Runoffs parking

[Speed Sport Engineering]

Is it just me or did Road America take all the free spots that were nice paddock spots last year -inside turn 3, outside turn 3 around the Sargento Bridge, and turn them into pay only spots? If that's the case, that means there are no free parking spots anywhere.

For what it's worth, I also contacted Road America regarding some of the parking spots in the competition paddock, asking why they feel the need to make the spots so narrow. In some rows last year the spots weren't even wide enough for a vehicle and canopy. They are trying to fit more spots into the same rows then at the Sprints. Road America response was "pick a different space."

[M.Sauce]

It is a giant clusterf----.The club should come up with a better way to do it.There were already many spots taken before registration even opened.The chosen ones who politic with Road America and can't wait to play game with the rest of the competitors.Politics and BS it's a shame.It is just one more reason why the clubs memberships just erodes away every year.Civility becomes harder to find when politics are more important than quality of the event for the competitors.

[butch deer]

Maybe the next time the club negotiates a runoffs cotract they should put in a clause were parking is done the NASCAR way. Assigned by the position you finish in your division point standings.
Butch

[Scotty Segers]

I personally would like to Thank SCCA and Road America for making the first item of business for the 2010 Runoffs an absolute miserable task. My goal for the upcoming year is to be on the double secret list that gets you in the best parking spots. So far I have missed Road Atlanta, Mid-Ohio, Heartland Park and now Road America but I have confidence in next year.

[Wren]

The rumor mill says that FB wasn't even allowed to register for parking online.

I think that money was the way to get on the super secret list for parking. Evidently you had to rent a tent or something?

As for Road Atlanta parking, I would try a Thorazine dart gun.

[starkejt]

The rumor mill says that FB wasn't even allowed to register for parking online.

I think that money was the way to get on the super secret list for parking. Evidently you had to rent a tent or something?

As for Road Atlanta parking, I would try a Thorazine dart gun.

Problem for FB was that there were no makes/models available in the dropdown when registering for the event, so you couldn't proceed to the point of getting your "key" to get a parking spot. It took several phone calls to the SCCA and the track to get registered and reserve a spot. It seemed to be unique to FB; the other formula classes I checked had the make/model dropdowns populated.

[Terry Abbott]

Mike,

you are correct, last year we parked in the 'FREE" spots and will be there again this year but will be 200.00 less

I suspect RA saw the people over there and said hey there's another couple grand,lets get after it

Terry

[David Ferguson]

Problem for FB was that there were no makes/models available in the dropdown when registering for the event, so you couldn't proceed to the point of getting your "key" to get a parking spot.

I had a similar problem with my "unique" Van Diemen Sports 2000. While I could pick the make, there was no model -- and the form wouldn't let you go without selecting a model. I finally chose another make, selected "other" as it's model, then changed the make back to Van Diemen.

The worst was finishing the registration -- and waiting for the email with the parking code -- took about 45 minutes while I watched the paddock spots we wanted disappear right in front of me.

Later, I went back to "edit" my registration -- and found the parking code was listed right on that page -- I probably could have done that right away -- next year I'll know.

[BrianT1]

I went online to register at 9:10 am. By the time I got to register for parking at 9:20 over 80% of the spots were gone.

By 9:30 all the paved spots were gone completely.

I think they should group cars together by class and pavement goes to the cars with height issues.

Brian Tomasi

[reidhazelton]

Sounds like RA screwed the pooch again. Anyone surprised?? I love the track, it's what I call home. But as for the administration, it is horrific. At the Cat, they tried to charge for the upper paddock!! A regular national...wow!

At the Sprints, overcrew was $50 a head (before it was corrected as a result of some loud and forceful discussion), the free parking was not free etc. Being a cheap skate, I went out and parked in the "free" parking (where I had to bring 4 6'x12' boards so I could get over the Sargento bridge without ripping off the nose box again, like I did at the Runoffs last year). Come Friday, I was visited many times to get the shake down. First for camping, which they made us pay per head, plus the camper. Then ATV reg for licensed street scooters. By the end of the weekend whenever I saw a white golf cart with a worker wearing a florescent green vest I got nervous like when my Mom used to catch me in the cookie jar...oh now what did I do that they want money for? One of the last collection agents came I said, "You have all my money, what more do you want." Thought they were going to take my shoes.

Kind of seems the entry fee is a down payment. This is getting to be as bad as flying Southwest. Parking fee, electric fee, pit cart fee, camping fee, air usage fee. I am surprised they didn't come around with sniffers and charge $X/part per million of emission pollution.

Opps, did I just give them an idea!?

[cliff]

pity the poor sap that actually had to work today...I have every bit of 2 hours dicking around with this. some sort of simple lottery system factoring your position in division and when you register...?

