thinking about getting in an F1000 car...

[captain454]

All,

I was on here snooping around a little over a year ago thinking about getting into F1000. There are plenty of track clubs around here that will let me run a formula car "casually" to get a feel for it before I move up to competition. I've been thinking about this for a while, reading, talking with folks, and I'm still interested so I'm getting ready to just pull the trigger and get myself into a Stohr. The prices on what appear to be really good examples are within my price range, my only concern is the longer term costs and reliability of running this car. Engines seem relatively cheap at only $2-3k each, as do brakes, fuel, tires, etc. What are the typical costs per weekend running for this car, assuming no accidents? I don't have a crew, team, or anything like that, nor do I plan on having any, but I will always have a couple of friends to help out... is that going to be a problem? Being in SoCal, I am a bit concerned about local mechanical support for my car, and what that would cost too. I'm not afraid to turn my own wrenches, but I don't have a lot of experience working on motors.

[carnut169]

You'll love an F1000.

Fantastic cars to drive and the reliability issues seem to be getting better. Most folks here have family/ friends as crew... some have paid support but I'd say it's rare. You also don't need to worry about working on the engines per say, as the rules require stock motors and when they go, they are gone- you just buy a new one.
If you have some mechanical skills you'll be fine- any questions you have the folks here will be happy to answer.

Really, working on these cars is pretty easy.


Costs depend on how competitive you want to be. I'd say between $1000 and $4000 a weekend depending on a lot of things... running on used tires and staying at the track can save a bunch. That said, if you want to win, figure on a set of tires for each weekend ($700+/-) and a test day ($200+/-). then add entry fees, towing costs, race gas, wear & tear, upgrades, damage, etc.

[captain454]

well, $1k/weekend is OK, but $4k is getting a bit crazy. I suppose I'll just have to try to run things on the "cheap" side, if possible! Probably not going to be looking to be competitive for at least a year, so hopefully running a non-competitive environment will keep costs down.

I notice you said the reliability issues seem to be getting better, are there still issues? What are the issues, what is there to look out for? I've been reading a bit about the Stohr, which is the direction I'm leaning in, most people seem to have little to no serious problems.

[S Lathrop]

captain454;

What is you background in racing? FB is like taking basic pilot training in a high performance aerobatic plane. It is not a class to start formula car racing. It also requires a good mechanical skill set. FF or FC are much more bullet proof mechanically. I consider FV to be the best training ground for formula cars and by far the most cost effective.

If you are up to the class then it is the best performance value for the buck. FA performance for FF prices.

[nulrich]

How do costs for FB, FC and FF compare? At first glance, it seems like with the Zetec motor in FC and the Fit motor in FF, engine costs could actually be less than FB. For a Zetec or Fit you do have to buy the "kit," which is around $10k +/-, but then the core motors are really cheap, even buying brand new. Shouldn't have to do that often, though, so far the Zetec is very reliable, and I'd expect the Fit to be the same.

How much is a comparable "kit" to convert a motorcycle engine to race ready in FB? Is everyone dry sumping the engines now?

Having a separate gearbox in FF and FC makes things different, since you have to carry multiple gear sets, but does it affect running cost? I guess there are just more parts to go wrong, since in FB you just change out the whole engine/clutch/gearbox lump.

Same amount of wings and bodywork to deal with in FC and FB. Less in FF, obviously, so fewer things to damage on track.

The FB has a lot more power and is lighter, so eventually they should be a lot faster than FC. And the sequential shift is definitely more modern!

If the engine problems have been worked out, FB seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck. Nice to see lots of different manufacturers out there, too, makes it more interesting for those of us who are into racing technology.

Nathan

[RussMcB]

Not sure how accurate the following is, but maybe ball park.

Dry sump $1,500 - $2,500
Header/Exhaust - $500 - $1,000
Modified harness - $300
Beefier clutch parts - $100 - $200
Fuel pump/system - $200?

Many opt for Power Commanders to adjust AFR. Maybe a custom air box.

