2010 FB Runoffs

[Wren]

For what it is worth, I have never even met Brandon and don't think I know Wren as I don't even know his real name, just followed their hard work here.

my real name is actually Wren Keith

While I am on my soapbox, people that didn't think FB would be a fairly expensive class had to be on something. A class where you can always upgrade to newer motors, relatively open chassis requirements, etc is not going to save anyone money. I remember a lot of people saying that for just a grand or so you can swap out your old powerplant and tranny at the end of the year for the newest one and save so much money....rrrriiiiiiiigggghhhhttt.

Brandon and Tom are both on wrecked 07-08 bike motors that have never been opened up or touched.

[andyllc]

Wren
What I meant about the engines wasn't necessarily that it had to be a built motor, just that there was a lot of talk about every year instead of rebuilding to just buy a year newer model from the bike manufacturer of choice. That plus the rumored Ducati motor and now at the Runoffs the hyped BMW motor that was supposed to have 20 hp extra or whatever and people worrying if it was going to obsolete everything else.

[JohnPaul]

does anyone know if speedcasttv will have the FB race on it? if so, when?

[KevinFirlein]

12:30 pm eastern tomorrow grouped with FA

[JohnPaul]

nice!

[Richard Dziak]

The implication of "cheating" clearly questions the INTEGRITY of the F1000
driver(s) mentioned and the entire class.

For those F1000 owners that have been with their cars for many years or have been here on ApexSpeed should know that our class of FB driver/owners are all "class" people.

I could not believe that any FB owner/driver that I know of, especially those that have entered the SCCA National Runoffs would even think of "cheating".

It's quite sad to even see this type of langauge within our forum, and the F1000 FB Class of owner/drivers.

The end result of winning takes in a mulitude of factors to be a winning driver. Let's not forget that.

[mario_zgb]

i agree 100% with you Richard... different interpretation of the same rule is not a cheating

and i also agree on winning factors... unfortunately some factors depend on driver's budget too

[Daryl DeArman]

The implication of "cheating" clearly questions the INTEGRITY of the F1000 driver(s) mentioned and the entire class.

Richard,

I'd be a lot more pissed if I thought my integrity was being questioned as opposed to my interpretation of a rule.

With the schedule the way it is, with the protest fees structured the way they are, no sense in getting ones' panties in a wad over getting protested.

If you are being protested, and you have nothing to hide, you win on multiple counts. 1) You are found compliant. 2) You can be flattered that the protestee didn't think you could be that fast without cheating. 3) You are obviously in their head, especially when found legal. WIN WIN WIN

Absolutely, winning a race involves a multitude of factors. Many of those factors are quite small contributors that end up adding up to a significant difference.

[Wren]

The implication of "cheating" clearly questions the INTEGRITY of the F1000
driver(s) mentioned and the entire class.

For those F1000 owners that have been with their cars for many years or have been here on ApexSpeed should know that our class of FB driver/owners are all "class" people.

I could not believe that any FB owner/driver that I know of, especially those that have entered the SCCA National Runoffs would even think of "cheating".

It's quite sad to even see this type of langauge within our forum, and the F1000 FB Class of owner/drivers.

The end result of winning takes in a mulitude of factors to be a winning driver. Let's not forget that.

Richard, that is a little naïve. People do try quite hard and sometimes it crosses the line.

[KodaBear]

It's nice to see some rivalry between "teams/factories"....good for the class. Too bad it couldn't be handled with more class, less chess pounding and stone throwing. Maybe it is just the emotions of the whole week altering normal behaviour, maybe not.



Richard,

I'd be a lot more pissed if I thought my integrity was being questioned as opposed to my interpretation of a rule.

With the schedule the way it is, with the protest fees structured the way they are, no sense in getting ones' panties in a wad over getting protested.

If you are being protested, and you have nothing to hide, you win on multiple counts. 1) You are found compliant. 2) You can be flattered that the protestee didn't think you could be that fast without cheating. 3) You are obviously in their head, especially when found legal. WIN WIN WIN

Absolutely, winning a race involves a multitude of factors. Many of those factors are quite small contributors that end up adding up to a significant difference.

+1

Being protested (knowing your legal) is good, no sense in complaining about it.