[Steve Demeter]

Sounds like things should go back to the good old days when you arrived, the paddock marshall directed you to a spot of mutual agreement and all hte spots were free.

First come first served.

The entire idea of having to pay for any parking spot other than a garage or special motorhome spot at a race just irks me to no end.

Let's see: the CLUB gets a nice fee from RA , RA sells spectator tickets and concessions for the better part of two weeks, sells test time for the better part of a week and has to soak the drivers who already foot lots of the bill for the privelege of parking and using their support vehicles to put on a show that everyone in sight makes money from except for the drivers.

Something is bad wrong with this .

[butch deer]

The track would not be collecting these fees if our club(SCCA) negotiated a conteract for the run offs that prevented the track from passing on extra fees to the competitors. The track gets to charge these only because the SCCA allows it in there contract.
Butch

[Matt King]

I'd imagine the club said all kinds of great things about how much revenue the track would bring in from spectator ticket sales to offset the sanctioning fee it paid the SCCA. When that didn't materialize, the track probably figured they would take it out of our hide one way or another. After all, it is our club.

[butch deer]

Matt;
the track charging for parking spaces,pit vehicles,and various other fees did not come about because of lack of spectators. It is done because the contract with the SCCA allows it. If the SCCA cared about its comptitors it would negotuiate a contract that wouldn't nickel and dime them to death. Put it into the entry fee upfront. Take a smaller cut for the national office. Let the contract include paddock parking,support vehilcle, showers, etc. Maybe next year we'll have pay toilets.
Butch

[Terry Abbott]

Ha HA Butch on the pay toilets...........Get your quarters (dollars) ready for the showers.....LOL

[Speed Sport Engineering]

What I'm disspointed about is they took the areas that were free last year, and made them pay spots. Those spots were actually really nice places to paddock. They also served as a nice fall back - if your reserved spot wasn't good enough, you could always move to a free area. Where can people park now without paying or reserving? According to the map, everything is a reserved space.

Also, they still left a lot of spaces only 20' wide, which isn't enough for a standard tow vehicle and canopy. Removing 1 or 2 spaces from some areas would have made everything so much nicer.

[Hardingfv32]

Are many race cars are happy being driven a 1/2 mile or more to pre-grid? That could include 2-3 intersections with cross traffic.

For those who must come from a great distance, there are more negatives than positives surrounding this event.

Brian

[M.Sauce]

The track will want to make money where ever they can.I don't fault them for that.RA is a great place to race butif you look at what it costs for entry fee,paddock space ,scooter permits,golf cart permits you can easily get close to $900.00.This is not a cheap entry fee.There are better ways to do this as far as registration.The part I don't like is being on the secret list for paddock spots and the rules for normal registration don't apply to those people.That is within the clubs responsibility to make the process consistent and fair to every competitor.This is SCCA Club racing therefore SCCA Club Racing should be accountable. Mike Sauce

[John LaRue]

When I registered there were paved spots remaining, even in the main paddock. That being said, I did notice that a good number of spots were marked with vendor names, perhaps Toyota? This seems to be nothing different than has been practiced from the days at MO or HPT. It was certainly more of an issue at MO where the roadways were not as easily traveled in the low slung formula cars. In registering for Sprints the spots appeared to even go faster although once at the track there were a few left empty. If paddcok space is an issue at RA then we do have problems. I vote we move the damned thing back to MO so we can all bitch about the paddock.

Who is responsible for negotiating the contract for Runoffs? Is there a good reason the terms are not published?

[cjahn]

Ha HA Butch on the pay toilets...........Get your quarters (dollars) ready for the showers.....LOL

At Blackhawk you used to have pay showers...(and I tell you they were not worth paying for!!!)

And it should be noted I just spent the weekend (3 days) at Gingerman (Regional/National) up in the trees and paid $50 for power, water, camping, sewer, and a very nice shaded location with lots of room... Free showers at Gingerman (although no hot water like RA the last few times)

Cj

[mblanc]

The showers were one really good thing about Topeka.

and thats one area RA could greatly improve on,


Too bad that the number of electric spots at RA is so limited, they could improve there,
(and increase their income also)

[budawe]

Went on line at 7:02 PST, struggled through a very slow registration process and waited and waited for an email with my code. Finally got to the parking at 8:43 and found a spot. Yea, spots were gone days before. Last week when I asked the RA offices what was up, the girl got a bit chippy and wished me a nice day. Understand things were a bit crazy in Topeka as well. I had to call to make a second attempt at the payment after it had bombed.

Back in the 80's Road Atlanta did escort everyone to their respective pit spots and things were REALLY tight. No extra cars and certainly not very many motorhomes etc. It was first come, first serve; but a case of rare Coors always helped.

