Shifter Rules

[Daryl DeArman]

This is why it is important that laptops are not allowed in pit lane during qualifying and races, and that all cars from the point of the end of each session are not allowed to be touched by the teams until released by the Series.

Yes, if it is way too easy too switch back and forth from non-functional to functional, it would be impossible to determine if the non-compliant functions are being used or not. I personally think it would be best if Geartronics were to offer the system without the non-compliant capabilities.

Richard, I knew when arguing semantics that I should have called the engine an engine, but I thought that "motor" was so commonly misused that it almost sounded better. Why do they call it "motor racing" or "motorsports" instead of engine racing or enginesports?

Anyway, who says you need a laptop to lock/unlock the prohibitted functions?

Why can't somebody back at the shop hack the code and make it unlock any desired illegal functions as soon as wheel speed exceeds 40mph for example and lock it once wheel speed drops below 40mph? Or why not some morse code deal with the shift lever while rpm signal = 0 to change modes?

[Alex Pate]

but as the youngest of 4 boys I spent the better part of my youth being picked on.
It made me the man I am today!

Wait, wha?



Yes I am aware that Niki C ran the fastest RFR laps at Rd Am at the '10 R/O's but I'm willing to wager that'll change this September, weather permitting...

Glen youand I both know niki was only fastest be ause we didn't have our cars there. But looks like were gonna give Brandon a run for his money this time. Fingers crossed. See you in miller?

[ASRF1000]

Richard, I knew when arguing semantics that I should have called the engine an engine, but I thought that "motor" was so commonly misused that it almost sounded better. Why do they call it "motor racing" or "motorsports" instead of engine racing or enginesports?

Anyway, who says you need a laptop to lock/unlock the prohibitted functions?

Why can't somebody back at the shop hack the code and make it unlock any desired illegal functions as soon as wheel speed exceeds 40mph for example and lock it once wheel speed drops below 40mph? Or why not some morse code deal with the shift lever while rpm signal = 0 to change modes?

Who's to say, schmooze to say. If someone is going to get inventive, they're going to get inventive. The rules are the rules. It's up to the Series to tech it and find any infractions, and the Series has to be preparred to do so. I imagine that if one wanted to they could pay millions of dollars to have one of our many satellites beam down a code to switch anything they want on and off at any given time. I know, that's a far fetched example, but there are always going to be those who try to circumvent the rules. It's part of our makeup as competitors. All I'm saying is go ahead and try, but if you get caught, you better be willing to pay the price.

Club racing has its draw backs in the form of rules as the tech process is very lax compared to pro events. Club racing is a sport where peoples integrity is put to the test. And yes, you are still going to find those who cheat for a $5 trophy. Personally I don't see where you can get any satisfaction winning if you know your car isn't legal, but there are those who do.

But try and get away with it in professional racing and you're going to get an eye opener.

[Daryl DeArman]

Who's to say, schmooze to say. If someone is going to get inventive, they're going to get inventive. The rules are the rules. It's up to the Series to tech it and find any infractions, and the Series has to be preparred to do so.

Actually you said: "that's why laptops aren't allowed in pitlane..." I'm merely pointing out that laptops aren't needed.

But try and get away with it in professional racing and you're going to get an eye opener.

Actually I hope the F1000 pro series does a better job of enforcement and penalties. F1, IRL and NASCAR sure don't do a great job of having penalties severe enough to deter breaking of the rules. If anything, the larger the reward, the more risk many are willing to take.

[ASRF1000]

Actually you said: "that's why laptops aren't allowed in pitlane..." I'm merely pointing out that laptops aren't needed.



Actually I hope the F1000 pro series does a better job of enforcement and penalties. F1, IRL and NASCAR sure don't do a great job of having penalties severe enough to deter breaking of the rules. If anything, the larger the reward, the more risk many are willing to take.

You are correct Daryl. I did say that. And by that I mean, laptops are what are used to enable and disable auto-shifting and preselected gear shifts with these systems. So, we are disallowing them in pit lane. We can't stop someone from trying to circumvent the system. But we can surely make it that systems (laptops) typically used are not allowed. It is our job to find any other sneaky ways someone might try to circumvent the use of a laptop.

Penalties for illegalities will be enforced and won't be minor.

[K.Sampson]

Why can't somebody back at the shop hack the code and make it unlock any desired illegal functions as soon as wheel speed exceeds 40mph for example and lock it once wheel speed drops below 40mph? Or why not some morse code deal with the shift lever while rpm signal = 0 to change modes?

