Standing Starts

[ASRF1000]

This post is simply for my own thought process and knowledge. It is not to try and change any rules or influence any such change. I'm just curious as to what F1000 drivers and team members think about standing starts and whether an F1000 can stand up to a season of standing starts. For example; is the clutch strong enough, would it add additional costs of operation, etc.

1. I would like standing starts
2. I do not like standing starts
3. An F1000 is strong enough to do standing starts
4. An F1000 will not handle standing starts

If you feel that F1000's cannot handle standing starts, please say why.

Like I said before, this is simply for my own information and to see how everyone in F1000 feels about standing starts. Thank you!

[Scootin159]

As a corner worker, I prefer standing starts. Normally means there's more to do on lap 1 turn 1.

[Dick R.]

How would you gear a low torque engine for standing starts with two really sticky tires? Can you even change the internal ratios? Obviously you need the same top speed gearing.

I am a FF1600 autocrosser who has done probably hundreds of drag race type standing starts in the Pro Solo version of autocross. Pro Solo has side by side lanes leading to mirror image courses with "Christmas Tree" starts where reaction time is important. This requires a first gear good for about 45 mph and a second no higher than about 66 mph . . . with a big rpm drop with that gearing. We only need a top speed of less than 90 mph in 4th. Good grip launches can typically require 3 - 5K launch rpms to make sure the tires, not the clutch spin and the engine doesn't bog. Remember our redline is about 7K max and our torque peak is over 100 at about 4500 rpm.

Even normal autocrosses on good surfaces require the same gearing to avoid clutch issues and lost time.

Dick
CM 85
FF1600

[formulasuper]

I would predict clutch/drive chain problems with all the traction of the FB rear tires.

[carnut169]

I think standing starts would be great fun, for both racer and spectator. However, IMHO, they'd be really hard on the cars.

[JohnPaul]

I'd predict major pile ups on every start

[ASRF1000]

Gee John,

Not much faith in the driving ability of F1000 drivers...LOL

[Brands]

I've done more standing starts than I've had hot dinners and not once had anything break, including two full national seasons in bike powered classes. Standing starts are great fun. Of course if no one is used to them then it could be an issue like the first rolling start I did in the uk. I was fine but but it was a real mess back in the field!

[Brandon Dixon]

I think that the low torque combined with the motorcycle clutches and the potential for breaking driveline components on the start make for a scary picture. One of the worst things to deal with on standing starts are stalled cars. I think we would have some stalled cars on every start. It would be real fun if you had two stalled cars beside each other

[ASRF1000]

I spoke extensively with John at Formula Jedi in the UK about this. The series runs cars similar to FB with Suzuki and Yamaha 1000 CC engines with chain drive etc. They have been doing standing starts for a long time, day in and day out, and have not found it to be an issue at all. No clutch problems or drive train issues. They run tires similar to 8 front & 10 rears as well.

Standing starts were a staple of the Formula BMW series (with low torque motorcycle engines) and there didn't seem to be a problem there either. Cars are spaced out on the grid more than typical of a rolling start. Yes, the stalled car can be an issue, but if they can do it in Europe with Formula Jedi and around the world in Formula BMW, we certainly can do it here.

All it takes is the driver practicing and learning how to do them correctly.

[JohnPaul]

. I think we would have some stalled cars on every start. It would be real fun if you had two stalled cars beside each other

my point exactly, everytime (probably be me most times)

[Mike B]

One of the worst things to deal with on standing starts are stalled cars. I think we would have some stalled cars on every start. It would be real fun if you had two stalled cars beside each other

But you have launch control, right?

[Dick R.]

I don't know about bike clutches but with my FF1600 with Tilton clutch the key to long clutch life is making sure that the tires slip, not the clutch. The key to long drivetrain life, at least with standard steel diff, is don't let one tire lose traction from a concrete pothole and then grip after the other tire has hooked up. I broke a freshly mag'd axle that way many years ago. That said I watched a car in front of me break an aluminum or lightened dif at a Pro Solo with a hard launch on a grippy start line. Sometimes it pays to have a more limited budget. Remember though that I have relatively short gearing. I think my third gear is one that was used for first at some road racing tracks.

Dick
CM 85

[Wren]

But you have launch control, right?

It's on the dash between the nitrous button and the in car wing adjuster

[andyllc]

I have no idea on how standing starts would work with the FB's in regards to their mechanicals but I HIGHLY doubt there would be more carnage. Almost a guarantee that there would be less, that was my experience after doing them for a year in Canada.

[starkejt]

It's on the dash between the nitrous button and the in car wing adjuster

No, that's the adjustment for the electronic diff settings for each corner. Launch control is the left thumb button on the wheel and is engaged by holding the button and pulling both paddles simultaneously. Once you see the gear indicator display change from N to ZOMGWOW, you're ready to launch.

[glenn cooper]

Personally I'd love it.

[Rick Ross]

All you guys need to do is arrange for your own run group at SCCA events. That should not be a problem...........

[Brands]

I spoke extensively with John at Formula Jedi in the UK about this. The series runs cars similar to FB with Suzuki and Yamaha 1000 CC engines with chain drive etc. They have been doing standing starts for a long time, day in and day out, and have not found it to be an issue at all. No clutch problems or drive train issues. They run tires similar to 8 front & 10 rears as well.

Standing starts were a staple of the Formula BMW series (with low torque motorcycle engines) and there didn't seem to be a problem there either. Cars are spaced out on the grid more than typical of a rolling start. Yes, the stalled car can be an issue, but if they can do it in Europe with Formula Jedi and around the world in Formula BMW, we certainly can do it here.

All it takes is the driver practicing and learning how to do them correctly.

I raced in this championship, and I can't think of any standing start related accident or mechanical issue. I must have done 100+ standing starts and I can't recall any problems. Of course they do happen, just as they do with rolling starts. Funnily enough we had a similar concern when we had to do our first rolling start. The concerns were that a first corner shunt would be arrived at much quicker, and there was some concern over racers discipline approaching the green. Anyway, the start passed off with no problems, and although I only did a few there was never a problem. Personally I don't like them, but then I was brought up on standing starts.

[ASRF1000]

Brands, you are correct and they (Formula Jedi) have been doing this with 1000cc motorcycle engine powered cars since 2003. Even longer with 600cc engines. They have had no mechanical issues with standing starts at all.

[Evl]

So does anyone do standing starts with mixed run groups? That would seem "interesting".

[billwald]

I think it would be fun to try it. I've never done it though. First to second gear would be almost instant. Bet it would sound and look awesome for the spectators. I'd give it a go if the opportunity was there.

[Turbowerks9]

I like the thought of standing starts. Fair and stops a lot of the cheating that goes on not to mention very few NO STARTS from the Starters.

[Thomas Copeland]

Any car with a clutch can do a standing start can't it?

But I'm not sure you can do it within the normal setting at a SCCA national/regional event. What about all the other cars in the group?

I've been asking the drivers in the series this year about doing a race or two outside the SCCA next year (nobody I've asked yet has shot the idea down). If that can be pulled off and we can race completely by ourselves at some future race then next question I might ask is would you want to do a standing start?

[Nicholas Belling]

that sounds way to exciting.. and of course our cars can handle them.. I even took my car on a drag strip with stock clutch springs to see what quarter mile times I could do on a saturday evening at the track when we had nothing to do.

[Will Velkoff]

that sounds way to exciting.. and of course our cars can handle them.. I even took my car on a drag strip with stock clutch springs to see what quarter mile times I could do on a saturday evening at the track when we had nothing to do.

Just out of curiosity, what did it do in the 1/4?