Not everyone is dry sumping but seems most are. It seems the DSR guys with wet sumps have a new improved pan/baffles that fixed their problems.

[Richard Dziak]

If you have to spend up to $2000-$4000 per weekend, I would NOT even consider owning a car, as this sport gives no monetary rewards for winning in these amatuer ranks. If you think your Michael Andretti then you may end up spending lots of cash to record podium wins in National races. This sport and the F1000 class can be very expensive. Ask many owners who, who consistently blow up engines or smash up cars.

If you want to go out and have fun, enjoy the sport, go to open track days and run a few races each year, the F1000 can be cost effective to own. I am in Albuquerque, NM this weekend running with a great group SWMS.org. I drive 225 miles each way to get to the track.

Entry fees: $225 for a weekend Sat & Sun. That includes 2 practice sessions, 1 qualifying, and 1 race per day.

Hotel rooms : 2 nights $100 per night for $200

Fuel for race car: $50.00 max

Fuel for traveling: $125.00 for roundtrip

Food: Dependent on what you want to eat......$50.00 to $100.00

Most clubs provide a BBQ party on Sat the first day of racing that is included in the entry fee, for the driver and their crew.

I NEVER buy new tires. You can buy used 90%-95% rubber from John Berget for $270.00 or under for a full set delivered to your door via UPS. Top name brands: Goodyear Eagle, Hoosier, Hankook, Avon. These tires can last several weekends for the "out for fun" owner or "regional racer". I spend no more than $600 per year for tires as compared to other drivers who need new tires every other weekend or weekend at about $800 per set. That can add up to thousands each year alone for tires. Also consider mounting fees at your local tire shop.

My Phoenix F1000 F1K.07 has 1900 miles on the engine, and about 50 hours total. I have had NO problems whatsoever with the engine. I don't beat it to death. Only cost to date after 2 1/2 years $250.00 for radiator repair for leaking rad, and new rad built. Complete review and evaluation after 18 months by the car builder Phoenix in 2 1/2 years for $600....

So the class can be very cost effective if your out for fun and will consider regional events. If you can step out of the box from SCCA membership, licensing, dues, SCCA entry fees there are many other clubs that will match your F1000 with other Formula cars.

So you decide what you want, and how you want to race. I have read of many driver/owners who spend thousands of dollars in this class, for a cheap $10-$20 trophy and bragging rights. Perhaps they have deep pockets.

There are many F1000 cars that pop up here on ApexSpeed that are of high quality, that for many; they buy the car, then can't afford to spend the "disposable income" on weekends.

Be objective in what your goals are in this class. The F1000 cars can be very reliable racing machines that are a blast to drive and proud to own. If you think your headed for a ride in an Indy car or F1 by owning one of these beauty's be prepared to blow engines, damage the cars, and spend a lot of money for nothing. There is a limit that one should spend for "enjoyment", in my opinion, but if you have deep pockets, then enjoy and the sky is the limit for what you can spend. If you don't have deep pockets, you can still enjoy the class, but be budget minded in everything you do.

I am a one man owner with a wife who attends all races with me and open track days. Straps me in the car, checks tire pressue and is on the other side of the radio communications, packs the ice chest with drinks and makes sandwiches, and packs up the helmet and race gear. I trailer the F1000 on a open flat bed 14' trailer and have a 2005 Ford F150 Pickup with shell on the back for storage of tires, tools, ez-up etc.

So it's strictly the type of racing you want to do. I go to the big tracks in my immediate area like Phoenix International and Firebird International, and race at small local tracks like Sandia Raceway and ArroyoSeco Raceway. Open track days in Albuquerque at Sandia is $40.00 for a half day 2:00 PM to 6:00PM, at ArroyoSeco Raceway we pay $80.00 for a full day. We have fellow formula racers with FC's, FF's, and have a blast. We bring out a BBQ, food, and make it a fun day.

You decide, it's your bank roll. You can spend allot or spend a little. It's your pocketbook.

