Paddle shift assembly

[JohnPaul]

I don't think I'll be getting a flatshift/auto blip type system, just seems from everyone I've been talking says that they are just too unreliable and I just need something that works so I can get some seat time. But what I would like is a paddle shift with a push/push cable system. Does anyone know where I can get a reasonable (inexpensive) system? Thanks, JP

[Wren]

Push-push? Why?

I think you want push-pull.

Fab your own with a solid linkage. I think everyone who goes from cable to solid linkage gains time from it.

[RussMcB]

Solid linkage for a paddle shifter could be tricky. Cables are easier to route. Jerry Freeman made a simple paddle shifter for his FB and he says it works great.

I don't have a paddle shifter, but ...

On my car (after several iterations) I went with two cables. I liked the idea of always having a cable pull for both upshifts and downshift. While one is pulling, the other is pushing. I considered solid linkage but could never find a good route from the right to left side of the car.

I haven't missed a shift since this iteration (1+ years). I'll post pictures if anyone wants to see them.

[jerry freeman]

You don't have to have the solid linkage. Not sure how you could make that work with paddles. I use a good morse type cable.

THE CHASSIS SHOP

Supreme/extreme
part # 820-11X or whatever length you need. It's very flexable and strong. Never broke one or had any shifting problems.

My paddle setup is just a Stohr copy and I only use one cable to push and pull. The c/c distance on the arm on the motor is roughly 2 in. I can get you some pics and exact measurements if you want. It's really not very hard.

Jerry

[Wren]

Yeah, I was thinking a normal shifter. Going from cable to solid linkage was probably the single biggest speed increase Brandon found on his car.

I still don't like using a cable to push, seems to wear out the fibers faster.

[jerry freeman]

Wren

Care to elabotate how the the switch made him faster? I need all the help I can get.

[RussMcB]

I still don't like using a cable to push, seems to wear out the fibers faster.

Yea, I agree. That's why I went with two cables. I think they help each other.

The only improvement I might do to my arrangement is to add some springs to encourage the shifter to return to center. Currently mine just uses whatever is in the transmission. It works fine, but that's probably because the cables are new and in good shape. The addition of some some springs at the shifter end might make life a little easier for that cables.

Probably goes without saying but protect the cables from heat. A lot of cars have had to work through that problem.

[JohnPaul]

Push-push? Why?

I think you want push-pull.

Fab your own with a solid linkage. I think everyone who goes from cable to solid linkage gains time from it.

that was a typo, i meant push/pull. I like the idea of a solid linkage system. Who would be able to get this done? I was told Jay Novak but would he be able to do a solid linkaage?

[JakeL]

John Paul -

So to rather summarize what the other folks have said:

1.) Agreed, most folks with pneumatic or solenoid-based shifters always seem to spend more time trying to get them to work 100% than having them actually work right.

2.) Most cars seem to use one or two cables for shifting, since routing is the least headache. My Stohr uses a single cable with a bump shifter, and most with paddles use a pair of cables to push/pull. They've got a picture on their website of the kit: http://www.stohr.com/html/paddle_shifter.html. I think the cables are just whatever standard push-pull cables you can source from McMaster-Carr.

3.) Solid linkage for a paddle system would involve a whole lotta bellcranks and joints and other malarkey to turn all the corners that need turning. The cables work just fine when installed well. I have zero issues on my Stohr. I can't see gaining time with a solid linkage, as I have no delay, missed shift, etc on my car. I too am curious how it helped Brandon, unless the cables were a big PITA before?

I think the short version is, don't overthink this too much. Paddles or a bump shifter, getting these cars to shift well doesn't take a whole lot of expensive parts, just a couple of good cables and a bit of thought on the install.

-Jake

[ReynardF1000]

If you pay close attention to cable bend radius and length and build robust cable clamping mechanisms with low friction, a cable is just as good as solid. If you build a solid system and have any bending or friction it won't be any better than a cable system that's not built correct.
This is from experience!

[Wren]

Brandon can probably say what it gave him back in feel better than I can. He ran a straight cable with almost no bend to it, about 3' long from a torque tube under his leg back to the shifter. He pushes forward for up and that was wearing the fibers out quickly and it wasn't always easy to get to return to center for the quick downshifts. It took some conscious effort to put it back on center. It was also difficult to keep the heat out of the cable because of the inconel insulation he uses to keep oil off the header if the engine ever pops.

