New Formula SAE Requirement: Your Feed Back is much Appreciated

[YCFormulaSAE]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Verdana][/SIZE][FONT=Verdana]An introduction first: My name is Michael Nazmack and am a senior in engineering management at York College of Pennsylvania and participant in the YCP Formula SAE program.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]SAE has created a new requirement mandating each team be able to show that they conducted market research and addressed the “customers” needs.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]So my questions are:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]I talked to Eric Prill, VP of Marketing & Communications for the SCCA, from my understanding the open wheel classes not counting go karts are Modified A,B,C,F and Formula Jr. A & B what class would an FSAE car be best suited for, particularly in autocross?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]How many people participate in formula cart racing?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Are there other organizations like the SCCA that conduct autocross or an introductory type of racing for open wheeled cars? [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]In order to promote open wheeled racing what features or aspects would you say would be the most important in a low cost car?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Are there any particular issues that need to be addressed or that are inhibiting people from trying formula racing?[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]If you could, please state what class you race.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Thank you in advance for any feedback that you leave. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Michael Nazmack[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]Engineering Management[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]York[/FONT][FONT=Verdana] College of Pennsylvania[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[Bill Bonow]

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]I talked to Eric Prill, VP of Marketing & Communications for the SCCA[/FONT][/FONT]

Michael,

Welcome to Apexspeed. I've got one question before I'll help you out. I have been leaving multiple messages, sending emails, PM's, smoke signals, telegraphs, ect. to the pickle sniffer you've mentioned above. He will not return my contact. So my question, how did you manage to pull it off?

PS, not sure this is the best section of this forum to get your marketing info, but we'll do our best.

[Purple Frog]

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]I talked to Eric Prill, VP of Marketing & Communications for the SCCA, from my understanding the open wheel classes not counting go karts are Modified A,B,C,F and Formula Jr. A & B what class would an FSAE car be best suited for, particularly in autocross?[/FONT]
Doesn't SCCA have a Formula SAE class already? You need to read the SOLO section at the SCCA website. SCCA calls autocrossing "SOLO".

[FONT=Verdana]How many people participate in formula cart racing?[/FONT]
Did you mean 'formula car racing?' or 'formula cart racing' ???
Assuming you meant 'formula car', the numbers are in the thousands just in SCCA in the US. My Formula Continental registry has over 250 FCs listed.

[FONT=Verdana]Are there other organizations like the SCCA that conduct autocross or an introductory type of racing for open wheeled cars? [/FONT]
SCCA is probably the big dog in autocross action in the US. There are other local groups, there are numerous hillclimb groups, and many groups that are based on one make of car (e.g. NCCC, BMW, PCA, etc.). But for open wheel autocrossing with a true national championship each year, it would be SCCA.

[FONT=Verdana]In order to promote open wheeled racing what features or aspects would you say would be the most important in a low cost car?[/FONT]
Low cost race car is a totally relative/subjective term. My $10,000 car is all i can afford, but it wouldn't pay for the shocks on some of my friend's cars.
Generally speaking, 'low cost' can only be achieved in a very tightly controlled "spec" class in which all parts and development are highly controlled. Even that can get out of hand if the rewards are perceived to be great enough... NASCAR for example.

[FONT=Verdana]Are there any particular issues that need to be addressed or that are inhibiting people from trying formula racing?[/FONT]
Some racers are a bit nervous about being 'expossed', some think they would be safer with more structure around them. Open wheeled racing does not promote rough driving because of the resulting airborne ephisodes.

[FONT=Verdana]If you could, please state what class you race.[/FONT]
Formula Continental

[/FONT]

[racer27]

[FONT=Verdana]How many people participate in formula cart racing?[/FONT]
Not enough! The simplicity, safety and accessibility of Formula Car racing is the best kept secret in Motorsports.


