i made a mistake my bad.
The only mention of it in the recommended rules changes for 2012 is that the proposal was withdrawn.
Stan Clayton
Stohr Cars
I thought at first Juan was saying it had resurfaced in the January FastTrack. I think you are right, the last mention of a weight penalty was when it was withdrawn.
Good
I have withheld my comments and my opinion (I know you find that hard to believe), but I wanted to share my congrats to the CRB for making the right choice. I have always felt that FB is an awesome class and offers incredible opportunities for evolution. The CRB, through their (eventual) decision, have shown that they support the premise that FB is a class for innovators and competition.
I feel that this supports the attractiveness of the class. I fully understand the opinions of those who would prefer NOT to have these shifter systems implemented, including my old room-mate. Frankly, I have always felt that these shifters make these cars somewhat easier to drive (both hands on the wheel) and do take away some of the race craft involved in proper heel-and-toe downshifting.... Because of this "levelling" of the playing field in this aspect of driving I hope to see the first few rows of every grid nice and tight.
I also feel that the precision of both up and down shifts should save a few ventilated blocks.
FB is the coolest open wheel class in SCCA. Frankly, dollar for dollar, FB is one of the most competitive and well balanced class of car in the world; great brakes, good aero, great HP, awesome sounds and they look cool. Juan, I can see why you made the switch from FM over here...I don't understand why more haven't done so before now.
Now the CRB needs to continue their great work and try hard to maintain rules stability for this class. All the churn that these potential rules changes do have the effect of frightening off potential new class participants.
For all, I wish you a great and competitive season.
I'm off to the shop to install my Proshift in my DSR.
Tom Owen
Owner - Browns Lane and Racelaminates.com
Heel n' wha?
I swear the last time I heel and toed something it was in my RX7 Turbo II at Road Atlanta in 1997.
Since that day I have not raced or tracked anything with synchro's.
(Now where the heck is that stick pokin' icon at?)
Happy Nude Year to all my clothing optional friends!
PS Tom u r still my buddy - Onea these >on me at Mosport in May.
Hi Tom, do you know who might be able to inspect/service that shifter solenoid on the proshift system, is there someone in North America. I've sent some Radical customer's units overseas in the past, but now I wonder if they have stateside reps, this info would be valuable to those looking at the systems in the market, specially ones based overseas.
ProShift is a sponsor for the F1000 Championship, I wonder if Jon knows of a contact.
You are right about switching over to F1000, more people will come for sure. For me it is a bit intimidating stepping up to a class that I don't know much about and so its going to be challenging as hell. I moved to this class because I want to keep both hands up on the wheel, and play in aero land, and standing starts, and the choices choices.....
Glenn, what? you never heel and toe the FM, to feel like you were in the RX7?? what
JRM
Hey Juan,
The shifter rules proposal at 25 lbs weight penalty is kind of mute anyway for the Van Diemens. I've done just about everything I can, and the car comes in at about 1040lbs. I am running a completely mechanical shifter. the next thing is a lighter battery and I am looking at a titanium tail pipe. My body weight is 190, and I don't think I can(will) get much lighter.
Speaking of the tail pipe, I have to get the titanium in at least ten foot lengths(2" ID). So if anyone out there is interested in this stuff, let me know.
And one more thing- If anyone who can really drive is considering the pro series, my car and transport is available for a decent deal- I will only discuss those terms to whoever is serious about doing this in private. I would like to run the series myself, but if I don't have the funds, someone else should.
JRM,Hi Tom, do you know who might be able to inspect/service that shifter solenoid on the proshift system, is there someone in North America. I've sent some Radical customer's units overseas in the past, but now I wonder if they have stateside reps, this info would be valuable to those looking at the systems in the market, specially ones based overseas.
ProShift is a sponsor for the F1000 Championship, I wonder if Jon knows of a contact.
You are right about switching over to F1000, more people will come for sure. For me it is a bit intimidating stepping up to a class that I don't know much about and so its going to be challenging as hell. I moved to this class because I want to keep both hands up on the wheel
Glenn, what? you never heel and toe the FM, to feel like you were in the RX7?? what
JRM
The US rep for Pro-Shift in the F1000 class is:
Team E Racing
Phone (Administrative Office): 727-375-3482
Email: TeamE@TeamERacing.com
JRM,
Let me know if you get in touch with Team E. I have left messages for about a week and haven't heard back. They have my car at their shop.
