My aircooled FSV is ALIVE!

[belair]

After 5 long years, and all the things life brings...............I fired the engine in my Royale rp18 aircooled FSV today! I even got the funky "dry sumped" Solex 40mm carbs to work. I LIKE IT! One wierd thing about the engine......it has a Bosch NSU distributor, originally used in the NSU 4 cyl rally cars in the 60's. I have heard of these ditributors showing up on other early FSV. I wonder if it was factory supplied on the T4 1600 c.c. engines supplied in the day at the advent of the class, after the T1 engines were shown to be a little lacking? Anyway, after all the rivets, sheetmetal work, wrenching, plumbing, and wiring, it is good to hear the engine come to life! As soon as I can bleed the brakes, and set the toe........I need to take it "round the block".

I'll post some pics later this week.

Belair

[Purple Frog]

Many of us can relate to your glee. Few though, can relate to that special flat 4.

I remember watching the Royales at T5 at Road Atlanta in the 70's.

[Rick Kirchner]

I have one of those shorty distributors. It is needed because a chassis brace goes right over the top. Freaking cap and rotor cost $80 and unobtanium, so I switched to a 009 with a 90 deg fiat cap.

I'd love to see your carbs. The entire fuel system was missing from my car (5 pumps! where do you put all that plumbing!!!), and after fooling around with 40P11s for a season switched to 40IDFs and the car ran flawlessly.

[belair]

Rick,

I have a 009 distrributor as well, heck, can't have too many distributors. Would you have a part number on that 90 deg Fiat distributor cap? Where used? 850 Spyder, 124? Yes I have dealt with the cross brace on my car as well.

My Solex carb system has 4 pumps.

1. from the main tank to the "surge tank"
2. from the Surge Tank to the carbs
3. and 4. are the scavenge pumps from the carb fuel bowls. One scavenge pump for each carb. Just like an oil dry sump system, there is "twice the pump",(volume) on the scavenge side as on the pressure side. The whole thing runs on "cube" Facet pumps rated at @ 2 or 3 psi.

Oh Purple One,

Yes, the flat four is an aquired taste. I aquired mine from a stint on a Super Beetle IMSA crew. I never could get over the image of that VW dicing with a Greenwood Corvette. We were at Gainsville Fl., "Home of the Gaternationals" NHRA drag racing event, for an SCCA race to shake down the car. We slept in the tow truck, after towing from Birmingham, Al. The track used the drag strip and a portion of the parking lot for the road course. At night we were serenaded by the sounds of the local drag race ers till @ 1am. When you are 16......it is all good!

Belair

[Hardingfv32]

What issues is this type of fuel system trying to solve?
Does the float system function in the normal manner?

Brian

[rusty718]

Brian,
This system has no floats in the carbs. Lola called it a Weir system.

[Hardingfv32]

But, a fuel level is maintained in the float chamber? So this system is compensating for the problems commonly associate with a float system?

I assume fuel injection was not allowed at the time.

Brian

[rusty718]

That is correct - the fuel level is controlled by the multiple fuel pumps. I was very uneasy about driving mine until I discovered another jet affixed in the incoming fuel line at the point at which it connects to the carb. I still have reservations - what will happen when one or both of the scavaging pumps fail?
Rusty Tanner

[Nardi]

Rusty, I've seen carbs overflow with fuel when the scavenge pump fails. Fun stuff!

[edschubert]

Great Plains has a 90 degre cap. They also have an interesting 2 cylinder VW based motor...fun to look at.

http://www.greatplainsas.com/sc90deg.html

[belair]

Ed - thank you for the info on the dist. cap.I will order one!

On the carbs - I didn't know it was called a Wier System. I wonder if there is a Mr. Wier out there somewhere? In my brief experience with the setup it seems that if the scavenge pumps stop working, then the bowl overfills, and the fuel is dumped into the carb barrels, and floods the cyl chambers. The engine stops running, or gets very rich and the plugs fuel foul. I suppose if you continue to let the pumps run you will get fuel to spill over.

My carbs have a dam built into the center of fuel bowl to keep fuel over the jets. The dam has a slot in it to allow fuel to spill over into the other chamber in the bowl, where it is sucked out by one of the scavenge pumps.