You are correct in that there is a bit of an enforcment loophole in the rules are written and enforced. I would argue that current state of F1000/FB does not support the necssary technical effort and current tech methods are sufficent. Anyone with the level of technical ability to reverse engineer and reprogram the Geartronics system to do that could probably make their own system for less money/effort with the "features" designed in from the start.

After typing all that up I realise your point was probably... "Why don't we change the rules/enforcment now so people don't bother?"

[glenn cooper]

You are correct in that there is a bit of an enforcment loophole in the rules are written and enforced. I would argue that current state of F1000/FB does not support the necssary technical effort and current tech methods are sufficent. Anyone with the level of technical ability to reverse engineer and reprogram the Geartronics system to do that could probably make their own system for less money/effort with the "features" designed in from the start.

After typing all that up I realise your point was probably... "Why don't we change the rules/enforcment now so people don't bother?"

I saw an individual in a movie one time, years ago:
The Sci Fi Classic "Terminator".
Black guy all shot up, best death scene ever btw , worked for Geartro..., OOPS, I mean Teledyne.

[formulasuper]

"Richard, I knew when arguing semantics that I should have called the engine an engine, but I thought that "motor" was so commonly misused that it almost sounded better. Why do they call it "motor racing" or "motorsports" instead of engine racing or enginesports? "

Maybe "motorsports" won't be so incorrect in the nearby future. I heard something about F1 going to require all cars to be electrically driven while in the pit lane starting in 2014 during qualifying this morning!

[ASRF1000]

"Richard, I knew when arguing semantics that I should have called the engine an engine, but I thought that "motor" was so commonly misused that it almost sounded better. Why do they call it "motor racing" or "motorsports" instead of engine racing or enginesports? "

Maybe "motorsports" won't be so incorrect in the nearby future. I heard something about F1 going to require all cars to be electrically driven while in the pit lane starting in 2014 during qualifying this morning!

That's maybe the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm all for the Green initiative, but this is going too far. This is racing dang it!!!

[starkejt]

I saw an individual in a movie one time, years ago:
The Sci Fi Classic "Terminator".
Black guy all shot up, best death scene ever btw , worked for Geartro..., OOPS, I mean Teledyne.

Do you mean Miles Bennett Tyson in Terminator 2? Because he worked at Cyberdyne.

[Daryl DeArman]

After typing all that up I realise your point was probably... "Why don't we change the rules/enforcment now so people don't bother?"

I'm thinking make it "open" and be done with it, or make a rule you can enforce (or don't need to).

[ASRF1000]

or maybe you meant Buckaroo Banzai the nuclear physicist / rock star that worked at Yoyodyne.

[JohnPaul]

So when does the final ruling happen?

[Wren]

That was the final ruling on the mechanical shifter only rule. The proposal for a 40# weight penalty will follow the same process now. I do not know when the next BOD rules meeting is.

[Brett Lane]

Buckaroo was also a neurosurgion.

[starkejt]

I don't think Buckaroo worked at Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems. John Bigboote and the other Lectroids used it as a front.

[ASRF1000]

Brett & Starkejt,

You're both right. Its been awhile since I saw the flick.

John BigBooty, John Smallberries, John YawYaw and John Warfin used it as a front.

Buckaroo was a neurosurgeon / rockstar

Don't you just love the way these posts change subjects....

[glenn cooper]

Do you mean Miles Bennett Tyson in Terminator 2? Because he worked at Cyberdyne.

It sure does show straight away who is too lazy to search it!

[starkejt]

It sure does show straight away who is too lazy to search it!

Excuse me, but if you are questioning my knowledge of Terminator 2 by suggesting I had to search google to find that out, I take offense, sir.

[glenn cooper]

a) I was not,
b) Merely pointing out MY laziness for not Googling myself. Wait...

[starkejt]

...not Googling myself...

You mean you don't have a Google alert setup for your own name?

[brownslane]

if it involves phrases like "perp walk", "animal husbandry", or "folk dancing".....

You mean you don't have a Google alert setup for your own name?

[Mike Devins]

If you have not done so already please be sure that the CRB gets your comments on the 40 lb penalty for "all other shifters"

Sorry Coop, feel free to make a reply on your other thread to bring it to the top again.

[sprocketmensch]

I currently drive an FM and was looking into FB specifically because it offered the ability to use paddle shifters. I have a Maserati set up for the track which I have driven for a few years and the advantages of a good paddle shifter are obvious to anyone who has driven one. Trying to devise a rule to handicap different shifters seems frought with problems and doomed to failure. I don't see why we would mess with a successful formula. If you want to stay with a mechanical shifter, drive one of the other classes. FB has the advantage of high revving engines with sequential shift and all the goodies that entails. Why take the fun out? To what advantage? This class offers many of the goodies of F1 at a reasonable price point with modern designs. If this rule goes through I will not trade my FM for a FB.

