Description of RFR F1000 Race Car problem (Misfiring)

[nicho]

Is there anyone out there that can help with a problem I'm having with my Suzuki powered race car (2008 GSXR 1000 motor)?

The problem I'm having is when I stand on the throttle between aprox. 5,000 RPMs to red line the engine is misfiring no power, almost like it's on the rev limiter. The engine idles perfect and mid range rpm is great it's only when I get into the upper rpm range it has this problem. One other thing I would add (maybe unrelated) , the Aim dash I have in the car stops working when I run the car up into the rev's.

Things I have tried and am going to try-

1 checked the spark plugs (all hot and good color to them)
2 checked compression in all cylinders (160 PSI)
3 Replace fuel (110 Octane Turbo Blue)
4 Replace main master switch (Hella UL rated Switch)
5 Bypassed the Ignition switch
6 Replaced battery
7 Checked all ground connections
8 Going to check fuel injection system (send out for cleaning)
9 checked color of exhaust tip (good color to it)
10?????????????

I would appreciate any help!

Nicho

[Brands]

Have you checked fuel pressure? I had a very similar problem with my car. The fuel pressure looked good when checked so I ignored it. It turned out that inside the fuel cell there was a cheap fitting that had started to fail and was leaking. If I had been more switched on whenI checked the fuel pressure I would have noticed that it reached a good level, but would not go any higher as I adjusted it. It would run to about 5000rpm and then as fuel demand increased the internal leak would bleed away fuel pressure and the engine would miss. At this point it was spewing out inside the tank. I'm not sure what the RFR tank looks like but on my car (Elan DP-04) I can remove the top and peer inside. I switched on the pump and there it was spraying fuel. I would not be supprised that your car is similar to mine in that they are designed by the same guy. Worth a check anyway!

[Wren]

Sounds like a grounding problem. Check all of the wires running into the yellow block that is somewhere in your wiring harness.

Who did your harness?

Calling George Dean is always a good answer to problems like these. He is really, really busy right now though.

[JohnPaul]

I had a similar problem, the electric motor that opens the butterfly's on the throttle body wasn't working and wasn't opening completely.

[nicho]

QuickSilver built and installed the motor.

Sounds like a grounding problem. Check all of the wires running into the yellow block that is somewhere in your wiring harness.

Who did your harness?

Calling George Dean is always a good answer to problems like these. He is really, really busy right now though.

[nicho]

Fuel pressure reads 45PSI.

Have you checked fuel pressure? I had a very similar problem with my car. The fuel pressure looked good when checked so I ignored it. It turned out that inside the fuel cell there was a cheap fitting that had started to fail and was leaking. If I had been more switched on whenI checked the fuel pressure I would have noticed that it reached a good level, but would not go any higher as I adjusted it. It would run to about 5000rpm and then as fuel demand increased the internal leak would bleed away fuel pressure and the engine would miss. At this point it was spewing out inside the tank. I'm not sure what the RFR tank looks like but on my car (Elan DP-04) I can remove the top and peer inside. I switched on the pump and there it was spraying fuel. I would not be supprised that your car is similar to mine in that they are designed by the same guy. Worth a check anyway!

[drdestructo]

Does the fuel pressure read that figure at higher rpm where it is not running well?

[Brands]

Yeah, mine would read 45psi when I checked it stationary. See if you can get more pressure by winding the regulator screw in. It's just another thing to check, I'm not saying that is the problem. Like I say, with my car it had all the hallmarks of an electrical fault or a fuel injector issue. I now run a fuel pressure sensor as part of the data logger.

JP - You may want to check yours at some point. I can e-mail you more specific details.

[DSRDAVE]

I've had several voltage regulators fail over the years that would react that way also. The AIM dash will go blank and it will start backfiring but idle fine. Plugged injectors will do the same but they do not affect the dash.

[nicho]

I'll try using a supplement power source in the car to keep the aim dash functioning so I can get a fuel pressure reading in the higher revs. Although I did rev the motor to 8,000rpm in a stationary position and did not get any problems. I would think I need a load on the car to make the problem surface.
Thanks!

Does the fuel pressure read that figure at higher rpm where it is not running well?

[nicho]

I just ordered a new rectifier/volt rgulator. I give it a try.
Thanks!

I've had several voltage regulators fail over the years that would react that way also. The AIM dash will go blank and it will start backfiring but idle fine. Plugged injectors will do the same but they do not affect the dash.

[starkejt]

I just ordered a new rectifier/volt rgulator. I give it a try.
Thanks!

