Ford Racing Formula Ford 1.6 L Kent Block Update

[Roland V. Johnson]

It's nice to see that we have the same cast, singing the same song.
Honda, Honda Rah! Rah!
Ford, BOOO! HISS!

[dc]

It's nice to see that we have the same cast, singing the same song.
Honda, Honda Rah! Rah!
Ford, BOOO! HISS!

Wow.

[RussMcB]

Wow.

When I read it, I thought, "Good grief". I looked back at posts 2, 3, 5, 8 (and many others) and figured he must have had blinders on.

I think it is safe to say there is a clear majority that think this (new Ford block offering) is a good thing.

I might even go so far as guessing 100% of the people in favor of the Honda in FF would support this new Ford block. Am I wrong?

[TimW]

It's nice to see that we have the same cast, singing the same song.
Honda, Honda Rah! Rah!
Ford, BOOO! HISS!

Here Roland, see post #3 and then this will you allow to communicate in the 21st century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W00t

New ford blocks are good for the class regardless of what engine anyone is running.

Are all your statements & positions so misinformed?

[John Nesbitt]

New ford blocks are good for the class regardless of what engine anyone is running.

Bingo! (As we said back in the 20th century, before Al Gore invented w00t.)

[Daryl DeArman]

It's nice to see that we have the same cast, singing the same song.
Honda, Honda Rah! Rah!
Ford, BOOO! HISS!

reminds me of the pot and the kettle idiom...

I believe one can be pro-Honda without being anti-Ford. I own a bit of Ford stock. Own a Ford powered motorhome. Have owned a Ford Truck. I'm not anti-Ford. I just happen to believe that the Fit is good for the class. Too bad you seem to have a problem with that.

[Matt King]

reminds me of the pot and the kettle idiom...

I believe one can be pro-Honda without being anti-Ford.

Insisting on the use of a 50-year-old engine in primarily British-built non-production chassis doesn't do much to polish the Blue Oval. But maybe we are confusing devotion to the "old" class name with devotion to the brand. I road and drag raced Mustangs for almost 15 years, own a Ford truck, and am pretty much an all-around die-hard Ford guy. I have never owned a Honda car and don't want one--but they make great generators and pit bikes! I really would like to own a FF with a modern Ford engine, but I would probably take a Honda-powered one before a Kent because my priority is having a cheap, reliable, easily replaced engine.

[ric baribeault]

sometimes i'm amazed at the tunnel vision. if ford steps up to the plate and brings better parts...GREAT! i hope they do. if the parts bring greater engine longevity and cheaper rebuilds...the class benefits. if they somehow bring more hp, crb will adjust the honda to be close. the place for absolute engine equality is NOT the SCCA and it was never intended to be. there will be other more appropriate avenues for that. BUT, my absolute favorite is someone explain to me how a fuel injected motor is faster INTO a corner it'd be nice if we could save the pissing and moaning until a honda wins a national.

[M.Sauce]

We have choices,Honda or Ford.It appears the Honda is getting more competitive all the time.There is no need to argue over something that is not even available yet.When the blocks are out there we will see if it adds more HP or just longevity.I would guess much more longevity than HP.I do realize it is impossible for all the experts on this forum to agree on anything.It is really quite amusing.Roland and others can stay with their Ford Kent engines and anyone who wants a Honda can buy one.It America we all have choices.

[John Merriman]

This is, after all, a FORUM. Things get posted, mentioned or "announced", and then people chime in in favor or against. Opinions are expressed. Things are debated. Facts - and non-facts - are laid out for all to ponder. It's energetic, thought provoking, usually interesting (especially the terrific technical things that are discussed and shared) and quite often fun.