[JohnPaul]

hello

[ghickman]

Anyone hear what the official outcome of the bodywork protest against the Citation bodywork was? My guess is it had to do with the Aero cuffs they have mounted on the floors forward of the rear tires and the width of the floors....just a guess.

Care to chime in Wren?

GH
FB #76

[Mike B]

It had to do with the width and whether they are bodywork or not. BECAUSE Brandon has the kick-ups in front of the tire, the floors were ruled "bodywork" and legal. Tom Schwietz's car has the same floors but no kick-ups so they ruled his car illegal. He is adding some kick-ups to make the floors bodywork and thus be legal.
There was a lengthy ruling in a similar situation but with Jacek Mucha's FA car that came into play and helped the Citation guys and the tech guys.

[JohnPaul]

It had to do with the width and whether they are bodywork or not. BECAUSE Brandon has the kick-ups in front of the tire, the floors were rules "bodywork." Tom Schwietz's car has the same floors but no kick-ups so they rules his car illegal. He is adding some kick-ups to make the floors bodywork and thus be legal.
There was a lengthy ruling in a similar situation but with Jacek Mucha's FA car that came into play and helped the Citation guys and the tech guys.

So what happens to their qualifying?

[Mike B]

So what happens to their qualifying?

Schwietz keeps his Q times...still on the pole.

[JohnPaul]

good

[ghickman]

Looks like I nailed it....thanks for the update Mike. Some rather nitpicky stuff in my opinion but rules are rules. Call the floors a "bracket" problem solved.

GH
FB #76

[Mike B]

Somewhat nitpicky, but some folks thought they were in a grey area or outright illegal so this clears it up and helps define the rule so we can all move forward.

[mario_zgb]

hehe... why bother with rules if you can get around them?

just allow wider floors and don't waste people's time at the impound... the same with pre-selected gear change... keep it simple and straight forward

and let us get back to enjoying racing

[Brandon Dixon]

The protest related to the width of the floor.

My car was found compliant by the SOM, Tom's car was ruled non-compliant by the SOM. His car was reconfigured in a matter of minutes to satisfy the SOM.

I have not been contacted about an appeal, so it appears that the protest will end with the SOM. It would have been interesting to appeal the decision on Tom's car to the COA, but the fix is easy and I'd like to just focus on the race.

[Richard Dziak]

Wren:

My comment and post about INTEGRITY to our F1000 class was meant to be positive and meaningful.

Appearently you did not see it that way, and is a shame that you might think the guys you are racing against are cheating or are cheaters. Sad assumption.

I would bet that the SCCA National Race goes smoothly on 9-25-2010 and without protests or rules violations, or illegal incidents.

I am not naive, I am realistic that the F1000 driver/racers are men of dignity and deserve respect and represent our class in a positive and professional manner.

May the best driver win. It could be anybody in the field.

I'll be watching the live internet TV broadcast tomorrow and many others will also.

I wish your team the best ....as well as every F1000 team that is entered in the event.

I have respect for every F1000 driver and know they will represent the class very well.

It's time to go racing.

Good luck guys.

[ghickman]

Brandon
Just to clarify...they found your car legal because you had "Bodywork" attached to the floors which made the width of the floors legal....and Tom's car was found not legal because he didn't have "Bodywork" attached to them which then made the width of his floors illegal? By attaching those aero cuffs in front of the wheel his would then be legal? Obviously all part of the maximum bodywork width rule...nice

Somewhat confussing....

Good luck tomorrow Brandon

GH
FB #76

[mario_zgb]

primary intent of the floor rule is to limit the floor width (as far as i understand), which will limit the downforce provided... so accepting wider floor as a part of bodywork defeat the purpose of that rule... obviously rules are not explicit enough but they're still rules

bodywork infront of wheels? open wheel class...? got me confused hehe... oh well

i don't see any problems with any car design on the field... rules...? even the f1 guys keep rephrazing their rules

[Rick Kean]

I congratulate Brandon for winning the protest. I failed to envision such a clever interpretation.

Best of luck to all the F1000 competitors today. No full course

Rick

[KevinFirlein]

bloody hell. what a ragged start

[RussMcB]

Terrible luck for Jeremy. What a disappointing ending for both JRO and Hill.

At least the Speedcast is showing plenty of FB along with FA.

[KevinFirlein]

with a mixed field double yellow is a disaster

and the start split was waaaaay to big

[JohnPaul]

Dixon broke into the 07's

[Richard Dziak]

Congratulations to Brandon Dixon..........great race and lots of fun to watch.

[KevinFirlein]

congrats to Brandon and Tom

restart was the worst ever, but it was better to race the final lap

[RobLav]

Congrats to everyone. Too bad about the tangle at the start.

In FA, Speedcast said Wilcox went to the pits after the race. Doesn't that disqualify his win?

[jjstecher]

Great race guys. Really makes me miss having my car. Crazy start and the restart was pure junk. I don't quite get why the split start was SOOOOO wide. I mean hell make it S/F and entering T14. Dumb.

I like how Brandons one comment after the race was about the shifter given all the comments here...

[Purple Frog]

I was wearing my new red Citation hat that Wren gave me on Monday, sitting in front of the PC 'watching'.

Brandon is a very fitting competitor to be the first ever FB National Champion. Tons and tons of development work to get the car ready. Improving his own driving skills as the year went on. And an all around nice guy. Congratulations Brandon!

And now... will Wren go to Siebkins and chill?

[DonArm]

Congrats Brandon and Tom and to their crew

[KelleyHux]

FYI on David Wilcox (FA winner) -

He went to his pit box (still in the pit lane, but well past where the interview section was set up) and thus still under control of the officials. A little overexuberance/excitement on his part, and a little faux pas on the officials part.

He was able to do the pit lane interview albeit after all the others. He also did the victory lap, and I anticipate he will come through tech with flying colors.

Kelley Huxtable
"PLAY SAFE"
DMVR

[Brakeguy1]

Dear Readers

I have been reading the 6 pages or so of who has the best motors, aero, paddle shift, intent and driver skills. In my opinion its what makes FB(1000's) so appealing especially when you consider this is it's start up year for the National Championship at the 2010 SCCA Runoffs.

YES, it is the package, the commitment and the pursuit of excellence that separates the guys who continue to win and those who don't. It's never just one detail, its every detail......Being clever in the execution, you bet.

It's why racing isn't for wussies and just being on the grids these days takes a very special focus. And for me personally, its a lot more fun being competitive than being a whiner for perceived advantages, real or not. When I get my our ass kicked and its within the rules package, I figure we better get to work.....its that simple.

Congratulations to Brandon and Tom for finishing 1-2 in the inaugural FB National Runoffs!! Thank You for choosing PFC Z55 Zero Drag calipers (2-pot by the way) PFC discs (single plane not vented) and PFC pads (legendary performance). Great effort, Great result.

It's never just one detail, its every detail......

Darrick Dong

[R. Pare]

First off, congrats to Brandon! Very deserving winner who put in a ton of hard work to get the car up to its current state - not bad for a kit of sometimes disparate parts!

Who else finished where? It's not up on the SCCA web site yet.

As to the bodywork:

Amusing that some who were heavily involved in the writing of the rules now claim that they did not foresee this - both Rennie and I , and possibly someone else, pointed all this out here on this forum back when there was a long discussion about how there needed to be a limit to how far the sidepod bottoms could stick out past the vertical skins of the sidepod enclosures, that all that was necessary was to have a piece of bodywork out within the 50mm limit of the outer edge.

Never mind the fact that the Glossary defines Body as everything licked by the airstream that is above the floorpan.

Which leads me back to the question I asked once before about the Glossary definition: If those bottoms were below the floorpan in their entirety, and therefore not bodywork as per the official definition, what are they and what is the limits as to their width?

Kinda helps prove my point about everyone wanting to rely solely on the exact wording of the GCR and not taking into account any intent - it's almost impossible to always get the wording so perfect as to not open up things that you did not intend.

[mario_zgb]

hat down to Brandon, Tom, Niki and everybody else...

and wish for no bad luck interference next time...

[billwald]

Congratulations Brandon and to all the FB drivers. Great show!

[Christopher Crowe]

Congratulations on your great and well-deserved win. You built a fantastic mouse-trap then drove its wheels off.

Indeed, that's what it's all about.

Christopher Crowe