[ASRF1000]

Sprocket,

Just race in the Formula 1000 Championship Series. They're not outlawed there.

[RussMcB]

Paddle shifters are not illegal.

[JohnPaul]

Paddle shifters are not illegal.

I think he means a state of the art electronic shifter system not a cable system

[RobLav]

Forget the cables... old school - a simple shift rod assembly works real well.

[Wren]

I think he means a state of the art electronic shifter system not a cable system

The good news is that the BOD has said that the electronic shift systems are going to be able to stay. The CRB hasn't given their agenda up and now they are promoting the 40 pound weight penalty for the shifter system. It is up to us to write our letters and encourage the BOD not to go down this path either.
The BOD clearly listened the first time (and many, many other times in the past) and there is no reason to think that they will not listen to the members again.

[glenn cooper]

[quote=RobLav;309142]Forget the cables... old school - a simple shift rod assembly works real well up to about 9 n a half tenths!

[RobLav]

Agree Coop - but the marginal cost curve becomes logarithmic at that level. I've never been willing to go there.

What's with the cat?

[JohnPaul]

The good news is that the BOD has said that the electronic shift systems are going to be able to stay. The CRB hasn't given their agenda up and now they are promoting the 40 pound weight penalty for the shifter system. It is up to us to write our letters and encourage the BOD not to go down this path either.
The BOD clearly listened the first time (and many, many other times in the past) and there is no reason to think that they will not listen to the members again.

Well let's see, I've sold my car and if they impose the 40lbs.penalty I might as well buy an FC, what's the difference? At least there will be a ton of competition. I know there are a few other guys that will probably do the same (I think you know a few also). I'm trying to see how this new f1000 series shapes up but if I don't hear some news on set dates real soon I'll be looking for an FC.

[glenn cooper]

Well let's see, I've sold my car and if they impose the 40lbs.penalty I might as well buy an FC, what's the difference? At least there will be a ton of competition. I know there are a few other guys that will probably do the same (I think you know a few also). I'm trying to see how this new f1000 series shapes up but if I don't hear some news on set dates real soon I'll be looking for an FC.

What the Hay, Maing?
You posted that you already had a Mygale to run in FC or actually I believe you mentioned the F2000 CS.
The Elan/VD FB car is actually sold, gone bye-bye? Is it still in the Southeast?

As my sainted Grandma was oft heard to ask in circumstances like this - WTF, son?


Rob - Pic is my 21 y/o cat Spyke, the Will Rogers of the cat world - never met a human he didn't like. He seemed to have a pretty healthy disdain for his own species, esp other males! He went off to the happy hunting grounds a few months ago.

[brownslane]

Rob - Pic is my 21 y/o cat Spyke, the Will Rogers of the cat world - never met a human he didn't like. He seemed to have a pretty healthy disdain for his own species, esp other males! He went off to the happy hunting grounds a few months ago.[/quote]


I KNEW there was something more to you, Coop! Not just good looking (!?) but a cat lover!

Ahhhh, your just a big, cuddly cat lover!

[JohnPaul]

What the Hay, Maing?
You posted that you already had a Mygale to run in FC or actually I believe you mentioned the F2000 CS.
The Elan/VD FB car is actually sold, gone bye-bye? Is it still in the Southeast?

As my sainted Grandma was oft heard to ask in circumstances like this - WTF, son?


Rob - Pic is my 21 y/o cat Spyke, the Will Rogers of the cat world - never met a human he didn't like. He seemed to have a pretty healthy disdain for his own species, esp other males! He went off to the happy hunting grounds a few months ago.

Got snaked out of the mygale but maybe I was meant to drive an FB after all. But since I already committed to my buyer I'll have to be on the hunt. I can't say who bought my car out as per his wishes but it will remain in the southeast and you will see it and he will continue to to develop it.

[LenFC11]

[quote=JohnPaul;309208]Got snaked out of the mygale


or ya just spoke before you acted...

[Stan Clayton]

Got snaked out of the mygale

or ya just spoke before you acted...

If that's a deliberate pun I'm impressed!

[LenFC11]

[JohnPaul]

[quote=LenFC11;309224]

Got snaked out of the mygale


or ya just spoke before you acted...

maybe........but that's not how it went down and it had nothing to do with you or Ric so dont think I'm pointing fingers nor am i upset. no biggie. turns out I'm glad I didn't buy it.

BTW: when does the final decision on whether there will be a weight penalty be decided??