Runoffs parking

[reidhazelton]

The way it gets fixed is that the person who negotiates the contract with the track makes sure that those issues are taken care of. However I don't have much confidence that something like that will be addressed considering some of the recent deals that I've seen made by the national office.

That's what I thought.

Just did a little quick math (I quickly ran out of fingers and toes to count on). Let's say you have an Atlantic, with a full rig, and run the test day.

Before you even hit the track you will have nearly or even over $4,000 in fees! Who can afford this?!! Isn't that insane? This isn't the Indy500.

[Bill Bonow]

But what can I (we) do?

Reid,

I think this has been posted before, but as a member of SCCA one of the most important tasks you can do is voting for your area director. These folks are the people that form the direction of the SCCA, and they answer directly to us. Once voted into position, they are your voice on these topics. Letters and petitions that go to your area director will do something, if not, they should be voted out.

I put choosing and voting for my area director as top priority as a member of SCCA.

[M.Sauce]

I think one main point that has been overlooked.If it is in the economic plan of the track to make the event profitable for them which I am sure it is the cost of parking,scooters and golf carts are all in that equation.If they stopped charging for parking and the entry fee became $600.00 it would be the same net effect.The point is if it is not parking that cost something else will.Ultimately every thing will cost.There will nothing included in the entry fee or there will be many things included in the entry fee.I believe the cost of parking was started by the Chicago Region leadership to aid in organizing the parking at the June Sprints..If I remember right the Region is the one that recommended it so they would not have to deal with it.It took the trouble from the Region and allowed the track to make some more money.I am old though my memory may not be that good.Anybody else remember differently?

[Matt King]

I believe there is a difference between the Sprints parking and Runoffs parking in that the Chicago Region organized the parking assignments and collected the fees, whereas the track is doing it for the Runoffs. I am ASSUMING that means the region kept the money for the Sprints. It probably doesn't matter much to most people who gets the money after you've paid it, but if it helps the region remain profitable that takes some of the sting out of it. I still think it would be reasonble only to charge for the paved paddock spots and let the rest of us park for free in the grass, like at Mid-Ohio.

[TimW]

I am old though my memory may not be that good.Anybody else remember differently?

Wasn't that initiated for the sprints to reduce the land grab stampede that used to occur? I think the cost initially was pretty nominal for a key spot too and frankly is worth it to me to spend $40 some odd dollars for a spot (or half spot) in exchange to not have to get there way early to wait in a long line and take a full day off from work instead of taking a half day to just tow to a track. What would have been even better was those who chose to pay for that convenience had the proceeds go directly to the worker reimbursement fund and those who did not could go to the grass. But obviously that is not capitalism now is it.

Tim

[butch deer]

First thing you could do is forward this thread to all the directors of SCCA plus the CEO and head of Club racing. They should all be aware of what there last contract has wrought.
Butch

[reidhazelton]

First thing you could do is forward this thread to all the directors of SCCA plus the CEO and head of Club racing. They should all be aware of what there last contract has wrought.
Butch

I thought about that, but I don't think they take any stock in a forum rant. Or do they?

Hey, it's one solution, what else we got???

[BrianT1]

This just came to my e-mail and I thought it was a very interesting coming from SCCA. Seems like they had quite a few fires to put out. At least they appear to be listening.

To all 2010 Runoffs Registrants:

Thank you for taking the time to register for the 2010 SCCA National Championship Runoffs. We understand that many of you encountered difficulty during the registration and reserved parking process yesterday. SCCA, along with Road America would like to apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced.

We would also like to address the issue of pre-reserved parking, which SCCA was made aware of the Friday prior to the opening of registration. We did not feel at the time that this would be an issue as it had been a similar practice in previous years. Again this year, Road America accommodated the manufacturers, their sponsors and a few prep shops by pre-reserving space. They were trying to take care of the issues ahead of time rather than trying to make it happen after registration opened.

The opening day of registration yielded over 300 entries. While we were very pleased with the response, it also stressed our system and the Road America parking system and resources (single day volume in 2010 that they had 4 months to handle in 2009). Road America did discover a software issue that did not reveal itself last year due to the staggered registration and low volume. This issue caused spaces to be selected by multiple people with the person hitting the “submit” button first receiving the spot. Road America has been able to resolve the problem and is working to address the issues that resulted.

Road America has expressed their willingness to work with our drivers to resolve their issues and you will be hearing from them shortly. We are all working together towards making the 2010 Runoffs a successful and fun event. It may take a few days to resolve all the outstanding parking issues, but the goal is to get them all addressed as quickly as possible.

We ask for your patience and understanding during this time.