Do you have the service manual? There is a procedure in there for testing your rectifier and your generator with a multimeter.

[DSRDAVE]

Be careful when ordering a rectifier. There are new aftermarket one's out there that do not have the service life of the OEM part. I have better luck with the used one's. Heat is a killer on these. I had to move mine around to find a better mounting area to help with cooling. And yes, you need to have the engine loaded to have the problem until the rectifier fails completely. Thx, dave.

[Nicholas Belling]

reference check your rectifier before just spending money. its in the manual and its resistance checks.. very easy 5 minutes.

[starkejt]

reference check your rectifier before just spending money. its in the manual and its resistance checks.. very easy 5 minutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I've only done it once, but don't you need a multimeter with a diode test mode?

[ghickman]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I've only done it once, but don't you need a multimeter with a diode test mode?

The answer to this is YES

GH

[starkejt]

The answer to this is YES

GH

i was roughly 99.8% sure of that, but not quite curious enough to check the book.

[nicho]

Thanks for the gut check. I'm starting to become disillusioned. I know it's something simple.

update

-45-47 PSI of fuel pressure through 9,000 rpm's under no load
-battery checks out (charging system working, 12.9volts at the battery/13.7volts when running
-ignition switch checks out (by passed)
-main shut off switch checks out
-all grounds are good

i'm moving on to the ecu and fuel system now

-talked to a AMA pro mechanic yesterday and he mentioned that you should be able to visially see the high rpm secondary injectors come on in the throtle body. tryed this and did not see the secondary injectors come on. mybe clogged injectors or fuel mapping problem from ecu.

i thought I was buying a ready to go race car. I guess this is what I get for buying something that is not driving of the track running with a checkered flag flying from the cock pit!

reference check your rectifier before just spending money. its in the manual and its resistance checks.. very easy 5 minutes.

[Wren]

mybe clogged injectors or fuel mapping problem from ecu.

i thought I was buying a ready to go race car. I guess this is what I get for buying something that is not driving of the track running with a checkered flag flying from the cock pit!

these injectors can clog from just sitting. It doesn't take long.

George Dean can fix you up for $8 per injector for
cleaning.

[starkejt]

these injectors can clog from just sitting. It doesn't take long.

George Dean can fix you up for $8 per injector for
cleaning.

Or, if George is too busy getting eleventy motors done for the runoffs, Pro Flow Technologies has the same ASNU injector service machine and can turn them around quickly.

[Nicholas Belling]

....

[nicho]

Thanks for the advice! You guys are very helpful!
the car has been setting for 6-7 months

[nicho]

Thanks for the info

[glenn cooper]

I wonder if the throttle bodies have been off recently or maybe just had wiring disconnected from ea injector?
Make sure the harness is hooked up to the primary and secondary injectors correctly.
I had a similar problem at Barber last year and switching of many components: harness, ECU, throttle bodies, etc...

I ended up sending throttle bodies/injectors/harness/and ECU to George and it turned out some injectors needed cleaning. Keep in mind that the car ran flawlessly a feew weeks prior at the last race, so injector clogging/restricting can happen pretty quickly, ESPECIALLY if the car is fed BS pump gas (I do not).

Hope your problem is easy to straighten out, I don't think the seller sold you a car w/ a problem, only that the car developed a problem from sitting.

Good luck, Coop

[nicho]

Hi Glenn Used a noid lite test on the injectors . No signal to the high rpm secondaries. Found my problem!!
Now how to fix it?

1. ECU ( secondary driver bad/ wrong map / different ECU on the car when it raced)?
2. Wiring harness?


Nicho

I wonder if the throttle bodies have been off recently or maybe just had wiring disconnected from ea injector?
Make sure the harness is hooked up to the primary and secondary injectors correctly.
I had a similar problem at Barber last year and switching of many components: harness, ECU, throttle bodies, etc...

I ended up sending throttle bodies/injectors/harness/and ECU to George and it turned out some injectors needed cleaning. Keep in mind that the car ran flawlessly a feew weeks prior at the last race, so injector clogging/restricting can happen pretty quickly, ESPECIALLY if the car is fed BS pump gas (I do not).

Hope your problem is easy to straighten out, I don't think the seller sold you a car w/ a problem, only that the car developed a problem from sitting.

Good luck, Coop

[glenn cooper]

Do you have a Suzuki service manual? I'm not familiar with the test procedure, but know that the secondary injectors come on line at a certain rpm and add to the primaries.

I know that that car had been run at last years ARRC on test day or quallie for sure.

Definitely one advantage to having spares ready to go such as a rack of throttle bodies, ECU, volt regulator, and especially a done up harness.