Check out my website for a list of races attended and number of events in my F1000. I have done allot for a very small amount of money. For me this class is very cost effective, and a blast to own.

[rickb99]

If you have to spend up to $2000-$4000 per weekend, I would NOT even consider owning a car...

Entry fees: $225 for a weekend Sat & Sun. That includes 2 practice sessions, 1 qualifying, and 1 race per day.

Hotel rooms : 2 nights $100 per night for $200

Fuel for race car: $50.00 max

Fuel for traveling: $125.00 for roundtrip

Food: Dependent on what you want to eat......$50.00 to $100.00

Most clubs provide a BBQ party on Sat the first day of racing that is included in the entry fee, for the driver and their crew.

I NEVER buy new tires. You can buy used 90%-95% rubber from John Berget for $270.00 or under for a full set delivered to your door via UPS. Top name brands: Goodyear Eagle, Hoosier, Hankook, Avon. These tires can last several weekends.....

I agree with your numbers, Richard and that's about what we spend running an FC with a Pinto engine. Except, we camp or do Motel 6 (about $55 a night) cause we need 110 low lead at $9.60 a gallon ($120 a weekend).

On the other hand, I've seen FB National Championship guys go through 2 to 3 sets of tires on a 3 day weekend PLUS pop an engine and install a fresh $4,000 fully race prep'd (but stock), Suzuki (as opposed to the E-bay specials).

So do it your way or, the way paved with gold!

Your way is more 'fun'

[Wren]

How much is a comparable "kit" to convert a motorcycle engine to race ready in FB? Is everyone dry sumping the engines now?

No, there are a lot of wet sump systems out there. I think eventually everyone will transition over to dry sump. Everyone is still gaining knowledge about what works.

so eventually they should be a lot faster than FC.

They already are. They are running faster than a lot of Atlantics also. Several people have been fast enough to be on the Atlantic podium at well attended nationals. I do agree that the cars are extremely raw and still need a lot of development.

Be objective in what your goals are in this class. The F1000 cars can be very reliable racing machines that are a blast to drive and proud to own. If you think your headed for a ride in an Indy car or F1 by owning one of these beauty's be prepared to blow engines, damage the cars, and spend a lot of money for nothing.

Running at the front of the F1000 grid does not require blowing up engines. It is a cost effective class either way.

That said, I don't think it is a great beginner class. Every start seems to be the slower cars with a lot more horsepower blowing by the fast FB's into turn 1 and things can get jammed up, especially if the green comes out late.

[Stan Clayton]

Every start seems to be the slower cars with a lot more horsepower blowing by the fast FB's into turn 1 and things can get jammed up, especially if the green comes out late.

I saw this happen at a nat'l out here recently, and was surprised, as I presumed the lighter weight would give the advantage to the FB over an FA. So I went to an online 1/4 mile drag race calculator to run the numbers. Boy, was I surprised!

To do that I went to Drag race calculator; entered 1000 lbs and 175 hp, then clicked the "calculate" button twice (to show both ET and MPH).

I also went to the Drag race calculator and entered 1255 lbs and 250 hp, then clicked the "calculate" button twice.

If you click on each link you will get two windows or tabs which you can click between to compare the times. Feel free to change the weights or hp as you wish. For instance, a Swift 014 has to weigh 1305 lbs. Or add weight for fuel, etc.

Have fun!

[tjcezar]

Two often many will scare away newcomers with their $3000 per weekend rant but for those of us who want to have fun we can do it for less. Its just knowing your goals when you start.

If you have to spend up to $2000-$4000 per weekend, I would NOT even consider owning a car, as this sport gives no monetary rewards for winning in these amatuer ranks. If you think your Michael Andretti then you may end up spending lots of cash to record podium wins in National races. This sport and the F1000 class can be very expensive. Ask many owners who, who consistently blow up engines or smash up cars.