In spite of all disclaimers, SCCA is responsible for everything that the track does. After requiring so much to host the event, the tracks have to recover as much as they can. Back when Mid O. paid Topeka to have the event, the test fees skyrocketed and was basically a pass through to the national office. Don't ever expect to see the proposal guidelines, they're a closely held secret. I understand that the request include dozens of golf carts, tents and other facilities.

Over the years I have decided it was a better event when the local Host region ran the event. With all due respect to the national staff, I don't think the additional costs and resources reguired by the national staff are necessary.

After 27 years, this will be my last Runoffs as a competitor.

[Jtovo]

You are going to stop racing after 27 years because of parking? Must not be very passionate about racing.

It always amazed me how territorial people get about parking at the track. I had someone throw a barrel at me because I was over the halfway mark of the yellow line of my parking spot.

Its racing. Forget this little stuff and meet up with your friends, drink some Jaeger and race your car. At the end of the race, your parking spot will not be important.

[jnortonjr]

Would be funny if I paddocked in Elkhart Lake and used the golf cart to pull the car through the entrance gates for each session. Probably set up on the 18th hole of Quit Qui Oc Country Club.

[tppj]

Matt;
the track charging for parking spaces,pit vehicles,and various other fees did not come about because of lack of spectators. It is done because the contract with the SCCA allows it. If the SCCA cared about its comptitors it would negotuiate a contract that wouldn't nickel and dime them to death. Put it into the entry fee upfront. Take a smaller cut for the national office. Let the contract include paddock parking,support vehilcle, showers, etc. Maybe next year we'll have pay toilets.
Butch

Submitted for your approval: A man, very much like you or I. Gets two wheels off at the kink. Scares himself silly. Back in the paddock, he scurries for the toilet to attend to his frightened bowel. Uh oh, no quarters!

[Matt King]

Submitted for your approval: A man, very much like you or I. Gets two wheels off at the kink. Scares himself silly. Back in the paddock, he scurries for the toilet to attend to his frightened bowel. Uh oh, no quarters!

That's when you drop trow right then and there.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

You are going to stop racing after 27 years because of parking? Must not be very passionate about racing.

You're talking about a guy who last year started experiencing chest pains on the back side of the track during a qualifying session. But rather then pull in right away to get attention, he did another lap because he "had a good one going."

I don't think anyone here is implying the parking is a "huge" deal one way or the other. It's just the little things that add up.

[Northwind]

"Would be funny if I paddocked in Elkhart Lake and used the golf cart to pull the car through the entrance gates for each session. Probably set up on the 18th hole of Quit Qui Oc Country Club."

John,

I actually had the same thought but setting up on the grass in the front of the fire station in Elkhart Lake. In the old days they used to hold tech inspection there and drove the cars to the track right down the highway. We can set up our paddock spots together.

[glenn cooper]

Two Thousand Dollars to park a Toter and stacker for a week?

I'm not sure if SCCA is getting funneled the money, but I'd think it is the track going into full "Revenue Enhancement Mode".

I'll not have a place to park my motorhome off in the grass somewhere w/o paying for the privillege, and this with out anything else such as electrical hookup?

The boycot starts now. I say we hit the bastids where it hurts.
Unlike the Bullship BP boycot that only seems to hurt local gas station owners, I want to know if Rd Am owns any of the concessions.
If they do I'll not be voting with my wallet at any of their locations.
I can bring my own F'en Brats and corn.
I'll tow the car into the front gates on paddock tires.
I'll drive the motorhome in everyday, before having my feet held to the fire.

This all seems to be cause and effect in regard to the tracks fee paid to SCCA for the right to hold the Runoffs at the track.
Attempting to recoup that fee is business, I understand that.
What they have done in regard to parking is borderline criminal.

Like this endeavor is not expensive enough, then to have this crime perpetrated on us, F U Rd Am. Seriously.

[kea]

I want to go back to Road Atlanta, where we had thousands of people there every day to watch the Run-offs, many camping at the track, where you had to actually qualify for the chance to become National Champion. Where many of us would travel to, even if we were not racing, just to be part of the excitement. And the road into the paddock, was lined with vendors, because they weren't charged and arm and a leg to be there, if we needed them. And we didn't have to pay someone, to receive a package, that was sent to us. We also were paid travel money (still happens?) and the top 3 (maybe deeper), got our entry fee back, once we qualified.
Something happen once SCCA got all bent out of shape and moved it from Atlanta. Greed? I've been going to see (race once) the event since 1974, but skipped the last two in Kansas and had to think about it before I went last year. I don't know, but it has just not been the same for me, for a very long time.

[Speed Sport Engineering]

[QUOTE][/QTwo Thousand Dollars to park a Toter and stacker for a week?

