Asking to ask: Dangerous Drivers

[Stanhy]

Formula cars tend to be more fragile. They are a blast, fast, true racecars. If I hadn't trashed my right ankle years back, I'd probably be in a CF today, however the loss of some range of motion kiboshed that.

The very nature of the beast is one of the factors behind the declining numbers today, why open wheel has been dealing with smaller and smaller fields. Simply put, they are expensive. They also are easily damaged. In fendered racing, it's not uncommon to rub and lean on each other, mostly from many cars trying to occupy the same real estate. You simply can't do that in a formula car, not and finish the race too.

In fenders, we often WILL laugh about it after the fact, as long as it didn't result in a shunt, and wasn't deliberate. But we don't tend to seek out contact either.

So what has been happening over the past decade or so, especially since the economic meltdown? New blood is going for a less expensive venue, such as SM or IT, especially when they can double dip in one car.
Maybe some will transition to open wheel, but many end up staying. That's how we get big fields. And why right now, we tend to have more incidents.
You will probably remember how SRF has had their time as the 'naughty group', as has almost every group over the years.
Whenever a group is popular, you will get that.

My irritation with the original remark stemmed not from the IT angle so much as it was from the dismissive 'those driver's are regional only' tone. Most of us who race in fendered groups hold national licenses. And it's amazing the number of people who simply don't know that, people who are long time members, hardly newbies to the sport.

It's still ALL club racing. Running in nationals does not automatically make anyone a better or worse driver. It only means you have a nationally classed car and run more than 4x a year to hold your license.

Regarding the original direction of this thread, dangerous driving, there are several ways a driver can be dangerous.
1.) Inexperience
2.) Unpredictability
3.) More ego than talent (aka "The Great I Am" syndrome)
4.) Clueless/tunnel vision/no idea of spatial awareness
5.) The rarest one, thankfully, evil bastards.

Identify and learn your fellow competitors, remember their strengths and weaknesses, and use those to your advantage. Don't knowingly put yourself into a situation where someone can take you out if you know they do that. Pick your spot instead and be patient. If someone is enough of a problem, try talking to them. If that doesn't work, use video and don't be afraid to throw paper.

[FVRacer21]

The driver in that skippy vid is Fabio Orsolon and he is one of the top drivers in the F2k Championship Series. He had a bad round in race 2 at Atlanta( and he did apologize) but other then that is a good clean aggressive racer. Quite happy to race against him.

Kevin,

These "kids" are very fast and very good. The best of the new generation; like Lewis Hamilton - take a look at any of his GP2 races. The problem is that other people think that is the way they need to drive, without the understanding that they don't have the talent!

My problem is we have an entire generation of drivers who have grown up on video games and karting, and have no respect for the equipment and the competition. Might work in pro racing but is this what we want in the SCCA?

Now also, that was a Skip Barber National Race, not a school regional race - but they are not much better (but the 4 off would have been a pit stop in the regional series I would think.)

I think the SCCA has the tools in the rules (racing room, contact, passing, etc.) but the system is so dramatic to use that most let things slide until it is too late.

ChrisZ

[Roger Eade]

I would also have had a good talk with you if I was the CoC which I also do at times, or am I correct in thinking you came into the pits to check for damage?
Roger

A Dangerous Driver Exhibit #1: stuck my nose it 3 laps in a row, on the same corner. The 4th lap i said screw this and tired to pass him, he turned right into me, and he ended up on two wheels.

Exhibit #2: I was side by side with a Miata for 1 turn and a small section leading up to the next turn and he turned right into me. Saying I shouldn't have been there, on the outside of the turn...cautiously entering so he could go first and I could follow....during the first lap of a 33 car field race. I got put into a wall. I did "throw paper" and it turned out well. I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but if they're dangerous, protest them until they realize what they're doing. He then appealed the decision, and lost.

Getting hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDl0DFA9VfA

1st incident was not an SCCA sanctioned race, and the second was an ITA race, for some reason I picked him out as the guy to hit me all weekend...guess bumping comes with fenders.

Steven

[sauce_racer]

Formula cars tend to be more fragile. They are a blast, fast, true racecars. If I hadn't trashed my right ankle years back, I'd probably be in a CF today, however the loss of some range of motion kiboshed that.

The very nature of the beast is one of the factors behind the declining numbers today, why open wheel has been dealing with smaller and smaller fields. Simply put, they are expensive. They also are easily damaged. In fendered racing, it's not uncommon to rub and lean on each other, mostly from many cars trying to occupy the same real estate. You simply can't do that in a formula car, not and finish the race too.

In fenders, we often WILL laugh about it after the fact, as long as it didn't result in a shunt, and wasn't deliberate. But we don't tend to seek out contact either.

So what has been happening over the past decade or so, especially since the economic meltdown? New blood is going for a less expensive venue, such as SM or IT, especially when they can double dip in one car.
Maybe some will transition to open wheel, but many end up staying. That's how we get big fields. And why right now, we tend to have more incidents.
You will probably remember how SRF has had their time as the 'naughty group', as has almost every group over the years.
Whenever a group is popular, you will get that.

