mechanical auto-blipping?

[Herman Pahls]

Mechanical auto-blipping ( cable or linkage operated ) was mentioned in the Geartronics discussion. I assume that when down shifting a cable pulls on the throttle pedal a predetermined amount to simulate the heal-toe method of driving. Obviously the mechanical throttle blip will be identical for each downshift regardless of car speed. The Geartronics closed loop system probably perfectly matches the RPM of the blip to the gear being selected and the speed of the car to create a flawless shift. Would someone please discribe how you drive and adjust the mechanical blipper. Is the clutch used or not? I assume the rate of the blip would vary with the leverages between shifter and the pedal and the amount of blip could be also adjusted.
Thanks Herman

[Northwind]

I was waiting for someone to ask about this system. It is currently in the production stage and will be tested shortly on another car other then mine that was the protoype version. The kit will be available through Novarace cars. Jay can go into futher detail about availbility.

The one thing that I can address is that, yes it does funtion as you descibe, but there are some variables that have shown them selves to benfit the design as originally intended. First off you would think that the Blip is a fixed rpm based on the mechanical geometry involved but it is not. There actually is a dwell time that comes into play when the throttle is pulled. As you pull on the shift lever the following happens; The slower you pull back on the shift lever the higher the rpm will climb based on the engine response time until the shift actually occurs. The faster the shift lever is pulled the lower the rpm blips. Again based on engine response time. This was not planned into the design but has turned out to be beneficial as the driver has some control over rpm on each shift. I have my car set up to blip at about 8000 rpm. If I hurry the down shift sequence, the blip rpm is around 7000 rpm. If I slow the shift sequence the Blip rpm has shown to about 8600 rpm. The blipper system will be adjustable so that the car it fits, the installer will be able to set a middle ground rpm range of their liking based on cable position and the flexiblity of that rpm will be in your hands. (pun intended) NOTE: The production version may vary based on design limitations from variations in chassis design.

[JohnPaul]

[FONT=Verdana]this system sounds awesome. I really hope it becomes the "go to" auto blipper because of costs. I currently use the flatshifter with the autoblipper that cost around $2k and takes a professional to install (additional $$) I'm a firm believer in an autoblip system for various reasons (engine longevity, better driver control etc.). Anything that makes a driver more in control (safer) and more competitive at a low price is ok in my book and I hope that it becomes the big trend.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana]BTW: I come from roadracing motorcycles so the heel/toe thing is too confusing (and [FONT=Calibri]Unnecessary[/FONT]), why does knowing how to do this make you a better racer?? it doesn't. I'm not interested in getting used to it at this point in my life to be competitive. The autoblip allows me to be more in control and concentrate on driving smooth and being conscience of my surroundings. Can I learn to heel/toe and still be competitive, no doubt, but why? We're in the 21 century and most of the people that are pissed are old or don't race to begin with. This is what is being used in just about every motorsports arena anyway. So if this system only costs $200 and the complainers can get one also and then have nothing to complain about when they are still at the back of the back, great![/FONT]

[Jnovak]

We will be testing our 1st prototype system next week. I will post the results.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[Herman Pahls]

Northwind
Your response indicates you were the inventor. The concept seems simple and makes me wonder why it was not invented sooner for sequentials. I am sure that putting the concept into action may not have been so simple.
I am curious how you came up with the 8000 plus or minus blip RPM to be ideal?
I assume you adjusted the blip RPM until the down-shifts felt smooth and then your data logger told you the RPM.
Help me understand when you would choose to execute a down-shift slow for more blip and and fast for less blip.
I can see why the geartronics system is appealing.It does the thinking for you.
Is the idea that the blip starts in the freeplay our shifters have before the shift drum actually is engaged to take the load off the dogs to allow the downshift without the clutch?
I am impressed that you came up with the idea.
Herman

[Northwind]

Herman,

I am out of town working currently with not much time for a lengthy reply. I will send you a PM when I get back home with my phone number. You can call me and we will discuss at length any of your questions. Just to let you in on a bit of design history. I design surgical equipment for neurosurgeons (brain and spine surgeons) for a living. These guys tend to be pretty demanding for reliable and simple to use products.Kind of like us racers.

[Herman Pahls]

Northwind
I look forward to speaking with you when your time permits.
Thanks Herman Oregon 541 404 6464

[lancer360]

Will this system fit a F600 or can it be adapted? The proposed rules for F600 require an all mechanical shift mechanism with no electronic aids. A mechanical blipper rigged off the paddle shifter or shifter cable sounds like a great way to go.

[mario_zgb]

how does mechanical auto-blipping comply with this rule?


