Formula Ford Frame Identification

[Arbee]

Hi Folks,
I need help in identifying an old Ford Chassis and bits that I have. There is no ID plate or Chassis stamping that I can see. It has engine turned bulkheads that look factory, and the steering rack is a Jack Knight with the number (as far as I can make out) 225458. . Cast Rear Uprights, looks to be side mounted rads and the fuel tank looks to be proprietary,. If anyone can recognize any of the photos, I'd appreciate it. Thanks

[Scott Hutchison]

Boy, that's a tough one. There are a couple of unique features like the cast aluminum pedal pads and the fiberglass covered aluminum fuel tank. It's also unusual for the cast rear uprights not to have any identifying marks on them.

The fuel tank is similar to my old Merlyn Mk24. Otherwise I've got nothing.

Good Luck.

[old 59]

Do you know anything about its history?

Where are you in Ontario?

[David G]

Matt, could that be the original Ash from early eighties?, not the one Rice had, but the one that went thru the timing building at Shannonville. The side paneling looks distingtive, but I cannot recall.
Dave

[problemchild]

I don't think so Dave. The Ashs were Lola 340-2 influenced. Nothing here looks like Wayne's workmanship. This looks Crossle influenced to me. I was wondering Pulsar but before my time

Whoever took this apart had no respect for race cars .... that we know. They torched the trailing links only 2" away from a bolt. Brutal!

[Brian]

The roll bar braces are cut through, about 2" from the frame rails. I think it's an ex-frame now...

[bob darcey]

The square and rectangular tubing and the way the pedals mount remind me of an Elden PH10, but this car had inboard rear brakes and side-mounted radiators. I'd guess Elden, but it's a wild guess.

[problemchild]

Can anyone recognize Hawke uprights? There were two DL20s (side rads?) that made it to Canada in the early eighties .... and a homebuilt which used uprights, rack, etc from a scapped DL2A (or B). One of the builder's "expert" buddies critiqued the car as "not even having diagonal floor bracing".

[Hawke]

I've always understood that all Hawkes have fabricated uprights.

[old 59]

Hey Greg,

What homebuilt car was that?

[problemchild]

Steve,
Mike Wietzes built atleast 3 FVs but he also built a FF somewhere from 82-85. He bought a "Zoo Racing" Hawke for parts, built his own chassis, and put Lola 540 bodywork on it. I think real life got in the way about the time he finished it and he moved on, selling the engine and trans. I don't think that he ever even took it to the track but I could be wrong.
It is amusing to play the "name this car" game, but seeing Dave, you, and I on this thread, brought me back to the wild old days .... our Saturday night trips into the Four Seasons Belleville, my yellow Chevy van, and other 80s stories that our kids don't need to hear.
Matt knows enough people that I am sure he will figure it out without our help. It was an amusing distraction though!
Cheers!

The last Ash,


PS .... The chopped up car is not the Weitzes car. (Added later)

[bob darcey]

Stumbled across this "81 Crossle, and see a lot of similarities:

http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26595

[provamo]

Bob Darcey: top front pick-up points not same as Crossle

Hawke: not all DL Hawkes had fabricated uprights

[HayesCages]

Rear upright, A-arm and trailing arm mounts look exactly like the Crossle' 33F I'm working on. Just doesn't have it cast into it, eh?... Lot's of Crossle' influences in the chassis too. Engine mount looks similar to an old Lotus or maybe a Tiga FF that had the cast one replaced with a steel unit.
No body work to give us more clues?
Lawrence

[kea]

Any numbers stamped into the main roll hoop (like for an SCCA log book) near a 1/4" or so drilled hole?

