31 Numbers Reserved....

[KevinFirlein]

look at it this way. You know well in advance what the rule is, instead of showing up and getting hit with 'rule 20'. Really not much different then when we ran rock hard hankooks on the 2 liter cars. I was gonna sipe a set for grip but was told nope ' rule 20'.

Its a 'pro series'. Which when you boil it all down is doing whats best for the most people. I dont like the 2 liter tire but I am in the very small minority. Its all part of running a series like this.

And here I thought it was gonna be the avgas guys grumpy.

[SOseth]

If all was equal between running the short rears vs. the normal rear tires then nobody would have switched in the first place. I think having the tire rule as is, is a good thing. It should make it easier for those that ran goodyears to come in and not have to re-engineer their cars to run on the shorts.

Everyone that is used to running on soft club tires will have to figure out the hard compound.

SteveO

[nulrich]

Two part numbers/sizes, no options. Couldn't be any easier than that.

Unless of course you went to only one part number/size. Then we could ALL run the same tire front and rear.

Actually, there's something even easier. The simplest solution is to have the F1600 cars run on four of the F2000 front radials (same size all around). I also thought it made sense to allow up to 6" wide wheels. No new tires for Hoosier to worry about, and fewer wheel sizes in the paddock.

I'm guessing most everyone is glad they didn't take my suggestion!

Nathan

[dc]

The Pro Series spec tire rule exists to reduce costs.

Allowing skinny rears benefits a few to the detriment of many, so it shouldn't even be considered.

Last year, "nobody" wanted to race on hard tires in FF according to the SCCA. This year, we have 40+ racers signed up to race on hard tires that "nobody" wanted to race on.

[mblanc]

Hey Doug,

Great new banner pic, I bet Rudolph's is already at the 'apex'!

And he's got four hooves pulling, (all the same size) !!

sorry, couldn't resist.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a spec HARD tire compound.

Let the slip angles INCREASE !!!!!!!!!

[Michael Rand]

[FONT=Times New Roman]It is still 2010 and the number has risen to 42 reserved numbers already. Even if only 50% show up even semi-regularly it could still be the biggest field since the 40th ![/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]F1600 Formula F numbers for 2011[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]0 Lewis Cooper III VD RF00 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]2 Mike Scanlan, Swift DB6Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]3 Ric Baribeault, Piper DF5 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]4 Bob Detrick VD RF 98K Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]5 Colin Thompson Swift DB6 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]6 Brian Graham Racing[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]7 Matt McDonough [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]08 Steve Maxwell Piper Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]9 Brian Graham Racing[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]11 Doug Stout Swift DB1Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]13 Greg Rice VD RF Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]14 Ross Devoe VD RF93 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]15 Jim Oseth VD RF98 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]17 Dan Layton VD RF98 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]19 Tim Dunn Swift DB6 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]19 John Robinson Swift DB6 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]20 Mike Agnifilo Swift DB6 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]21 Art Foster VD RF00 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]21 John Butkovitch Swift DB1 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]22 Bill Ehrlinger DB6 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]26 Wes Allen Piper DF2 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]26 Tim Clowater EuroSwift SC92 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]27 Charles Foster Piper DF5 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]31 Brian Copperthite Citation Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]33 Len Amato VD RF04Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]35 Todd Bardwell Swift DB1 Fit[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]36 Steve Roux TBD/ Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]42 Lee Williams Mondiale M89S Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]44 Ed Callo Bowman BC-5 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]63 John Grooms Swift DB1 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]66 Eric Oseth VD RF97 Fit[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]68 Caitlin Johnston VD RF97K Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]71 Forrest Hull VD Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]72 Steve Oseth Citation FF94 Fit [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]75 Don Baggett Swift DB6 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]77 Mike Kolthoff Swift DB6 Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]83 Bill Valet Swift DB6 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]85 Mark Walthew VD RF85 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]86 Andy/Kevin Brumbaugh Crossle 35F Kent[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]88 Tim Kautz TBD/ Fit[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]89 Todd McAfee Swift DB1 Kent [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]99 Sean Maisey Citation SF95 Fit [/FONT]

[LenFC11]

wow 42 regi'd cars this is gonna be an awesome series!

and the only one complaing about tires isn't even on the list

seems to me if you like racing in small fields with any tire you want scca nationals at RA is the place for you. if you want to race in large feilds with deep talent at many different tracks, sign up.

it's one thing to complain on apex, quite another to join the party. every year mike and the fellas send out a questionaire asking what the competitiors want, i have a feeling they pay attention to this as can be seen in the large fields in f2k and now what appears to be happening in f1600.

