FF Oil for AX

[MBillings]

I'm doing winter maintenance on my autocross, Lola T644. When I bought the car last year, the owner included some Mobile-1 synthetic oil. I've seem several threads talk about the need for additiona zinc in the oil. So, what do you 'al use?

thanks,
Mike

[Lynn]

Alright, I have a Solo Vee, not a Ford, but I think this still applies. My engine builder told me to break in the engine with Shell Rotella T non-synthetic for 15 to 20 minutes then use the synthetic of my choice.

Subsequent research indicates using Royal Purple break in oil and then Royal Purple XPR. XPR has about the same ZDDP levels as Rotella T (unless on of them has changed in the last two years) and I bet the break in oil is even higher.

[Steve Demeter]

Use a racing oil after break in. Dino or synthetic is really up to your choice.

The street oils do not have zinc in any significant amount in them so as to not foul the cataylic converter.

[Dick R.]

I have always used Mobil 1 15W-50 but I haven't needed to purchase any in years so my engine hasn't experienced the current level of zddp (zinc, etc.). My engine builder says wear is minimal (it is apart for the first time since 1998 and has the equivalent of 5 normal season's use). Mobil 1 15W-50 still has fairly high levels of zddp but not as much as Redline racing oils do. My engine builder also mentioned simply using one of th zddp aftermarket additives. I will run whatever weight oil he recommends this time.

Other guys with more success at Nationals in CM than me recommend thinner synthetic racing oil. I prefer street oil given the type of use is much more like short trip street use. A typical autox course is roughly 3/4 mile. 3 to 6 runs per driver at a local event. 4 miles per event. 15 minute warm up and grid movement time per event. Sounds like a short trip car to me.

Be sure to use a thermostat for the water by the way. I use a 160 deg. I also use antifreeze even in Raleigh. Sure didn't want to lose the engine while towing in early Spring or in the garage in a cold snap. Have a good catch bottle and make sure the radiator(s) don't leak and antifreeze is just fine (never lost a drop).

I don't know what oil I would run with an air cooled engine which is an extremely severe application!

Dick
CM 85
85 VD

[aspenripper]

Amsoil dealer here free oil advise, call anytime.
716 432 8957
Ed Vargo
teachmeracing.com

[Dick R.]

FYI Valvoline sells a full synthetic racing oil which is also street legal. Available in 20W-50 and 10W-30. I don't know if this is what I saw in Autozone today since I researched it after I got home. I may have seen the nonsynthetic version. The synth version MIGHT be a good choice for autox use if you want the "street" additives. I guess I should research Amzoil also.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/co...ng-motor-oil/8

Valvoline® Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil

The advanced racing synthetic trusted by top engine builders and crew chiefs to protect in extreme racing conditions.

• Engineered to deliver maximum horsepower
• High zinc/phosphorus for extreme anti-wear, including flat tappets
• Track-proven to maintain pressure and protect from foaming
• Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
• Available at participating auto parts stores

Dick
CM 85

[EYERACE]

The "sold off the rack of all the oil in the store" kind of oil in general is not OK for older engines. The missing chemicals are found in the Valvoline racing oils. There are two sorts of these Valvoline racing oils......I haven't bought any this way but apparently one kind is sold "off the rack"....the other you must ask for because it's not put out on the store shelves. I'll get the part number and post it here later. As a substitute you can throw in some diesel engine oil in the sump. Because diesel engines have a much higher compression ratio, which puts more stress on the crank's and rod's bearings, the missing chemicals have not been taken out of diesel oil in the same way the save-the-planet people have taken it out of a gas engine's oil.

[-pru-]

Per their web site, Valvoline markets three different types of Racing Motor Oil :

~ VR1 Racing Oil (VR1)
~ Valvoline Racing Synthetic (VR1) Motor Oil
~ Valvoline Speciality Racing Oil ("Not Street Legal")

Of the three, I have found the "Not Street Legal" to be the recommended oil for the Kent.


The low-detergent, high zinc racing oil optimized for track-use only, delivers increased horspower and extreme wear protection

• High zinc/phosphorus provides extreme wear protection, including flat tappet applications
• Low detergent formula to deliver maximum horsepower on the track
• Recommended for race engines only
• Compatible with gasoline or alcohol fuels
• Available by request through NAPA, Carquest, O'Reilly, Jeg's and performance shops served by Keystone Automotive

[EYERACE]

Maybe some day Al Gore will stop you on the public roads and ask for a sample of your street car's oil. He'll keep you in solitary until the results come back. After it's discovered you were using "not legal for street use" oil, you'll be sentenced to cleaning up John Force's burn out strips with a toothbrush.

In the mean time....... go to your NAPA Dealer and ask them to get you part number VV853 5W-30 Synthetic Racing oil. I learned this from Dave Weitzenhof.....I probably misspelled his last name, sorry Dave. He posted something here a few years ago, so search Apex about it. There is another weight, maybe a 10-40?

I drive a Diesel F250 as my daily driver but if I ever get a street car with a gas engine again, I'll probably always dump one quart of this "not legal" jazz in with my off-the-rack Mobil 1 or at least the Mobil 1 oil filter.

Also..... www.filtermag.com people.

[mwood]

Bringing this one back to life...

I've been told Joe Gibbs synthetic racing oil has a good additive package for the Kent motor.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Joe-Gibbs-Raci...03688/10002/-1

Anyone have thoughts? I'm guessing XP9, based on the definitions given.