We are getting ready for a high school grad party this week....I will try to post some pics later. I need to take one of the carbs apart anyway..... and fix an errant accelerator pump dump tube.

regards!

Belair

[rusty718]

There probably is a Mr. Weir. The definition of the word indicates a low dam, which seems to describe the system.

[Hardingfv32]

This is staring to make more sense. The low dam is an important piece of the puzzle. A carburetor cannot function without a fixed fuel level in the bowl. But why go to all the trouble? Is the carb mounted at an odd angle, say 45 deg?

Brian

[rusty718]

The only possible advantage that I can see would be to eliminate float problems in corners/lateral forces.

[Rick Kirchner]

The g-loading is the issue, although I never had the problem with Webers (then again, I had a non-winged car and was really slow)

[belair]

Weir! A low dam................well that does make sense. As I understand it, when the cars started using the Solex 40p11-4 they all had issues with the fuel "uncovering" the jets in long sweeping turns, which killed acceleration. The evolution probably started with experiments on the float levels......then Mr Weir's dam was put to good use. The carbs are vertical, not at an angle. After rebuilding them, I can see how fuel slosh would most likely uncover the jets on the "inside" carb in a turn. There may have also been some centripedal (centripetal) force on the float in long turns that prevented it from allowing fuel into the bowl. I have also seen a FSV set up for the WV flat four with side draft Weber DCOE carbs.

Here are photos of the engine before and after restoration. The "overhead" shot shows the carb plumbing pretty well. Enjoy!

Belair

[TeamFRD]

Cool! This is motivation for me too. Tell how that cam grind feels. CB Performance never got back me about your order.

[Rick Kirchner]

pics of the carb mods inside would be tasty. Most of the guys that worked on those are dead and gone, so pics are needed for diehard preservationists.

I had a cam from a long defunct west coast supplier of SV and buggy stuff, who also imported carbs. I think it was a "H" grind - and too radical, probably something better suited for drags. Fuel would bounce off the back of the intake valves and form a cloud around the air cleaners. Every now and then I'd come in with the air cleaner elements wet from fuel.

[S Lathrop]

I raced these beasts. The dry sump carbs were great. It was fun to turn the pumps on before starting and listen to the racket of the all the fuel pumps. On the Zinks/Citations we had 5 fuel pumps.

For some reason the Solex carbs with dry sump setups were better than the Weber carbs. That was the only setup that Bertils built, that I remember.

[belair]

I will post some photos of the carb "innards" when I fix the errant accelerator pump tube. Sorry for the inacurate terminology, I need to reference the Solex exploded drawings....I am more familliar with the inner workings of an AFB or Q jet 4 hole carb, but the Solex seems to be a very simple carb, as compaired to a downdraft Weber IDA.

On the 5 pump system.....PLEASE look up the string to my explanation of this system, and tell me where the "5th" pump is?!

Also, I know where a virgin 1600 FSV t4 engine lurks, in the crate. If one of you want it I will dig up the info and pass it on. Also there is a complete A/C FSV engine with a Solex carb system available for $3K on Race Cars,com....in Wisconsin I think.

I will post more pics....

Belair

[belair]

Sorry............cam stuff.i will post the cam card.........so you can get the grind,,,,,,,,,,, thank Steve Demeter....did I spell that right? He once owned my Royale, and hooked me up on the cam. It sounds wicked....I think it will be one of those "light switch" cams with a very narrow power band....we shall see.

Belair

[S Lathrop]

A 5 pump system consists of a main supply pump, 2 scavenge pumps for the 2 carbs, and a pump for each tank to deliver fuel to the accumulator tank. The Zinks and Citations had dual side fuel tanks. With full fuel tanks, the tank pumps were not required but once you burned the fuel down to 3 gals, we needed the 2 extra pumps. We could run down to 1/2 gal of fuel or less.

Dry sump carb systems were the next best thing to fuel injection. They worked very well and eliminatred a lot of hassels.

[rusty718]

Belair,
I would be interested in the crated engine. I could never get any response from the Wisconsin party.
Thanks,
Rusty Tanner
totjr@aol.com

[belair]

Thank you for the education on the fuel pumps! I hope one of you ends up with the VW "crate" engine..... I want to see photos of it, and I wonder if the distributor is one of the NSU parts?!