Ken
Ken
Proshift
I worked with Proshift about a year and a half ago. I still believe theirs is the best product on the market. I could whine and whinge about how they did not appreciate my work for them (gratis, I might add), but the end result is that they selected others to represent them rather than me.
The problem with the shift initiation solenoids is that they are filled with some semi-viscous material that seems to melt with exposure to heat. I have been successful in repairing them in the past.
Did you know that the initiation force is adjustable by changing the weight of the slug internal to the cylinder? A larger slug means a stronger actuation. A nice way to fine tune some recalcitrant transmissions!
One of the reasons I like the magnetic (electric) solenoid is its manner of operation; it initiates the shift "gently" and increases its power (and therefore force) as it travels its stroke. This is versus what I understand an air-operated solenoid does....which slams the shift a little harder, using full force immediately. For me, this would mean that the electric solenoid is a little easier on the transmission by engaging the gear with less force.
I am sorry that there appears to be a problem reaching Pro-Shift's authorized representatives(sorry I could not resist)....
but seriously, I would give them a try again, and if no response, contact Roy in England. I am sure he will be able to assist. I found him very responsive in any technical matters, and Ian Dorrington (their engineer) is an uber-genious!
I hosted Ian over here last year and found him to be knowledgeable, easy to work with, and able to fix about anything! With one of the team cars we installed a system on, he actually found an electrical engine fault that had been plaguing the team. The result was a full-power engine AND a quicker shifting system! All on a no-sleep red-eye to Buffalo, an overnight Proshift installation, and then a double Nat at the Glen.
A great product and some pretty smart people!
And Coop, I want to state that while I may be old and musty, I still heel and toe (do-si-do) with the best of 'em. And is this still not needed to "match revs" when downshifting these cars? If not, why would we all want a downshift blipper on our systems? You young upstarts....hmmmm !!
Last edited by brownslane; 12.29.11 at 12:32 PM. Reason: defending my honor against the Coop Guy!
Tom Owen
Owner - Browns Lane and Racelaminates.com
Juan, I will asssist if needed
Juan, if you have no luck over here, you can send the solenoid to me and I will have a look for you. The odds are I know what the problem is and can fix it.
Tom
PM me if you want to set something up.
Tom Owen
Owner - Browns Lane and Racelaminates.com
I'm onea them LFB's
so I only heel/toe a car w/ synchros in the gearbox.
Have I mentioned that I am very vocal, bordering on appearing to be superior to those that don't? Oh - It'll come along, just wait
Blipper on downchange - takes backload off the gears - "It's like butta"
Here I was thinking this stuff was all common knowledge, esp with the 17 or 18 Geartronics threads.
I recommend watching the movie "My Left Foot" to start.
Since I'll be running my torque tube mechanical shifter again, I'm going to propose to the CRB a new weight penalty of 100 lbs for anything other than pure mechanical.
Yes, I'm kidding...
Tom I will try them again, I'm pretty sure these two units have been overheated previously in SR3's. You are right, heat is the enemy. Once, I didn't know what was going on with the ProShi shifter at the Sprints in 07 or 08, it missed a flat upshift and car got light coming out of T7, big hit backwards into tires. Thats the last time I used that solenoid.
Thats cool the actuator can be weight-balance for stronger action etc... very nice, you know the ins on this thing, I've dealt with Proshift systems since 2006. There seems to be a new model out that is prolly smarter and nicer to the gearbox.
I'm glad you have been successful fixing the viscous bladder inside the solenoid. I'll let you know what I'll do either way, thanks.
Ive also seen the Pingle solenoid(made and/or assembled
Jon, thanks for the information
[quote=Brett Lane;325839]Hey Juan,
The shifter rules proposal at 25 lbs weight penalty is kind of mute anyway for the Van Diemens. I've done just about everything I can, and the car comes in at about 1040lbs. I am running a completely mechanical shifter. the next thing is a lighter battery and I am looking at a titanium tail pipe. My body weight is 190, and I don't think I can(will) get much lighter.
Brett, does you car have the bigger wheels and tires, how about alloy brakes? my car came with the cable shifter but the steering drop mount for the paddles hits my knees if i crash, excuses excuses, i know. i hope to get in the car at 170lbs by mid summer. I dont know how heavy the car will be but should be ok.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote