NJMP National

[stonebridge20]

Qualifing:

Treadway 23:1
Foster jr 23:9
Scanlan 25:3 (Honda)
Valet 26:1


Times from 2009:

Treadway 23:3
Valet 24:8
Foster jr 25:3
Scanlan 26:3 (Kent)

[Tom Valet]

Hey Mike , I was wondering why my son didnt bother to call me today to tell me how he did.. See what happens when I refused to waste another $900 on a new set of new Goodyears.

For all you guys who think you can run on old tires and win a National (http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40361)
there is your proof that there is no substitute for cubic dollars.

[stonebridge20]

Hey Mike , I was wondering why my son didnt bother to call me today to tell me how he did.. See what happens when I refused to waste another $900 on a new set of new Goodyears.

For all you guys who think you can run on old tires and win a National (http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40361)
there is your proof that there is no substitute for cubic dollars.

Tom, Now he knows how it feels to be a member of the old tire class like me!

[Tom Valet]

Tom, Now he knows how it feels to be a member of the old tire class like me!

Yeah, and he better learn to get used to it!

On a more positive note, it's good to see Mike Scanlan putting in another good showing with the Honda.

Best of luck to everyone in the race, hopefully the predicted thunderstorms will hold off.

[stonebridge20]

[QUOTE]

On a more positive note, it's good to see Mike Scanlan putting in another good showing with the Honda.

I see the start of another Honda restrictor debate starting

Rumor is the Honda is getting a larger plate today!

[M.Sauce]

Tom I ll bet tires were not the only issue.New tires versus 3 cycle ones are only worth 1/2 second from my experience and with my car..5-6 Cycles tires are going to be off quite a bit more.They must have been really old.You tell your son to go to hardware store and get a pint of mineral spirits and a pint of acetone and mix 2 parts mineral spirits to 1 part acetone and paint his tires the night before.If they are really hard this will help and it is a cheap way to get more life from your tires.I am still interested in a harder compound tire rule but only if it is a current tire and not the ALL American Racers tire.

[ric baribeault]

how about the gy430 like cali-fornya?

[Tom Valet]

Tom I ll bet tires were not the only issue.New tires versus 3 cycle ones are only worth 1/2 second from my experience and with my car..5-6 Cycles tires are going to be off quite a bit more.They must have been really old.You tell your son to go to hardware store and get a pint of mineral spirits and a pint of acetone and mix 2 parts mineral spirits to 1 part acetone and paint his tires the night before.If they are really hard this will help and it is a cheap way to get more life from your tires.I am still interested in a harder compound tire rule but only if it is a current tire and not the ALL American Racers tire.

Hi Mike,

These tires were not old, they were bought new in April 2010 for the VIR National. I know this for sure because they are the new style Goodyears. We used them for one qualy and one race in Virginia, and then for one and a half qualifying sessions at Lime Rock in May. So they were two months old and had 4 heat cycles on them heading into Jersey. On their 5th heat cycle at Jersey they were 1.5 seconds off last year's times on new tires (they were even more off the pace than that because the track was faster this year compared to a year ago) . Bill had to push the car so hard to try to get a quick lap in that the tread was gone by the end of the 6th heat cycle and the cords were showing.

[John LaRue]

How many miles were on the tires?

[Tom Valet]

John, a rough estimate:

5 laps VIR x 3 miles = 15 miles Qual
14 laps VIR x 3 miles = 42 miles Race
15 laps LRP x 1.5 miles = 22 miles Qual
10 laps LRP x 1.5 miles = 15 miles Qual

So that's about 100 miles in the first 4 heat cycles. Then at NJMP:

12 laps NJMP x 2.25 miles = 27 miles
12 laps NJMP x 2.25 miles = 27 miles

150 miles or so total after 6 heat cycles. They were down to the cords at Jersey primarily because they had no grip and had to be pushed so hard. The main point here is that after 4 heat cycles the tires were already way off the pace and could not be run competitively against a new set of tires. Even though the decision has been made to continue to have an open tire rule for FF, I intend to continue to point out how ludicrous the tire situation is.

[EACIII]

So what I am getting out of this Tom is that if we went to a harder tire with less grip everyone would have to push them so hard to get grip that the tires would be down to the cord in 6 heat cycles?

Just another view point. And I am sure I will be corrected on why that would not be the case.

Ed

[Tom Valet]

Ed, soft tires that are 4 heat cycles old are vastly different from hard tires that are 4 heat cycles old. It has to do with how the different tire compounds change with the heat cycles.

[ric baribeault]

ed, harder compounds in FF are frequently intended for bigger tires on heavier cars. you can't generate the same heat with less weight. it's a physics thing.

Tom, i'm on my way back from laguna this weekend, where somehow, they've managed to have a tire rule on the regional level. and imagine this....they're all happy with it. it was mentioned in three separate conversations i was part of, and never brought up by me. as was pointed out, the only one that benefits from open tires are the few with tire deals. and that forces everyone else to try to pay for, what they get for free. it's funny how there's a bit of stink still going on about the honda while no one considers the advantage of being able to put on 2 or 3 sets of tires at no cost.

and mike, since i mentioned the honda....it's better with a 29, but still light. it'll get killed at the sprints.