But it seems to me that in the end whatever happens with a given part or spec or SCCA decision - well, what happens happens...mostly because the "marketplace" is where things are decided. If Ford wants to offer up a nifty item like this here block, guys will either buy it or they won't. If FF1600 engines - that is, if TOP NOTCH engines cost $12,000, and if people buy them, that's fine. (The costs are NEVER going to come down now, are they?) If I want to cough up a measly $3,000 for a Regional engine (less than the cost of a super alloy head) that needs some work, I can do that too. Over time, what matters is what the "consumer" wants so things come and go, fads peak and fade away while other things continue to have a life for whatever reasons. This is all about sport, right? An amateur sport at that. Guys buy Miatas and go racing with them. Others rebuild their MG Midget engines every month and race them too. Others just love FF1600 and all that it represents. It's all what you wanna do.

But one other point: None of us can be sure how the FIT deal will work out in the end. It's going to be a topsy-turvy period for the class, that's for sure. Achieving the "ideal" outcome that the CRB envisioned may not be possible in actuality. One thing that is for sure is that one of the most appealing aspects of of FF1600 was its fundamental stability - of the rules. of chassis design and even parts availability. So what we had - a known quantity and with clear and easily perceived qualities - has been thrown for a loop and pushed aside causing controversy, disagreement and an unfortunate level of tension to pervade this class of this sport. To me, that's really regretable.

[Daryl DeArman]

Well said. ^

<on edit> well most of it anyway I'm conflicted because I think the class needed a new motor to bring in more folks. However, I'm not a fan of classes that allow competition adjustments because of the politics, bickering, whining and constantly changing of the rules that comes along with that. Should have introduced the Fit at a "slight disadvantage to a very good Kent" and left it alone. It is what it is. It is what we proposed. Choose your weapon and race.

[Jonathan Hirst]

Do these blocks need to be seasoned and do they even season iron castings anymore?

Jonathan

[Jonathan Hirst]

Found the answer - I was informed this is now done to engine blocks synthetically to replicate the stress relief within the surface layer of the casting.

Jonathan

[Roger Eade]

I know it is done, but don't know how they do it? I'm told that back in the late 40's and early 50's Bedford truck engine blocks were left in the sea for a period of time, before machining, and early Massey Fergeson tractor block had a problem with this as well.
Roger

Found the answer - I was informed this is now done to engine blocks synthetically to replicate the stress relief within the surface layer of the casting.

Jonathan

[FordRacingParts]

The new Kent blocks are "seasoned" during and after production by modern methods of furnace exposure and controlled air cooling.

[Jonathan Hirst]

Thank you FRP for the confirmation. I was sure there must be a more modern method.

Another question - from someone admittedly well beyond the class weight limit - with the additional material (ring?) connecting the adapter ears and the other changes, I am expecting this new block to weigh more than the original.

Can you publish the machined weight of the new block?


Jonathan --

[FordRacingParts]

The final machined weight of the new Kent block is 91 pounds. That includes main caps and bolts.

[sevenhead]

I don't have a F Ford but do have a Ford powered car.

How large can you safely bore this new 1.6L block?
Are the main cap bolts anything special?

Regarding the short deck "optional" block, why are you referring to it as a 2 litre? How large can it be bored?

Thanks.

[DanW]

I don't have a F Ford but do have a Ford powered car.

How large can you safely bore this new 1.6L block?
Are the main cap bolts anything special?

Regarding the short deck "optional" block, why are you referring to it as a 2 litre? How large can it be bored?

Thanks.

For all the straight scoop on what can be done, contact Jay Ivey at Ivey Engines. He has done a lot of development work on this block with Ford Morotsport.

http://www.iveyengines.com/

[TimW]

Woohoo. They exist and making noise.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y232nr3EOSQ

[BWC54]

Woohoo. They exist and making noise.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y232nr3EOSQ

Will that engine be in someone's car at the Runoffs?