Kind Regards,

Terry Ozment
Vice-President, Club Racing

[Matt King]

Again this year, Road America accommodated the manufacturers, their sponsors and a few prep shops by pre-reserving space.

I find that part troubling. Professional prep shops have enough influence in this club as it is.

My company is a sponsor of several events up at RA. I guess I should have pulled some strings too.

[reidhazelton]

The part I find troubling is there is no mention of the insane $2000 price tag. Or am I just a really, really big cheapass?

[BWC54]

The part I find troubling is there is no mention of the insane $2000 price tag. Or am I just a really, really big cheapass?

I guess they figure if you have a toterhome you're rich.

[M.Sauce]

Reid- I assumed the $2K was hear say.I would like to have that validated because that is ridiculous. Mike Sauce

[Wren]

It does sound high. Getting 4 spaces (2 full spots ~60x80) should only cost $400 in the paved paddock areas. That is enough room for a lot of cars.

[mousecatcher]

I want to go back to Road Atlanta ... where you had to actually qualify for the chance to become National Champion.

Make it a real Championship and not just the largest and longest national race of the year.

I've never been to the runoffs, and never will as long as the schedule is like it is now. So maybe I'm out of line. But

- Without a national series that culminates in a final round, the runoffs is really just a single race that happens to be the biggest, and not really a "championship". The new super sweep is a good idea however you still have to win the runoffs to get the sweep. It's not perfect but given the logistics and budget issues of club racing I think it's as good as can be hoped for, and it keeps the runoffs as the most important event.

- With membership on the decline, I don't know why folks want more stringent requirements to go to the runoffs. The mid-pack and backmarkers aren't challenging the front runners, so what's the difference if they can participate as well? This is club racing, where the qualifying rule of 120% is a joke anyway. We need more attendance, not less. I don't see that it diminishes the podium winners as they still have to compete against the best; the top 3 aren't competing against the last 3.

[reidhazelton]

Reid- I assumed the $2K was hear say.I would like to have that validated because that is ridiculous. Mike Sauce

Ditto.

Ohhh K. So, I just got a little more first hand info. Seems that parking a rig with a prep shop or team is as follows:

$350 per spot, and RA says a full rig with a few cars will need 2 spots. Then, as a shop or team there is a $450 sponsorship fee. No one knows what that is or what you get for that.

So, looks like $1150 for that.

[budawe]

I agree with everything that has been said here. Having been in SCCA for a very long time I've seen the transistion first hand. Without starting a "we vs them" battle, I will say that the drivers have the least strongest voice with the powers to be. In the attempt to please everyone, especially our aging workers, the priorities have shifted and life has become more complicated. Competitors are paying for everything and should have a more powerful voice. I think it's time that an organization like the RDC establish a strong lobbying effort to rebalance the priorities.

When I approached my local RDC chapter about the issues, they didn't think there were any problems. Maybe it's time to start a national drivers club and do our own elections, candidates and arm twisting.

[Brandon Dixon]

The real money is the test week. If it fills to capacity (big if) then RA nets $485,000.

It does seem annoying that RA is trying to make an extra $20K by charging people to park in the grass.

[M.Sauce]

Afte 6 years on the BOD I have a thought alot about why things happen the way they do.The leadership of this club struggle with what is a good business model and what is good for the club membership.This is important struggle because the club membership often loose out to the business side.In reality it is a really difficult line to draw what is business what is club membership and what is best for both.One usually hurts the other.We must have financial longevity and must have membership ammenties that keep being a member of the club viable.It is my personal opinion that the club is run from an operations perspective first and the end user(member/competitor) perspective second.For example if we need workers to put on events so the management is always looking at ways to keep workers while trying to offer events the membership will enter.I think if you look at attracting the competitors to event as your first priority the management of the operational side is easier to take care of.The bureacracy of the workers,stewards and other officials have made events an operational nightmare.This is not the way our club should be run.Competitors have to pay entry fees,car costs and membership where many workers are subsidized.remember the subsidies of some create higher costs for others.This ok as long as other revenues offset those costs otherwise the number of competitors than can afford to go racing as the prices go up becomes fewer and fewer..We are in an era when it has been hard to find other sponsors to offset the costs of putting on events.As entry fees climb,extra costs such as paddock parking,increases in membership and license fees the number of competitors falls off and the membership numbers drop as well.Is is not a simple task to solve.Please consider who you vote for for your Director and understand their fairly daunting task.Remember directors don't get paid for the time they spend.Being a director for me was more than a part time job.If you want to change the club, more competitors need to take an active roll in the leadership and in making sure your voices are heard.Just some thoughts to consider.

