40 LBS

[Nicholas Belling]

How many current active FB drivers / with cars is there in north america.?

maybe beachamp can chime. anyone.

Nicholas.

[tstarke4]

Speaking of girlfriends and wives, what about the irony of Schwietz having just lost 40 pounds?

[Nicholas Belling]

Speaking of girlfriends and wives, what about the irony of Schwietz having just lost 40 pounds?

Sweitz below 200 lbs !! thats something to celebrate.

[starkejt]

He is neither below 200 lbs. nor has he lost 40 lbs. He is 220-something depending on the day and has lost 20-25 lbs at most.

[carnut169]

And it's being held back by a couple of cry babies Your blather has spooked more intelligent people from getting involved in this class than you can even imagine.

If we can't continue this conversation without personal insults the thread will be locked and your thread deleted. No more comments about whiners, babies, idiots, etc.

Just because people do not agree does not mean they are any of the above. If people are not buying cars because of a discussion about shifters that's pretty sad.

I'm going out to the garage to work on my FC. Nearly lapped Wren last race so that's my new goal.

[Rennie Clayton]

I have written polite letters to the CRB and the BOD. I have discussed it with members of the FSRAC and BOD. FC does not currently have a weight penalty in it, FF effectively does not since no one is going to actually run a cortina.

This is a talking point fail. Both classes have extensively engaged in "weight penalties for things" in the past, and quite recently at that. Anyway, the notion that we just don't engage in that kind of adjustment philosophy is laughable on its face. Do we try to "legislate equality"? No. But we damn sure do use weight as both carrot and stick with respect to running specific types of equipment on cars, across all of the Formula categories.

They might not be quite the powderkeg you say, but they are definitely more of an advantage than the geartronics. The nice thing is that the whiners are also kind of clueless, so why give up an advantage that they don't know about yet.

As I mentioned in another post, the intrinsic value of the Geartronics does not present itself in the scope of a single lap. It presents itself in the consistency of performance over multiple laps, and being able to achieve perfection on the shifting front consistently throughout the race. And at the end of the day, even you would agree that what primarily matters is elapsed time to complete race distance - single lap performance is an oversimplification that does not tell the complete story. It's an advantage over a race distance, unless you have some kind of herculean driver who can shift perfectly over a race distance.

Some weight penalty is absolutely not outrageous, because you will still be able to lap much more consistently close to perfection as a result of use of the system over a race distance.

To put costs in perspective, a new turn-key F1000 car (by some of the top manufacturers) is going to cost you around $55K. A new Van Dieman for the USF2000 series (turn-key) will end up costing you around $95K and also put into perspective the performance difference between the two classes and all the advanced aspects of FB. It's really a relatively low cost equation. Of course you can buy lower cost used cars for either class.

I think what we all need to do is look towards the future of this class and how costs can be contained, not look at what we have now and find ways of defeating their purpose.

To be fair, a similarly appointed F1000 car will also cost around $95k. The cost of top shelf dampers, data systems, lightweight wheels, etc. are just a fact of life. The F2000 cars are somewhat more expensive, but not by this order of magnitude.

TPIWWP

Is it not in the rules that any use of the terms "girlfriend" or "wife" must include pictures?

You want pictures of Wren's girlfriend?

Speaking of girlfriends and wives, what about the irony of Schwietz having just lost 40 pounds?

Oh dear lord, I just know I'm going to regret asking this, but... why does talk of girlfriends and wives suddenly remind you of Schweitz's physique?


Cheers,
Rennie

[starkejt]

You want pictures of Wren's girlfriend?

Sure, why not?

Oh dear lord, I just know I'm going to regret asking this, but... why does talk of girlfriends and wives suddenly remind you of Schweitz's physique?

Because Schwietz is a b!tch.

[Stan Clayton]

Because Schwietz is a b!tch.

Out here in San Francisco the usual convention is to employ the possessive pronoun "my" in place of the indefinite article "a".

Just sayin'...

[Christopher Crowe]

-- delerium has set in.

[Thomas Copeland]

If we can't continue this conversation without personal insults the thread will be locked and your thread deleted. No more comments about whiners, babies, idiots, etc.

Just because people do not agree does not mean they are any of the above. If people are not buying cars because of a discussion about shifters that's pretty sad.

I'm going out to the garage to work on my FC. Nearly lapped Wren last race so that's my new goal.

Please lock this thread down now Sean. This nonsense has gone on long enough.

I'm off to Vegas. Hope when I get back this thread is finally locked and deleted.


PS Sean I didn't make any remarks about anyone personally, it was a generalized statement. How is this damaging? Never mind....probably not going to agree with you on that either.

[carnut169]

Thomas, the insulting parts of this thread was getting old, generally, and I fail to see how it adds anything productive. I could have easily quoted others so it's not just you.

It has pretty much been played out.

1. Write letters to BOD/ CRB if you care.
2. Some feel the class should be less restricted, some feel it should be more. Others want absolutely no changes.
3. We all agree that FB is awesome, and hope for it's continued success.


It will be interesting to see what 2012 brings.

[Christopher Crowe]

1. Write letters to BOD/ CRB if you care.

[jerry freeman]

1. Write letters to BOD/ CRB if you care.

Correct me if I'm wrong and I know someone will but I think we're past the CRB stage. Letters to the BOD are all that matters now.