[RussMcB]

How do these F1600 numbers compare to the F2000 reserved numbers? (I searched before posting).

[LenFC11]

f2k had 15 -18 or so entries the 1st year. these f1600 #'s are very exciting

[RussMcB]

f2k had 15 -18 or so entries the 1st year. these f1600 #'s are very exciting

The F1600 competitors have the benefit of seeing how successful the F2000 series has been.

Sometimes I'm surprised at the F1600 draw, and sometimes I'm not (because it makes sense).

[Purple Frog]

Russ,

Just in my head, I can think of about 32 F2k entries. Those are folks that pretty much are committed to most of the season.

It is gratifying to see the interest so far in both Series. Some of us are sratching our heads a bit. For instance, Janice normally takes about 5,000 shots at an average F2KCS weekend. She can't imagine processing 10,000 frames per weekend.

[LenFC11]

russ

i thought your question was for the 1st year in f2k, otherwise mike is prolly spot on for current year.

yes i agree that the success of the f2k series will draw a lot of f1600 cars. i like you am converting a car just for this series. after racing in f2kcs i couldn't imagine going back to the non sense invloved in club racing... like the open tire rule.. ya see how successfull that is...

[mblanc]

and the only one complaing about tires isn't even on the list

I think it's an unneeded rule for............. ah points above, and expressed that opinion.
Oseth and others think it is a needed rule for..............ah points above, and politely expressed that opinion.

Len, try having a discussion, instead of attacking, or trying to dismiss/discount me, or the idea that this should even be discussed. This seems to be a legitimate and level discussion, I've made my points without criticising others, and others have made their points without getting an attitude.

I'm not the only one not on the list, There are some other conspicuous names missing. I don't think I need to be on the list to make a valid point. But if I need to answer to you, I would have been, except that on the first list, somebody had 'my' number. I am on the email notice list, if that matters.

I've brought up:
1-'History' of the class not having this rule Nationwide, and Europe. (but I guess that's like saying 'intent')
2-Significant number of competitive cars running this way (5 of top 11 Qual RO's - there's not ONLY cen-div cars that run small tires)
3-and the lack of any data that shows an advantage (RA results and trap speeds).
4-Easy implementation. (Not asking for any different tire availability).

Never once have I criticised the series, nor Mr. Rand. I appreciate the fact that it is a dictatorship, and one (guided by a few) can make quick and strong decisions. Obviously F2000 is a great series, and I've had different friends run seasons and individual races.

I'm sure this successful 'Series-to-be' with this much potential, can stand a light of day fair discussion of a controversial rule.
Why call it controversial? It is a rule that doesn't exist elsewhere in FF, nor in F2000.
It leaves out current configuration of a good number of cars, including the current and prior National Champions. Those two gentlemen have far too much class to get into an internet 'discission'. Cars are competitive against each other in both configurations, and this is a change away from the current regs.

I'm all for a spec compound, if you don't remember all my positive posts on that prior, search away.

I'm against the spec location/size rule.
I don't see any harm in leaving it open.

[racer27]

I'm against the spec location/size rule.
I don't see any harm in leaving it open.

With open size, I think the harm may be the implied need to have teams test (Expend time/money) to have to find what combination works best for them. With the size defined, racers can now focus on optimizing what they are forced to run. Some may start out with an advantage, some may not. As long as the defined size does not limit certain cars from running (I.E. Clearance issues) I don't see the harm. If people want to run open size class, they still have options with other organizations.

For someone currently without a car, trying to justify getting back in, I find this standardization appealing and commend the the series decision makers (Mike, Al and Bob) for making the decision.