[Gmretired]

Gent's
I don't know what the car is but the rear uprights look to be Lotus to me. Here is a pic of some casting I was going to purchase a while back.
Dave

[Arbee]

Thanks for the Input guys. Sorry for taking so long to log back on to the sight. As for your question Steve, all I know about the history is what I told Greg. I found it in Brampton through a Buy and Sell Ad. The guy I bought it off hadn't a clue. The frame is an ex frame now as was noted. somewhere along the line some one took a Sawzall to it. Maybe a nasty divorce who knows ? I taped it up so it may be identified. The Hewland that was sold before I got it was painted red. Ivan Graham dismissed any Crossle connection when I showed him pictures a few years ago. No CASC tags or stampings. All the metal is still there except for the engine cross brace . Perhaps this is where a number may have been stamped. Sure was surprised to see all the Ontario guys on the sight. Brings back memories.
Cheers Matt

[Mike Scanlan]

The castings and the frame look just like the PRS that I rebuilt last winter, which might be why it looks a lot like a Crossle, but not exactly.

[mark a. malley]

Mike our PRS f/f's have rear uprights with PRS as part of casting.
However--the shift knob looks to be PRS as the the front pedal box area
front and rear hoop.Could be an early RH01 PRS...I believe the Davie Jones car went to Canada..It was yellow ..may have been an RH02.Could be ...?
regards
mark

[Comp89]

Does it look like the rear top part of frame where the cross member goes be detachable for ease of removing the engine?

If so it could be a Pulsar..... Modified Crossle 30/32...

[RobLav]

Are you sure this is a Formula Ford and not an air cooled SuperVee?

(On edit, I can see that it is not...)

It reminds me a lot of my old Tui SuperVee, but it is not quite the same.

Vintage is early '70's.

[HayesCages]

The engine mount points are kind of a give-away. It's a FF of some kind.

Here's something I just thought of: Is the chassis welded or brazed? UK built= brazing, US built= welding (most of the time)

[old 59]

Didn't notice at first, but are those brackets for side mounted rads that I see in the first picture down on the right, in the first post? ( Picture 4.....I guess)

[JByers]

Yes it is similar to a Crossle 30/32 but the frame rails are the wrong dimension and this chassis is missing the diagnoal brace.

[HayesCages]

I think it's a home-built. Looks a lot like the Crossle' but just enough different to not be one.
I'd fix it and go racing!

[David G]

You might want to get stronger tape. electrical tape might not be strong enough! Try some hundred mile an hour grey duct tape!

[spapole]

That's a PRS RH02. I have one like it.

[normv]

This is identical to my Hawke MK21

[cjahn]

This is identical to my Hawke MK21

Agree - All the small details scream Hawke. The lower frame rails in the engine bay and the frame design.... (even similar to my DL12 I owned)

[Ian Lenhart]

Check out Hawke Racing Cars / Formula Ford Facebook page. Is it a bizarre coincidence that someone else is trying to identify the same model or is this the same car? Norm V, I believe you made a comment on the Facebook post.

Ian

[Mike B]

Check out Hawke Racing Cars / Formula Ford Facebook page. Is it a bizarre coincidence that someone else is trying to identify the same model or is this the same car? Norm V, I believe you made a comment on the Facebook post.

Ian

This is a 10 year old post. I still don't think that's a record, though...

[jrh3]

This is a 10 year old post. I still don't think that's a record, though...

Wonder if it's still sitting in the snow?

[Hawke]

This is identical to my Hawke MK21

Norm, how long have you had that Hawke?

[normv]

Check out Hawke Racing Cars / Formula Ford Facebook page. Is it a bizarre coincidence that someone else is trying to identify the same model or is this the same car? Norm V, I believe you made a comment on the Facebook post.

Ian

Hi Ian , I suspect they are different cars as the one on the Facebook page appears to be in better condition and without arms having been cut in half .

awkes are new to me so I am doing lots of searching trying to find as much as i can on the MK21 ( which hasn't been a lot to be honest). In doing so I found these couple id Id questions , since I am lucky to have a complete car (or jigsaw puzzle) with known history I figured it would be useful to help id these .

I did realise this was a very old post, but I find the beauty of Apex speed is, the info you are looking for has often been posted by others a long time ago, so hopefully the next person trying to id a MK21 will find this useful, as they do seem relatively unknown, even on the Hawke page.