My irritation with the original remark stemmed not from the IT angle so much as it was from the dismissive 'those driver's are regional only' tone. Most of us who race in fendered groups hold national licenses. And it's amazing the number of people who simply don't know that, people who are long time members, hardly newbies to the sport.

It's still ALL club racing. Running in nationals does not automatically make anyone a better or worse driver. It only means you have a nationally classed car and run more than 4x a year to hold your license.

Regarding the original direction of this thread, dangerous driving, there are several ways a driver can be dangerous.
1.) Inexperience
2.) Unpredictability
3.) More ego than talent (aka "The Great I Am" syndrome)
4.) Clueless/tunnel vision/no idea of spatial awareness
5.) The rarest one, thankfully, evil bastards.

Identify and learn your fellow competitors, remember their strengths and weaknesses, and use those to your advantage. Don't knowingly put yourself into a situation where someone can take you out if you know they do that. Pick your spot instead and be patient. If someone is enough of a problem, try talking to them. If that doesn't work, use video and don't be afraid to throw paper.

I think that number three has a big deal to do with why I started this post. In most cases it is the rookies, or the younger kids to watch out for. I'm a young driver, I've been racing now for almost eleven years, go-karting straight to FF's. I know the rules, and I try my hardest to race by them and not mess with anyone else.

However, some drivers will never think that they are capable of the mistakes we all make.


And when people take on that attitude, thats when people get hurt or killed.


Thanks,
Meg

[thunderracing91]

Well I suppose this thread has something to do with the accident at turn 5 at the Runoffs this year.I personally thought originally there were three factors for the incident,some of which may have already been mentioned..First racing room is always an issue and I personally try to leave room whenever overtaking or any other time.I made an error in judgement because that racing room changed very quickly.I should have anticipated that and I did not.Secondly I did not expect the rear brakes to lock up the way they did.I am glad I found the issue,the right rear rotor had broken between the alloy hat and the mouunting to the rotor area.I am sure that did not help.Finally while turning back to the left as the racing room changed that also was a factor helping the rears lock up.Many of the competitors in the race have raced with me for years and others have not.I am not inexperienced and rarely make this kind of mistake.It happened, I cannot change it and have the experience to move forward from it hoping for better results next time.I know the angst of Reid Hazelton because of this incident and have apologized to him and any others who were maleffected.I am sure his frustration from the pole to 8th by turn 5 where we got together was his worst scenario.I hope both of us have better luck next year.Racing at the Runoffs is a crap shoot at best.I have started from the pole and had a flat tire while leading.I have been taken out in the first corner.The point is Sh--t happens and it will always be that way.

I tend to agree with Mike on this. I have been racing for 18yrs between karts and formula fords. We are all a bunch of idiots out there and if you go out there with the attitude of "expect the worst and hope for the best" and you finish the race, its a good day right? At least its a good day for me, although Im a simple man with a simple plan.............

[EYERACE]

Dangerous Drivers qualify for that label based on many different ideas......

First, the driver that uses a braking point well in advance of everyone else. One kind would be, to quote the Purple Frog, that 'shiny new driver's suit' fellow who has rented a very very fast car and has little experience....so he doesn't understand that in general open wheel cars are momentum cars....so you don't brake WAY BACK THERE when no one else is expecting it. A second kind [1A] would be the possibly even well experienced guy who's trying to mess with you when you're drafting him by braking way too early.

Second, the "lineless" driver that doesn't follow a racing line so he's going to get in someone's way at the wrong moment for the other driver in a corner....or blocks at the end of straights when it's clear to all he was easily being reeled in by the closing car. Definition 2A can be still thought of as "lineless" because they make that attempted inside pass by braking WAY TOO LATE and hit the other driver amidship. 2B drives in the grass too often.

Third, the driver that will ignore a flag....be it yellow or blue. Most of us have missed a checker once over the years but that's generally accidental. I'm not saying it's not a dangerous thing to miss a checker - it just doesn't qualify for the definition of being a Dangerous Driver if it's happened once.

Fourth, the pharmacologically challenged driver.....be it smoked the day before or pills the night before or wakes up rather hung over for an early race. One's got to know when to not keep picking up the pitcher the night before a race.

Fifth, the driver who thinks it's OK if open wheel cars touch occasionally, so he'll do it to others on purpose. Hard to prove, so equally hard to apply to someone. Continued action of this nature could lead to definition 5A......the driver's name being used as a verb....see #2 to perhaps gain verb status too.

Sixth, the poorly preped cheap car driver that passes the annual anyway.....the driver that does not mind consistently using substandard tires/old pads/rarely bleeds brakes/simply wipes up or off oil leaks rather than fixing/never does a nut & bolt/etc. Someday it will bite someone, it may not be that driver.

There are others.....do please add them to an interesting thread.

[JohnPaul]

This thread should be required reading for anyone that races (new and old) . It's like a one stop guide to not being a douche bag on the race track. no nonsense, exactly the right attitude when you have a bunch of guys on a track driving at high speeds at the limit. I find it very informative as a new driver, seriously.