If you want to go out and have fun, enjoy the sport, go to open track days and run a few races each year, the F1000 can be cost effective to own. I am in Albuquerque, NM this weekend running with a great group SWMS.org. I drive 225 miles each way to get to the track.

Entry fees: $225 for a weekend Sat & Sun. That includes 2 practice sessions, 1 qualifying, and 1 race per day.

Hotel rooms : 2 nights $100 per night for $200

Fuel for race car: $50.00 max

Fuel for traveling: $125.00 for roundtrip

Food: Dependent on what you want to eat......$50.00 to $100.00

Most clubs provide a BBQ party on Sat the first day of racing that is included in the entry fee, for the driver and their crew.

I NEVER buy new tires. You can buy used 90%-95% rubber from John Berget for $270.00 or under for a full set delivered to your door via UPS. Top name brands: Goodyear Eagle, Hoosier, Hankook, Avon. These tires can last several weekends for the "out for fun" owner or "regional racer". I spend no more than $600 per year for tires as compared to other drivers who need new tires every other weekend or weekend at about $800 per set. That can add up to thousands each year alone for tires. Also consider mounting fees at your local tire shop.

My Phoenix F1000 F1K.07 has 1900 miles on the engine, and about 50 hours total. I have had NO problems whatsoever with the engine. I don't beat it to death. Only cost to date after 2 1/2 years $250.00 for radiator repair for leaking rad, and new rad built. Complete review and evaluation after 18 months by the car builder Phoenix in 2 1/2 years for $600....

So the class can be very cost effective if your out for fun and will consider regional events. If you can step out of the box from SCCA membership, licensing, dues, SCCA entry fees there are many other clubs that will match your F1000 with other Formula cars.

So you decide what you want, and how you want to race. I have read of many driver/owners who spend thousands of dollars in this class, for a cheap $10-$20 trophy and bragging rights. Perhaps they have deep pockets.

There are many F1000 cars that pop up here on ApexSpeed that are of high quality, that for many; they buy the car, then can't afford to spend the "disposable income" on weekends.

Be objective in what your goals are in this class. The F1000 cars can be very reliable racing machines that are a blast to drive and proud to own. If you think your headed for a ride in an Indy car or F1 by owning one of these beauty's be prepared to blow engines, damage the cars, and spend a lot of money for nothing. There is a limit that one should spend for "enjoyment", in my opinion, but if you have deep pockets, then enjoy and the sky is the limit for what you can spend. If you don't have deep pockets, you can still enjoy the class, but be budget minded in everything you do.

I am a one man owner with a wife who attends all races with me and open track days. Straps me in the car, checks tire pressue and is on the other side of the radio communications, packs the ice chest with drinks and makes sandwiches, and packs up the helmet and race gear. I trailer the F1000 on a open flat bed 14' trailer and have a 2005 Ford F150 Pickup with shell on the back for storage of tires, tools, ez-up etc.

So it's strictly the type of racing you want to do. I go to the big tracks in my immediate area like Phoenix International and Firebird International, and race at small local tracks like Sandia Raceway and ArroyoSeco Raceway. Open track days in Albuquerque at Sandia is $40.00 for a half day 2:00 PM to 6:00PM, at ArroyoSeco Raceway we pay $80.00 for a full day. We have fellow formula racers with FC's, FF's, and have a blast. We bring out a BBQ, food, and make it a fun day.

You decide, it's your bank roll. You can spend allot or spend a little. It's your pocketbook.

Check out my website for a list of races attended and number of events in my F1000. I have done allot for a very small amount of money. For me this class is very cost effective, and a blast to own.

[ghickman]

Captain454-
I'm running a National effort in a FB I designed and built myself. I own a machine shop in San Diego where the car is kept and maintained.

If you want to come see what a FB effort is like in the flesh and also discuss your car choices you are welcome to come visit any time. Assuming you're in Socal not a far drive to get the real skinny on what it takes. You may even get to see some of the Phoenix FB parts being machined.

Regards
Gary Hickman
Edge FB #76