[Matt King]

Good points, Mike. Wouldn't it be ironic if one day the workers and stewards showed up at the track and there were no racers? The National office wouldn't have much work to do either.

[cooleyjb]

If you want to change the club, more competitors need to take an active roll in the leadership and in making sure your voices are heard..

But this is a national issue. There are what 20 spots for people to effect things at the national level?

[Daryl DeArman]

But what do we do? That is where I am at. After the financial raping I got at the Sprints, I am as pissed as anyone. But what can I do?

As long as the monies continue to roll in, it won't matter. Seems to me there is a viable alternative.

It's like going to the same crappy restaurant day after day and complaining about the tough steak and bad service....but you keep returning....why would the food or service change?

I firmly believe that the event costs should be "a la carte". Why should those who don't need electricity, water, a 40' x 80' spot, a golf cart, and a couple of quads pay the same fee as the guy who only needs a 20' x 40' spot?

Some folks will spend more than $2500 on tires for the event. Should everybody be charged $2500 as part of the entry and be told that tires are included....use all you want, take home the the set you race on? Might sound good to everybody already using $2500 or more in tires, but not everybody else.

[Tom Maycock]

Wasn't that initiated for the sprints to reduce the land grab stampede that used to occur?

Yes.

And almost all of the work is done by Chicago Region members (mostly one or two people), not the staff at Road America. The track is helpful, and work well with us on the project, but virtually all of the advance work is done by region volunteers.

We're talking hundreds of emails and dozens of phone calls, and hours spent pouring over spreadsheets trying to satisfy requests and maximize space usage, generate the hard-copy maps we use at the track to get people in their spots, etc.

This year, virtually all of that work was done by one person--Dave Karling, with support from our Chief Registrars who field a bunch of inquiries as well.

Heck, I probably spent at a few hours myself setting up and tweaking the parking-related aspects of the online registration setup, and that was nothin' compared to the work Dave did.

Just FYI.

Tom

[Mike B]

Yes.

And almost all of the work is done by Chicago Region members (mostly one or two people), not the staff at Road America. The track is helpful, and work well with us on the project, but virtually all of the advance work is done by region volunteers.

We're talking hundreds of emails and dozens of phone calls, and hours spent pouring over spreadsheets trying to satisfy requests and maximize space usage, generate the hard-copy maps we use at the track to get people in their spots, etc.

This year, virtually all of that work was done by one person--Dave Karling, with support from our Chief Registrars who field a bunch of inquiries as well.

Heck, I probably spent at a few hours myself setting up and tweaking the parking-related aspects of the online registration setup, and that was nothin' compared to the work Dave did.

Just FYI.

Tom

And a fine job they did! Dave was very accomodating and helpful. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare of keeping everything straight.
Maybe Dave and Chicago Region could offer their services to RA since it appears that they do a better job!

[M.Sauce]

Joe-The number is not 20 its 13.We have 13 areas that place directors on the BOD.

[cooleyjb]

Joe-The number is not 20 its 13.We have 13 areas that place directors on the BOD.

I was including the CRB in that number but still a very small number. It's an impressively small number considering the positions are occupied by volunteers. A lot of issues to deal with and relatively little time to hear what the members are thinkings.

[Steve Demeter]

Mike's last post really hit the nail on the head.
The simple fact is that the folks at Topeka have somewhat lost their way.

Their job is to take care of their customers (the membership).

If the competitors come there will be plenty of funds coming in to a given race.

I respect that workers, at least the vast majority of them, (the non subsized ones) have significant expenses to get to a race, stay there etc.

I can guarantee you that these folks want to see full fields.

As drivers we should talk to the workers and make sure that they know how much we appreciate them being there.

Back to Mike's point, again if the competitors come, the rest of things will mostly take care of themselves.

Remember that up til 5 or 10 years ago, the club got $5 for every Trans Am that Pontiac sold, usually about $500K a year.

This is the single biggest example of declining sponsorship that has taken place.

When all is said and done, my take is to treat the Runoffs like just a big national race and forget the huge sanction fees, make the track be reasonable in what they charge participants and look someplace other than the driver's pocket to fund the big chunk of the SCCA operations budget.

Done with Rant.

[cff96]

From personal experience:

We (as in LMI) contacted SCCA who referred us to RA fifteen minutes before registration opened for the runoffs. Our specific question: how do our drivers register because they run with a prep shop to get all four paddocked together with our rig on pavement for the Runoffs? RA response: 350 per car PLUS 450 sponsorship fee = 1850 (damn near that $2K).

None of our drivers registered for parking.

(Personally I say screw RA, but I'm married to the Vice RE of Milwaukee Region SCCA so that might be politically incorrect)


Cindy Lindstrand

[Bill Bonow]

Being semi-serious for a second.....