[jivey]

Well, I got on here to post a link to our website showing the updates I posted yesterday but you guys are too quick. That engine will not be at the runoffs. It was built on the first block that Ford sent us to see how everything fit. It makes comparable power to the old block. The only difference is these blocks will be readily available, more reliable, and new. Here is a link to where that video is embedded, this page also has some pictures of the block before it was assembled. http://www.iveyengines.com/FordRacing.htm
Thanks, Cameron Ivey

[Jonathan Hirst]

Block Brochure from the runoffs block intro meeting.

Jonathan

[Dave SanF 50]

FF
1. #469 (Andy Slankard) New FF Kent Block by Ford Racing
Provisional approval was given to a new alternate block for the Kent engine (see Member Advisory in the April 2010
Fastrack). The required inspection and testing has been completed successfully.
In 9.1.1.D.1.b, add a new section as follows:
“4. The Ford Racing block, part number M-6010-16K, is permitted as a replacement part.”

SCCA FasTrack News October 2010 Page 12

[PaulT]

I went to the ford racing parts web site and noticed that they actually have two blocks, one for FF and one to replace the block used by the Lotus Twin Cam (shorter stroke, larger bore).

Paul

[Larry]

I've got to admit that I was skeptical when Ford said they would produce a new block. I'm glad they did, and the availability of a new block will do nothing but help FF. Competition is good--even in parts production!

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[dc]

I've got to admit that I was skeptical when Ford said they would produce a new block. I'm glad they did, and the availability of a new block will do nothing but help FF. Competition is good--even in parts production!

Exactly my thoughts. Well done to everyone involved with making this a reality.

[DanW]

The cost for a new block is comparable to the cost of Jay resurrecting an old core, sleeving and reboring it. Then you get all of the improvements too.

Thanks Jay!

[Stan Clayton]

I went to the ford racing parts web site and noticed that they actually have two blocks, one for FF and one to replace the block used by the Lotus Twin Cam (shorter stroke, larger bore). Paul

Direct Link to the Ford Racing Parts web page.

[Joefisherff]

Someone should have let the guys broadcasting on SpeedCastTV know that Ford was making a new block as he mentioned a couple of times during the broadcast that the parts for the Kent engine are very hard to find and the blocks are no longer available except in junkyards which is why the class is moving to the Honda power.

[Ken Rozeboom]

That was Dorsey Schroeder who amply demonstrated how out-of-touch he now is with the SCCA which gave him his start. He must have been reading from a Honda PR release given to the announcers.

[dc]

The announcers made basic technical and class rules errors all weekend, showing how out of touch they were with all amateur formula car classes. Honda or Ford PR had nothing to do with that.

[provamo]

funny thing is that you probably can't find Ford engines at "junkyards" like i used to do

whereas you can find a Fit!

i suspect that within three to five years we will find most of the current chassis that have conversion kits avaliable for them (from Honda) will be Honda powed and that used Ford blocks will overwhelm the market leaving Ford Racing holding the bag so to speak...they reacted too slowly too late in the game

[Jonathan Hirst]

used Ford blocks will overwhelm the market leaving Ford Racing holding the bag so to speak...they reacted too slowly too late in the game

The world Kent market is an awfully large bag when compared to the relatively small portion which make up the US Honda converts.

Personally I look forward to being able to buy a new FF shortblock off the engine builders shelf rather than having to BYOBlock and fill it with new components.

Jonathan

[Hamish]

Has anyone yet driven one of these new blocks on track? If so any feedback? Power on the dyno doesn't always translate to the track! On the dyno are they about the same as an old 711M block?

What is the price of these blocks?

Cheers and Merry Christmas everyone!

[John Merriman]

Hamish, the block price is $1299 US as noted in a Ford Racing post above. If you run through the interesting and extensive discussions in this thread about whether the blocks will make more power, I think you'll see that the highly reasonable, informed and sane conclusion is that they will not make more power.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Hamish, there are two guys that I know of that have put several races on the new blocks. They can't tell the difference.

[Hamish]

Thanks gentleman for your answers and Merry Christmas to you all!