UOTE]


What's $2000? Is that the cost for a larger paved spot?

[M.Sauce]

The Runoffs will never be what it used to be.I miss Road Atlanta too and the Runoffs events that we had there.Sorry Keith but those days are gone and will never return.There are several things that can be changed to revisit those great years.The paddock parking and the cost is something could be modified but won't be done away with.The economics are in place to stay.To me the most important thing is to have the best competitors in all classes possible.There should be a better program in place to help the competitors who travel over a 1000 miles to the event.Something should be changed about how we qualify for this event.The event ceased to belong to the competitors once the BOD in 1993 decided it needed to be the clubs biggest cash cow and the biggest event of its kind.The top 6 cars in every class should get invites except SRF,SM,FV should have 8-10 invitations.A 450 car event with the best competitors makes more sense to me than 700 cars of anyone who can finish 4 events during the season.In most Divisions that means the minimum standards can be met by racing in two Double National weekends.How well prepared are those drivers who choose to race to the minimum requirements.Most probably are not.I want the Runoffs to be something that means something in the Motorsports world and thats is fading every year.The Runoffs at Road Atlanta was a true Championship event and the leadership of this club should look long and hard at the specifics of why those events were so memorable.Make it a real Championship and not just the largest and longest national race of the year.Just my opinion. Mike Sauce

[Bill Bonow]

The economics are in place to stay.

Mike,

I respect your position as a former BOD member and having knowledge of the Runoffs program. However, my .02 is that I dissagree and say they are only in place to stay if we (the membership) chose to allow it to stay. As a club driven by the membership, and recent changes for Runoffs qualifications, I suggest that (as KEA stated) we go back to Road Atlanta for the ARRC. Remember, the event is now open to ALL Runoffs classes. I say don't go to Road Amerika (thanks Coop) and instead go to Road Atlanta.

ARRC - Friendly people, happy faces, no surcharges or fees.

[kea]

I know Mike, I just wanted to bring up a little history for those who didn't know about the Run-offs, before M-O.

[M.Sauce]

Bill I agree with you in principle it is a member driven club.The club has been loosing 1200-1800 members a year since 2005 consistently and although there has been thought process about the problem no real solutions or new ideas prevailed while I was on the BOD.I was in that position for 6 years.I think the inherent problem with the tracks as they see this event as a way to make a good percentage of their annual profit in 2 weeks.They believe the racers will come regardless of how expensive the conditions are.I have a breaking point economically speaking as many do.I have reached that point for the last 2 years and I am not willing to spend anymore.I have already spent $700.00 with my entry fee and motorhome space and given the cost of the food,travel,etc this will be my most expensive Runoffs ever before I even get to the cost of the racecar.The membership can change some of these issues but it would take only having 300-400 cars show up at the Runoffs to get their attention.Am I suggesting this? Absolutely not ,the clubs financial well being would be compromised.I do think that if we want these issues looked at ,the overall event structure and process needs to be changed.

[Matt King]

Designating events like the Sprints and Runoffs as "spectator" events and then nickel and diming the competitors who bring the show is bull$hit. If the track needs to recoup X dollars to make it viable, that should be part of the contract with SCCA and rolled into the entry fee. I do think it's reasonable to charge something for the land hog pro shops that squat on obscene amounts of paved paddock real estate, but parking in the grass should be free.

[Bill Bonow]

They believe the racers will come regardless of how expensive the conditions are.

Mike,

I think this is a key point and I 100% agree. We are in the process of witnessing the Runoffs track (be it driven by SCCA contract or not) finding the "pain point". None of this is good for SCCA, Club Racing or the Runoffs. From my cheap seats, the Runoffs in general has become an 80/20 event. 20% about the competition and 80% about milking the cash cow. I just wish more of the competitors would wake up and see that issue.

[reidhazelton]

Mike,
From my cheap seats, the Runoffs in general has become an 80/20 event. 20% about the competition and 80% about milking the cash cow. I just wish more of the competitors would wake up and see that issue.

Hey Bill,

I think we all have woken up and see it, I know I do. I don't have $1,200 to park, I just don't have that kinda of money. That would be 90% of my Runoffs budget. We all see it, we hate it, and a lot of people will find it very hard to justify.

But what do we do? That is where I am at. After the financial raping I got at the Sprints, I am as pissed as anyone. But what can I do?

The issue is not we don't recognize the problem, we just don't know how to fix it. Would a letter or petition help?? I"ll volunteer my new found free time to write one, post it on apex for everyone to critique, and we can all send it around. Will that do anything?

-RH

[cooleyjb]

The way it gets fixed is that the person who negotiates the contract with the track makes sure that those issues are taken care of. However I don't have much confidence that something like that will be addressed considering some of the recent deals that I've seen made by the national office.