Oil Cooler for FF.

[GChambers]

My 84 VanDiemen currently has an oil cooler. I'm thinking about getting rid of it. Any of you guys currently run one? If so, why/why not?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Geoff

BTW, the car only gets autocrossed. No track days/road racing.

[Brian]

No need at all for an oil cooler. Your problem is probably getting the oil hot enough, not keeping it cool. We didn't run an oil cooler on an RF83, and ran 30 minute races with it. Run synthetic oil, as light as you can, and judge by oil pressure coming off the run. what weight oil your engine wants depends on how it was built, but look for around 35 psi hot at 5000 rpm or so.

My take on it anyway.

[kea]

What an oil cooler does, besides lower the oil temperature, is help separate the air trapped in the oil, before it returns to the supply tank.

[Jim Garry]

As usual, Keith is right. But as an autocrosser of FF's since 1990, the biggest motor issue has been, as Brian points out, getting the oil hot enough.

[Brian]

Keith is, as always, correct about the deaeration issue. We just didn't have an issue with that in practice, and I haven't run an oil cooler on a FFord 1600 engine ever (although I admit that I installed one on my vintage ford, in the expectation that I wasn't ever going to actually be competitive in it and I wanted the engine to last until I stopped racing...)

But I had a thought. What if you installed an oil-water cooler and used the water temp to heat up the oil? Is that useful on an autocross car? Or is it simpler to just use an electric heater before a run?

Brian

[kea]

Both good comments. Oil temp is important and the oil/water cooler might help get the oil temp up quicker.
A small cooler could be used, located in a bad spot, if after a run you see the oil in your tank having the look of a milkshake.

[Buc01]

Brian,

In Europe, FF's at least the and RF88 VD, came with oil-water coolers. I uninstalled it and also never ran a traditional air-oil cooler on the car.

I really doubt that FF's need oil coolers. (I never ran one and never had an engine failure).

Aaron

[PCalhoun]

Geoff,
Get rid of the oil cooler. We have a bigger issue getting the oil temps up high enough w/every engine builder I have ever worked w/. Plus you can get rid of the weight of the cooler and associated plumbing.

Pete

[GChambers]

Thanks to everyone for the input. I do appreciate the help

I'm going to get rid of it. I'm not buying that the oil cooler helping disperse the air that's trapped in the oil. That's what should be happening in the oil tank. Between the weight and simplicty, getting rid of it seems like the best choice.

[DanW]

Dave Weitzenhof used an oil to water cooler from a VW Sirrocco on his FC's. It was a sandwich type that goes between the filter mount and the filter. They are also used on Toyota 4AGE motors.

Served two purposes, getting the oil warm as the car warmed up and keeping the oil from getting too hot while on track. Cold/viscous oil eats HP.

[scorp997]

It was a sandwich type that goes between the filter mount and the filter. They are also used on Toyota 4AGE motors..

The 4AGE motor in my old first gen MR2 was a oil/water cooler that was in the long diagonal hard ccolant pipe located on the firewall. I have looked at them several times to use on other projects. As a side note, on the MR2 the only the bypassed oil is cooled - not a full flow system.

I have heard some of the VW sandwich units can fail and dump the oil into the water.

[DanW]

John,

I agree about possible leakage, though our use is very low hours. My son's street AE86 corolla used a sandwich cooler for more than 250Kmiles, including three seasons of track competition.

Both my old Gen 2 Turbo MR2 and my Tundra also takes a bypass of coolant for the oil in a sandwich cooler.

They are used on modern cars to help warm the oil quickly for improved fuel mileage.

[Dick R.]

Ford has installed (may still be) an oil to water (heater/cooler) on many V8's including my 97 Mustang GT 4.6 automatic. It also serves as the filter mount. My 01 Mustang GT 4.6 manual trans does not have the cooler. As others have stated I think the "unit" is to speed oil warm up as much as later help cool oil. As I recall the late 80's - early 90's pushrod 5.0 police package Mustangs had a similar unit. The Ford unit fits between the block and the filter. No exposed fins, etc.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/...it-03-04-Cobra


FYI: No cooler in my 85 VD. No space, no need for my use, already overweight. The car had one when I bought it and I actually purchased a new one (available) but then learned that it wasn't necessary.

Dick
CM85

[kea]

For those of you who don't believe that an oil cooler may be needed, do not remove one on the Crossle 30-32F series. Not all oil tanks can separate air/oil.

[Joefisherff]

As this is my old car I can attest to the fact that the oil tank is just a vessel with no de-aeration built into it. The oil just dumps straight into it and it does look like a milkshake without the cooler. One of the reasons I added to cooler was that even with the monster radiator in it I was having cooling issues so I added the oil cooler to pull some temp out of the engine. May not have been the best solution but it worked. BTW Geoff if you are looking to pull some more weight out of the car I have a new aluminum radiator for it. It would not keep the car cool on the race track but it should work for Autocrossing.

Joe

[Albatross]

I fail to understand just how an oil cooler can (is able) to remove air. And, if it does, explain to me where the air goes.

[GChambers]

As this is my old car I can attest to the fact that the oil tank is just a vessel with no de-aeration built into it. The oil just dumps straight into it and it does look like a milkshake without the cooler. One of the reasons I added to cooler was that even with the monster radiator in it I was having cooling issues so I added the oil cooler to pull some temp out of the engine. May not have been the best solution but it worked. BTW Geoff if you are looking to pull some more weight out of the car I have a new aluminum radiator for it. It would not keep the car cool on the race track but it should work for Autocrossing.

Joe

Joe, I'd be very interested in that radiator! Gus and I have already been discussing plans for a new aluminum radiator for the car. We didn't have any issues at all keeping the car cool at Toledo last weekend so I'd love to give that aluminum radiator a try. I'll pm my email address to you again in case you no longer have it so we can discuss it.

Thank you for the input on the oil cooler as well. You've definitely got me rethinking my decision.

Thanks!

[GChambers]

I fail to understand just how an oil cooler can (is able) to remove air. And, if it does, explain to me where the air goes.

Exactly the same thought I had. I would also appreciate the explanation.

[TedV]

My understanding is the oil slows down inside the cooler compared to its speed in the hose. This gives the small bubbles some time to join other bubbles forming into larger bubbles. These larger bubbles then travel with the oil to the reservoir. The larger bubbles will go to the top of the oil and pop quicker than the small bubbles. If you have a well designed reservoir where the oil is spit out tangential to the side of the reservoir, or you have a decent shelf the oil passes over in a thin layer before making it to the larger mass of oil in the reservoir then you don’t need an oil cooler.

Oil coolers can be a point of failure. My cars oil cooler didn’t have any vibration dampening on it when I purchased it and I didn’t catch it before vibrations cracked it, puking oil. I did see the oil squirting so I didn’t run the motor dry. My VW oil/water cooler on my street diesel has 312K miles and on it and is starting to weep around the sealing o-rings.

[mwizard]

Great post. My new 90 Van Diemen has no oil cooler and I was wondering if I needed one. One less thing to worry about!
Mark

[Albatross]

My understanding that some of the "modern" FF do not run an oil cooler. You only know if you need an oil cooler when you continually run too high a temperature. Many drivers don't know what their operating oil temperature is because they do not have a gauge. And, those that do have a gauge don't know what the optimum temperature should be. What should the temperature be? Ask your engine builder.