[David Clubine]

Isn't the US the only spot that hasn't had a spec tire rule? Certainly England, Canada and Australia have had spec tire rules for many years. I don't see a series adopting a spec tire as being a controversial rule.

As a team owner looking at this series I give Al, Mike and Bob a thumbs up for removing a potentially expensive variable.

David Clubine
Britain West Motorsport

[M.Sauce]

Spec tire rules if written properly with a good tire enhance competition.The number of tires limited to the timed sessions does more than any specific tire could to keep anyone from having an advantage or disadvantage.I applaude the 6 tire limit for the timed sessions and races for a weekend.I am trying to work out the logistics to be able to bring 3 cars to at least 3 race weekends. I think its has the potential to be the best Formula car series in North America.Mike Sauce

[RussMcB]

Might need to start reserving 3 digit numbers soon.

[LenFC11]

mark

certainly not attacking you, i'm joining in the discussion, with some good natured ribbing. but i would say your trolling when you make statements like any east coast driver is afraid to race you or your cen div counter parts


it seems to me, the tire rule you would like is already in place... and the car counts look pretty slim. as you can see, there are a few people who think spec tire & allotment has merit. a lot of the reasons have been listed above, no need for me to beat the horse

taking a look at F2000 in club racing, where there is no tire rule as you've pointed out, you might see 5 -7 cars. in pro racing where they have the same tire rule you see fields of 30+ cars on a regular basis. hmmmmm

the rule doesn't leave out anyone, the intent is to include everyone on a level playing field. the currant national champion is listed, & doesn't seem to be complaining about the tire rule. yes for sure pro racing isn't for everyone, some like yourself will want things status quo, and you have a place to race within those established rules. others believe this will be good for the class. why do you need to have it your way before you will join in?

if the only reason you are not a registered driver is b-c someone has your #, well i say get over it, it's only a #. i had to change my # also when entering pro racing. once you've registered it shows intent to compete. as it stands now from those of us looking in, just sounds like internet whining.. whhaaa whhaaa i want my rules my way or i'm taking my ball and going home... again not attacking you, just some good natured ribbing

i never said you [FONT=Verdana]criticized [/FONT] anyone, i stated Mr Rand listens to the series competitors. if your [FONT=Verdana]opinion [/FONT]was the popular opinioin amongst those running the series, i would think he would listen. this is part of the reason for the success of the series, and why 3 weeks after registration opens for a new series there are 40+ cars waiting to compete.

sign up, come out and play, we're all starting from scratch with these tires, you will have a runoffs type [FONT=Verdana]experience [/FONT]every weekend w-o the time & cost associated.

it's my opinion that the rule will work, internet drabble is just that, mostly just to spark [FONT=Verdana]controversy[/FONT]. if the rule doesn't work Rand & the boys will listen to all opinions and make changes as needed

sorry for the long winded response. i will not take part of this debate any further, but do look forward to seeing you in paddock on the grid

[M.Sauce]

The tire rule is only one reason and not the main reason the car counts will be good in my opinion..Track time is a main reason and the entire weekend atmosphere is another.I am sure there is more. Club racing has many issues that the tire rules make seem unimportant.Stewards,track time red tape etc. I am sure there are many others.When you have a single governance(ie a dictator)it can be good and bad but at least there is only one chief and what he/she says goes.I would rather have that than the other governance with all the bureacracy and BS. The F1600 series will be a success because of consistency and the end user will enjoy the experience or he /she won't come back.If the end user is not happy the Series will fix it.In SCCA the end user does not drive the governance nor the operating side.Thats why participation is down.

[Purple Frog]

Marc,

You will receive no bashing from the Series. We heard you, and your good points. I believe at this time the argument that Ambrose laid out will still stand as the primary reason for the rule as it stands.

I can guarantee you that after the 5 weekends in 2011, all competitors and very interested parties will get a chance to answer a questionaire, and if the majority want a change, it probably will happen.

[M.Sauce]

See what I mean.The end user is important to the Series.