Going to a straight tube to replace the push pull cable made the whole shifter system worry free. The shifter returns to center every time, easily and quickly. I know that he stopped bitching about it and went a lot faster once it was in. The braking zone is pretty compressed in these cars already.

[JohnPaul]

Brandon can probably say what it gave him back in feel better than I can. He ran a straight cable with almost no bend to it, about 3' long from a torque tube under his leg back to the shifter. He pushes forward for up and that was wearing the fibers out quickly and it wasn't always easy to get to return to center for the quick downshifts. It took some conscious effort to put it back on center. It was also difficult to keep the heat out of the cable because of the inconel insulation he uses to keep oil off the header if the engine ever pops.

Going to a straight tube to replace the push pull cable made the whole shifter system worry free. The shifter returns to center every time, easily and quickly. I know that he stopped bitching about it and went a lot faster once it was in. The braking zone is pretty compressed in these cars already.

who made this system?

[Wren]

who made this system?

Brandon built almost his entire car himself. The majority of his car came into his backyard as chunks of aluminum and rolled out as his car.

He definitely built his own shifter.

[Firman West Cars]

Firman West Cars has a no-fault paddle shifter system that we developed with Geartronics in the UK that we have been using all season without failure. It is an solenoid-based air-assisted electronically operated shifter mechanism. It's not cheap but pays for itself by extending the life of your engine and gears. You absolutely can not over-rev using this system.

[jerry freeman]

I e-mailed you about that this winter.

I got no info.

1. will it work on the 07-08 Suzuki
2. how much $

I'm probably not going to change any time soon but it would have been nice to get some info to make my decision.

Jerry

[RussMcB]

<snip> You absolutely can not over-rev using this system.

Interesting. How does it prevent overrevving by the driver selecting the wrong gear by mistake (downshifting rather than upshifting)?

[Brands]

JohnPaul - Van Diemen already make a solid link shifter mechanism for our car if you wanted to go that route. On my to do list is a paddle shift with (of course!) carbon paddles.

[Firman West Cars]

Hi Jerry,

Sorry that you had difficulty getting in touch with us last winter. We were having issues off and on back then with our email server. Also we we very distracted getting our dry sump system for the 2009/2010 Suzuki engine up and runing. So somehow we did miss a few inquires. Normally we are pretty prompt in our replies to inquires.

Please see my private message to you regarding our paddle shifter.

Many Regards,

Thomas Copeland
Firman West Cars

[ghickman]

Ok Ben, finally got you on the carbon paddle part.

I have 4 complete paddle shifter assemblies already made up. If anyone wants a set let me know...very reasonably priced. You can use either push pull cables or cables like what is show in the picture from the inside of my car....oh and it's adjustable reach.

Gary Hickman
Edge Engineering
FB #76

[Firman West Cars]

Hi Russ,

The system is electronically controlled so that once programmed it will refuse to shift into gear at anything other than at the proper RPM. You can continue to click the paddle but until the proper RPM and speed is matched, it simply won't engage the gear. Once the correct RPM for that gear is matched at that point the shifter will engage the gear. (of course you have to click the shifter when that RPM is matched). So even if you shifted it into the wrong gear nothing will happen as it will not engage. It's absolutely fool-proof. It doesn't use cables. It attaches to the steering wheel and the carbon fiber paddles move with the steering wheel.

This is by far and away the most advanced paddle shifter system available for the club racer. We spent quite of bit of time with Neil Wallace at Geartronics getting this system perfected. Currently, Firman West Cars is the exclusive dealer North America for this system.

Besides ourselves one other person has this system installed in his car. Terry Biner out in Salt Lake City has it in his Firman. Today he drove his car for the first time with the paddle shifter installed. I heard he is a pretty happy with the system.

We've had inquires from other FB drivers about putting the system into their cars as it will work with the older Suzuki engines. Right now the system is installed on 3 Firman cars, all running the 2009/2010 Suzuki engine, 2 owned by Firman West Cars and one owned by Terry Biner.

[Brands]

Ok Ben, finally got you on the carbon paddle part.

Darn it, you beat me to it! I'd better get on the lathe and turn something up - second thoughts maybe not!