[FONT=Verdana]In order to promote open wheeled racing what features or aspects would you say would be the most important in a low cost car?[/FONT]
Low cost is subjective. I find it obscene that folks spend $900 for tires in a weekend. $900 is two years tire budget for me! In my opinion one of the best ways to keep costs down is:

1. To reduce the need to continue buying consumables. I.e tires. A spec hard tire would be a plus.

2. Also important (to me) would be reducing time between major component rebuilds (I.E Engines and transmissions). If we could go 3 years between rebuilding these, it helps the budget. This assumes rebuild and acquisition costs are reasonable to start with.

3. Spec Gas would be a plus

4. Cars built (where possible) with less expensive, readily available. production car based parts, vs speciality components.

5. Banning exotic (And costly materials)

6. Cars built with serviceability in mind (Ie, non handed uprights)

7. Banning High tech parts. Ie. no more then X data channels on Data System. Shocks not having a retail value of more then XX dollars.

8. Maybe even consider having claiming rules, to keep people from spending outrageous $$$ blueprinting.

[FONT=Verdana]Are there any particular issues that need to be addressed or that are inhibiting people from trying formula racing?[/FONT]

Barriers to entry need to be reduced or eliminated. It is perceived to being complex, expensive, difficult, elitist. Small fields, lack of track time, non-coordinated schedules, licensing confusion, class complexity and parts supply.

Strong mfg support and marketing would be needed to get the mssg out. SCCA does not market well. Smaller clubs are limited.

In my opinion, the schools (Skippy, Roos, etc) are the only ones doping decent marketing and are responsible to introducing allot of folks to the sport.

[FONT=Verdana]If you could, please state what class you race.[/FONT]
Formula F, with Fit Powerplant. With Kent Engine, I would not be re-considering the class.

Hope this helps.

[Dick R.]

I suggest you post your questions regarding autocrossing in the autocrossing sub-forum.

There is an autocross (Solo in SCCA as noted above) class that includes FSAE cars. It is a "sub class" of A Modified. A Mod is the absolute fastest class in autocross. I know of at least one former FSAE National Champion (Todd Bowland) who is also a multi-time A Mod National Champion (different and much faster car). Todd went on to be an Indy Car/Cart racing engineer for top teams and I believe is now with a major NASCAR team (Joe Gibbs?)

There are LOTS of SCCA and independent clubs who conduct autocrosses in your part of the country. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding one or more via the internet. Try scca.com and also "myautoevents.com"

As noted the rules can be downloaded from the Solo section of scca.com

There are serious autocrossers who would like to purchase well done FSAE cars. However, my understanding is that schools generally will not permit them to be sold and/or they may be used as the basis for "next years's car".

Dick
Solo Autocrosser
C Modified - Formula Ford 1600

[Jim Garry]

Regarding clubs to participate with, I mostly autocross with SCCA, sometimes BMW or Porsche Club. There are many more alternative clubs out there with but some of them will not allow open wheeled cars. There are several of these closed minded clubs that conduct events at Fort Devens in Ayer, MA. Very frustrating.

As Dick wrote, above, there are autocrossers who would like to compete in FSAE within SCCA but it is nearly impossible to buy an SAE car.

[ffrgtm]

This is an interesting post. I've always understood that the main focus of FSAE was to create a mock company and then campaign the car for exposure. It seems that in the past few years fsae has almost turned into mini-f1. Many of the teams have completely lost focus on how important the driver is, and the point of the competition in general. I feel as though the teams set ONE goal, and that is FTD at the autocross. In reality the competition is about much more than that... and it's nice to see this rule change for this year.

There are serious autocrossers who would like to purchase well done FSAE cars. However, my understanding is that schools generally will not permit them to be sold and/or they may be used as the basis for "next years's car".

Dick
Solo Autocrosser
C Modified - Formula Ford 1600

I've always been told it is more of a liability issue. Not to mention fsae cars are built with a very low safety factor, and really are only "designed" to last one year. On top of that most of the old cars will go to a former central team member. I tried buying an fsae car from my school but ended up buying a formula ford instead. It's not like you can take an fsae car to a roadcourse anyways.

[YCFormulaSAE]

I want to thank everyone who took time to share their insights. The information that was provided has been immensely helpful. Thanks once again, Michael