[FONT=Univers-Bold]

Accelerator Pedal – [/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]A foot-operated device which allows the driver to[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]vary the degree of opening of the induction system throttle(s).[/FONT]
[FONT=Univers][FONT=Univers][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Univers][FONT=Univers]NOTE: Should any of the definitions contained in this Glossary appear to
[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]be in conflict with a specific rule, then the GCR or Specification Book will[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]take precedence.[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]it's on page 121 of rule book[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]is there any other rule that would allow throttle to be operated by other means?[/FONT][/FONT]

[JohnPaul]

Interesting, but you still use your foot to accelerate, the shifter is only used to blip. Although I'm sure someone can argue that it wouldn't be legal by overly confusing word play....I wouldn't know because I'm not type that does ****ty things like that, unlike some other people...

[mario_zgb]

Interesting, but you still use your foot to accelerate, the shifter is only used to blip. Although I'm sure someone can argue that it wouldn't be legal by overly confusing word play....I wouldn't know because I'm not type that does ****ty things like that, unlike some other people...

i agree with you... but where does "operating" fit into... accelerating, blipping or both?

[Wren]

[FONT=Univers]

[FONT=Univers]is there any other rule that would allow throttle to be operated by other means?[/FONT][/FONT]

9.3.7 allows the use of hand controls on a case-by-case basis by the Club Racing Technical Manager

That rule is very much aimed at allowing people with disabilities to have hand control of throttle and brakes. The letter of the rule probably does not allow systems like this, but who knows how it would be interpreted.

[Paul LeCain]

GCR:

[FONT=Univers-Bold]
[FONT=Univers-Bold]9.3.7. AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS AND HAND CONTROLS[/FONT]
[/FONT]


[FONT=Univers][FONT=Univers]

Automatic transmissions are prohibited in all classes. However, the use of

[/FONT]

[FONT=Univers]alternative transmissions, including automatic transmissions, and/or hand [/FONT][FONT=Univers]controls may be approved on a case-by-case basis. Such approval shall [/FONT][FONT=Univers]be in writing from the Club Racing Technical Manager and shall be in the [/FONT][FONT=Univers]driver’s possession at all competitions.[/FONT]

Whoops. Posts crossed in the ether.

[/FONT]

[lancer360]

I can't remember who I was talking to about this, but they thought some FSAE cars have used this concept. I'm game to be the guinea pig for a F600 car. Jay designed and built my car so he would have some good input on how to implement it.

[Wren]

I can't remember who I was talking to about this, but they thought some FSAE cars have used this concept. I'm game to be the guinea pig for a F600 car. Jay designed and built my car so he would have some good input on how to implement it.

About 5 years ago I designed a paddle shifter for our FSAE car that had two paddles on the left side, one for downshifting and one for clutch. When you pulled the downshift paddle it would also pull the clutch paddle just enough to make the downshift pretty smooth. I never really thought to try it on the throttle since we were used to using the clutch.

The car had no clutch pedal at all and the downside to this was that the cable operated clutch made the paddle kind of stiff. It was also a little bit hard to find the clutch in a spin or trying to stop unexpectedly.

Someone should probably write the CRB and try to get them to clarify the F600 and probably FB rules to specifically allow mechanical throttle blippers. The system really is very cool.

[Alex Pate]

The geartronics auto blip is a set blip determined through testing on what will allow a smooth shift. All it is is a pneumatic ram rod that is either on or off. Once the % of throttle blip has been set that's where it stays

[Herman Pahls]

Wren
The concept of the shifter kart paddle also releaseing the clutch is a great idea other than the added pressure needed to shift.
My experience has been that morse cable actvated shifters have more drag than a direct push-pull rods unless the morse cable is nearly straight.
What if the paddle was activating micro switches in both up and down shift direction and an electrical selenoid was activating the clutch.
The selenoid could be attached to the clutch pedal so it would not interfere with normal start and stop clutch operation.
Add the cable operated blip for downshifts and one might have a " very poor mans "
Geartronics.
Herman

[Jnovak]

We will have the D.R. blipper maechanical throttle blipper on out NovaKar 600 at the ARRC.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[cooleyjb]

Are you going to be at the ARRC Jay? Or just your car?

[Jnovak]

I will be there with the car.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[BennyBad]

jay

i would be interested in this also for my stohr wf 1 . please let me know

thanks

benny

[Neil Wallace]

The geartronics auto blip is a set blip determined through testing on what will allow a smooth shift. All it is is a pneumatic ram rod that is either on or off. Once the % of throttle blip has been set that's where it stays

That's not quite the whole story, In fact, it's far far more complex than that. It's true that the physical travel of the blipper remains the same, but the timing of the blip is dynamically adjusted depending upon the shift drum position. There are also ignition cuts involved in the downshift sequence, the reasons for which have to remain confidential for obvious reasons.

Neil.