If not, are folks still running the Valvoline race? I've been running Mobil 1 15-50w, but it is time to change again.

[flat tappet]

Another choice.....Brad Penn,the original Kendall green oil for PA. Great for VEE's and other flat tappet engines! Loaded with ZDDP.

[mwood]

another note...I can't find the Valvoline Speciality 10-30w anywhere...only the 20-50w seems to be available?

[mwizard]

The previous owner of my car said use the Valvoline Specialty racing oil. They did not tell me you had to ask for it so I settled for Synthetic VR1. I will ask today.
I figured that oil changes were not too important in a car that runs about 300mi per year.
Mark

[-pru-]

another note...I can't find the Valvoline Speciality 10-30w anywhere...only the 20-50w seems to be available?

Mike,

For the past two seasons, I have purchased the Valvoline Speciality 10-30w at NAPA. NOTE : It is not a stocked item. That is, it's shipped to the store post order (at no extra cost). It was only a day or two wait before I could pick it up.

Take care,

[DanW]

If you do some research on oils for the Kent, you will find some useful information.

Here is a pretty good thread:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...light=oil+dyno

#1 ask your engine builder. It's worth it to invest in a phone call or an email.


Art Smith did some research on the dyno and found some interesting things.

He found the oil temperature above 200F during operation gave the most significant improvement in power. He recommended the oil should be fully warmed before the car goes out on track.

He found that 0W-20 gave the best power when fully warmed. If you are running 20W-50 you are giving up significant power from parasitic drag.
He also advised to use his advice and 0W-20 at your own risk.

For Valvoline VR1 Synthetic:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_synthetic.pdf

The viscosity of 20W-50 is 20.8 centistokes at 100C (212F).
The viscosity of 5W-30 is 10.8 centistokes at 100C (212F).

Therefore 20W-50 synthetic has twice the viscosity than 5W-30 and greater parasitic drag on the rings and bearings.

For Valvoline Racing 10w-30 conventional:

http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

The conventional oil is a little higher initial viscosity at 40C, but the same at 100C

Art did further work on the bottom end and shared it with the world if you are willing to read and put in some basic labor:

Power can be gained from careful attention to the inside of the block with the pan, windage trays, scapers and how the oil drains from the head and block into the pan. The same with improving vacuum in the crankcase.

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/show...t=sump+scraper


Synthetic oils have a flatter viscosity vs. temperature curve, particularly in cold weather. Most oil companies publish their technical data if you are willing to look for it. They either have their own certified labs or they use one.

My own humble experience? I have no brand preference. I have been using several brands of synthetic 5W-30 race oil with at least 1000ppm of ZDDP. I don't use an oil cooler(I plan to install an oil/water cooler to get the oil up to temp). Oil temp after a race on a 100 deg day was always below 230F.

I got 60 hours of racing and test days with no sign of unusual wear on bearings, cam or tappets at 25 and 50 hour inspections. Unfortunately I exceeded the fatigue life of the crank from too many hours and too many overrevs.

Regards,
Dan

[chrisw52]

while looking for my next fantasy antique car on hemmings blog, I found an article that is relivant to this thread...

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...older-engines/

it talks about zinc additives in modern oils and how to identify the proper oil to use in our older engines. It's interesting to note that GM still provides breakin oil that has a high zinc content to aid engine break in.

[Mike McHugh]

Red Line Synthetic Oil has a huge history of winning National Championships, and supporting the SCCA.
R/L has a Group 5 base oil (the best available, and hard to find in other brands). It flows the best when cold, holds up the best when hot.
R/L still has all the good additives in their oil. The street and (true) race oils can be mixed for some detergents to extend race oil changes.
Go to the Red Line web site for more info, or talk to those who have won with it, and dynoed engines with it, like me.

When road racing, I figured that the first lap was very important to have oils that allowed the max power to the wheels when the oils weren't warmed up all the way. Red Line is best at this, which is a good reason to use it in autocross, where a formula car can't get its oil temp up.

Yep, I sell it, since 1981.
Call for "the Deal", MC, Visa, or check.
Mike McHugh, B.A.D. Co.
(650)593-5040

[Jim Garry]

Since you are autocrossing the car it means the chances of running with under-heated oil is good. It's almost inevitable. So use a light oil. Oil brand aside, when I still had my autocross FF I ran 5-20 or something like that. I'd have to check my records.

[flat tappet]

Red Line Synthetic Oil has a huge history of winning National Championships, and supporting the SCCA.
R/L has a Group 5 base oil (the best available, and hard to find in other brands). It flows the best when cold, holds up the best when hot.
R/L still has all the good additives in their oil. The street and (true) race oils can be mixed for some detergents to extend race oil changes.
Go to the Red Line web site for more info, or talk to those who have won with it, and dynoed engines with it, like me.

When road racing, I figured that the first lap was very important to have oils that allowed the max power to the wheels when the oils weren't warmed up all the way. Red Line is best at this, which is a good reason to use it in autocross, where a formula car can't get its oil temp up.

Yep, I sell it, since 1981.
Call for "the Deal", MC, Visa, or check.
Mike McHugh, B.A.D. Co.
(650)593-5040

Shoot me...but I love the smell of 2 stroke Redline racing F500 oil in the morning(or afternoon)!!