I don't know who did the harness for that car, but I can tell you that a GDRE harness is the way to go. I have tried others and failed - never again.

GC

[nicho]

A pro AMA mechanic that runs gsxr 1000 motors told me that if you run the motor up to 8,000rpm you can visually see the secondaries start to spray into the throttle body.
I did not see any mist or squirting nothing and I used the noid test kit to confirm.

Nicho

Do you have a Suzuki service manual? I'm not familiar with the test procedure, but know that the secondary injectors come on line at a certain rpm and add to the primaries.

I know that that car had been run at last years ARRC on test day or quallie for sure.

Definitely one advantage to having spares ready to go such as a rack of throttle bodies, ECU, volt regulator, and especially a done up harness.

I don't know who did the harness for that car, but I can tell you that a GDRE harness is the way to go. I have tried others and failed - never again.

GC

[starkejt]

So do you have the factory Suzuki manual? If not, you should get it because there are straightforward procedures for testing all of these components, as well as a full wiring schematic.

[nicho]

Got it. Thanks! I'm liking the George Dean Wiring harness very clean not a lot of sh$%^& on it. Found a cold solder connection on one ground cable. wires where not touching each other only through the solder, not good. rear sproket has chewed up teeth/ rivetted link on chain poorley done. man when is it going to end

So do you have the factory Suzuki manual? If not, you should get it because there are straightforward procedures for testing all of these components, as well as a full wiring schematic.

[starkejt]

The aluminum sprockets don't last that long. We discard the chain and rear sprocket after 3 weekends. The steel front sprockets last longer. Also, Coop brings up a good point about it being easy to plug the connectors into the injectors wrong. Take a bright orange paint marker and mark each connector uniquely to make it easy to reconnect them quickly at the track.

[nicho]

Cool thanks! You guys are great! I didn't reallize how great of a resource ApexSpeed can be. Hope I can get back on the track before the seasons gone!

The aluminum sprockets don't last that long. We discard the chain and rear sprocket after 3 weekends. The steel front sprockets last longer. Also, Coop brings up a good point about it being easy to plug the connectors into the injectors wrong. Take a bright orange paint marker and mark each connector uniquely to make it easy to reconnect them quickly at the track.

[JohnPaul]

Cool thanks! You guys are great! I didn't reallize how great of a resource ApexSpeed can be. Hope I can get back on the track before the seasons gone!

Really a great bunch of guys. On the MC racers forums everyone is helpful but love to bust balls and abuse ,you almost don't want to ask a stupid question, it's actually hilarious and part of the scene I guess, also great guys but a much tougher crowd!

[glenn cooper]

Really a great bunch of guys. On the MC racers forums everyone is helpful but love to bust balls and abuse ,you almost don't want to ask a stupid question, it's actually hilarious and part of the scene I guess, also great guys but a much tougher crowd!

I'll 2nd that emotion!
Not to mention that they are extremely territorial for the most part, sort of a "locals only" surf spot mentality.
Pretty sure most of the guys on the bike sites are considerably younger, maybe that has something to do with it.
Also, many of them can't spell to save their life.
Further proof of the decline of western civilization? Yep!

[drdestructo]

RE: Not to mention that they are extremely territorial for the most part, sort of a "locals only" surf spot mentality.
Pretty sure most of the guys on the bike sites are considerably younger, maybe that has something to do with it.
Also, many of them can't spell to save their life.
Further proof of the decline of western civilization? Yep!

At Miller we often race together using opposite halves of the track. The bike guys do have one thing over us and it is nice when we are racing together.........they bring some nice talent to the track....and I ain't talking driving talent........

Everyone has their pluses and minuses!

[kea]

Now I think you can see why Max was trying to get you to purchase a F/Ford!

[Wren]

Now I think you can see why Max was trying to get you to purchase a F/Ford!

Good point. I don't think that emulsion tubes have ever clogged on one of those.

[nicho]

I still here Max saying you need something that is anvil that will be consistency lap after lap more seat time and less wrenching. This might be a rich man's class of racing. A kind of class were you arrive and drive. The only problem is the FF are sooo 1980's. I still love the car though! I'll get through this I hope.

Now I think you can see why Max was trying to get you to purchase a F/Ford!

[bireldealer]

Nicho I PM'ed you. Sorry your still having a problem since we spoke last week. We would be happy to pick it up after the runoffs and sort it out for you on the chassis dyno. Will be back in Indy on the 27th. Give me a call.

Bill

[JohnPaul]

I hope it's not the old bannana in the tailpipe.