What would really happen if you paddocked across Hwy 67 in that campground directly across from the Road Amerika offices (see map) http://www.roadamerica.com/Registration/SiteMap.pdf

I mean, your only going on track once a day, so two Hwy 67 crosses per day (going out, coming back). Just to pull a "Bruce Nesbit", I think this option should be investigated. Pull it off and you'll go down in Runoffs history.

My question is if you have your gate passes with you in your race car, where is the problem?

[TimW]

Weren't several people paddocked outside the paddock north of the Kohler tunnel last year, in that grassy area on the inside of the exit of 13 and the trailer drop area? I think there was even a large flat concrete section toward turn 14 on the outside of the track that prolly has a big tent for pro races that had a huge toter & tent, if I recall correctly.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

What was the price breakdown for all the different spots? You could not see the price unless you were able to put the spot in your cart.

I paid $100 for a grass spot in the competition paddock. What were the others going for?

[M.Sauce]

I paid $250.00 for a motorhome spot.

[Brandon Dixon]

I paid $100 for a spot in the West paved paddock.

[Marshall Mauney]

I still think it would be reasonble only to charge for the paved paddock spots and let the rest of us park for free in the grass, like at Mid-Ohio.

I disagree. Some cars really need paved (or at least flat and level) spots (most formula cars, sports racers, GT), while some cars (SS, T, SM, AS, etc) have enough ground clearance to be able to deal with grass, gravel, or other rough surfaces. Thus, charging only for paved spots amounts to a de facto extra charge for those certain classes with low ground clearance.

I actually find the whole thing distasteful. The "internet land grab" approach to parking is just ridiculous for a club event. Many of us actually work for a living, and don't have time to sit at a PC waiting for the needle to move to the exact time of registration opening. This system basically puts those drivers into the position of being forced into accepting something less than what they would prefer - and still having to pay big $$$ for it.

Here's a suggestion for handling the prep shops and other multi-car rigs/teams: Drop the bogus "sponsorship fee", and allow them to pre-book spaces together at no extra charge - but only if they are willing to fit into fewer spaces than the number of cars they represent. Thus, if a 5-car team can fit into 4 spaces, they could reserve early. This gives these teams an incentive to be aggressive with their space utilization, while still allowing them to lock down a block of spots to fit into.

Another part of the problem at RA is the comparative lack of spaces with power/water. Frankly, I don't get why RA feels they can charge such ridiculous fees when they aren't providing very much in the way of services. Of course, this is made worse when a team blocks out a whole row of "equipped" spaces for a single (albeit large) rig.

Interesting thought re: "Plymouth Rock" campground (the one across the highway from RA).... If enough people were to try to paddock over there, might it be possible to arrange an escort for highway crossings en masse?

[glenn cooper]

Toter with stacker 2k in Comp Paddock for the week.

Spaces were made smaller so they called it 2 spaces, Toter/Stacker/Canopy - 2k for the week.

This can be divided by the number of drivers: 3 easy, 4 kinda tight or 6 as Critter is planning w/ me being 6th packed in like sardines.
This is the same rig as at the Sprints.

THEN I gotta pay for a M/H spot w/ no power out in the grass.
I'm not even going to check on how much it would be for a spot in the cushy M/H area along the main drag...

Butch I'm liking the ARRC deal more and more - you nailed it, mi amigo...

[drdestructo]

Move the F1000 National title to the ARRC, make it 3 days and I'd go. I'm not playing the week long $$ game at RA

Russ

[Keith Roberts]

I think that's a great idea Russ!

[Stan Clayton]

I think that's a great idea Russ!

If the BoD keep to their statement about moving the Runoffs every three years, you may get your wish.

Of course, if they keep gouging the competitors it may not make any difference...

[drdestructo]

If SCCA moves the runoffs there, that will defeat the purpose of my idea. Do we really need national to sanction our championship? I say we choose where and how we pick our champion. ARRC would work fine. So would other places and regions who may be willing to do the event.

Road America is a cool track, but the event ( and the Sprints) has been wrecked with all the BS of time, money, and favoritism.

Last year's ARRC was a fabulous example of a Championship decided somewhere outside of the run-ons.

Russ

[dfrazer]

My team is on the very front end of it's learning curve understanding Formula Ford and boy, it makes us wonder if we are picking the right class/sport.

I guess it begs the question "Where does the management/leadership come from?"

You would atleast think we could get parking figured out.

[Bob Wheless]

Coop the arrc is looking better and better,,,,,accidentally deleted a long post ,,,, I guess it just wasn't suppose to be ,,,,,see you in sept,,,, bobo