Jerry

[ASRF1000]

Rennie, you are correct. You can certainly spend a lot on a new F1000. But, my point is that you can buy a turn-key new car from Stohr, Phoenix, Firman, etc. for around $55K complete and be ready to race. Add a shifter system, upgrade your shocks and still be under $65K.

With F2000 your going to be $85-95K out the door once you have all the pieces you need to make it on-track.

Of course, you can spend more, ultra-light wheels, expensive data system, aero package, etc. but you don't have to. It all depends on how far you want to go. More money will be spent on test days than upgrades by those who want to run up front.

[VehDyn]

My understanding is that no competitor has ever won the Runoffs in DSR with a geartronics system. It's a faster class (the fastest this year), with similar systems for shifting. Most people run flatshifters with a mechanical paddle. Some run air systems but I have not heard of one person using the geartronics. Why? Its definitely not cost...WEIGHT. They don't think the extra weight of the geartronics system (was it 17 lbs?) is worth it. That is why most of the guys don't even run dry sumps. Too much weight.

Refresh my memory. Where did the 40 lb number come from?

[ASRF1000]

Ken,

40 lbs is what was recommended by the CRB.

[Daryl DeArman]

Refresh my memory. Where did the 40 lb number come from?

40 lbs is what was recommended by the CRB.

Pretty sure that was a rhetorical question or anticipating a response something like an ouija board.

[VehDyn]

Pretty sure that was a rhetorical question or anticipating a response something like an ouija board.

Exactly!!

See I am a simple engineer. If you have an opinion, I am willing to accept it if you back it up with data. The rub here is the CRB came up with a number with no known (or shared) data and now the competitors are being asked to supply information that says that 40 isnt the right number. See the flawed logic?

Its like when a company gets sued and they have to prove they were in the right, rather than the plaintiff providing any evidence to justify their case. It seems to me that the status quo should stay unless data is provided to justify a change.

Hmmm. What is that law? A body in motion remains in motion until acted upon by an external force... Seems to me that body should have stayed in motion unless there was concrete evidence to provide a force and what amount that force should have been.

Just using logic here folks. Back to your regular programming of Jersey Shore.

[starkejt]

The rub here is the CRB came up with a number with no known (or shared) data and now the competitors are being asked to supply information that says that 40 isnt the right number. See the flawed logic?

Actually, no competitors that I know of have been asked to supply any data or information, and those who have offered it have been declined.

[Wren]

I'm going out to the garage to work on my FC. Nearly lapped Wren last race so that's my new goal.

Mike managed to do it while starting from the back in Atlanta, so I don't know what you are doing wrong.

If you ever want to be fast, you are probably going to want to set more ambitious goals than that.

[Nicholas Belling]

My understanding is that no competitor has ever won the Runoffs in DSR with a geartronics system. It's a faster class (the fastest this year), with similar systems for shifting. Most people run flatshifters with a mechanical paddle. Some run air systems but I have not heard of one person using the geartronics. Why? Its definitely not cost...WEIGHT. They don't think the extra weight of the geartronics system (was it 17 lbs?) is worth it. That is why most of the guys don't even run dry sumps. Too much weight.

Refresh my memory. Where did the 40 lb number come from?

BTW, Geartronics shift systems with carbon bottle and pressure regulator can get just below 4kg / 8.8 lbs..

I am sure most linkage / hardware setups in dsr weigh in the 4 - 7 lbs range.. but the geartronics minus your stock shifter you pull out can ultimately come then much below a total system increase to your car of 4- 6 lbs easily.

[DonArm]

They chose 40 because they knew it would get negotiated down. It will probably be 25lbs.
I know of one BOD member that I spoke with who said he was for adding 25lbs as a penalty. Two others I have spoken with said they weren't sure yet.
I have a feeling you can write all the letters you want but an agenda has been set by a few people, without regard what the racers in the class want. And their agenda, not the racers who keep the class going and pay the bills for the SCCA will more than likely prevail. But I really hope I'm wrong.

[JohnPaul]

1. Write letters to BOD/ CRB if you care.

Don't waste your time, letters have already been done and they have already made decision and no one is changing their mind. Deal with it and take it like a man

BTW, Geartronics shift systems with carbon bottle and pressure regulator can get just below 4kg / 8.8 lbs..

Correction: 48.8 lbs

[Jnovak]

This thread has become both irritating & amusing (hilarious at times).

My main point is that the BOD will be making the decision within 3 weeks on this subject & then all discussion will be over, period. Instead of making the next post on this subject send a letter to the BOD telling them what you want.

For those who talk and never do here is the email adress.

bod@scca.com

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[ASRF1000]

Jay is right, the only thing you can do that can potentially make any positive swing in either direction is to write to the BOD. The CRB has spoken and their position is clear. It is now up to the BOD to render a decision as to what the outcome will be. Write to the BOD and clearly (without emotion) state your case as to your opinion, whatever it might be. It may or may not make a difference, but you can be sure that if you don't write, it definately won't make a difference.

There is no longer any reason to debate the issue on here. This is just a forum to state your opinion and I think we all have done that. No need for name calling or belittleing, we all have our opinions and we're not going to change many of the people on here, and it doesn't really matter if we do anyway.

Be constructive, not destructive and write the BOD. Hopefully, a decision will be made in favor of the majority.