New car pricing

[Matt Conrad]

I guess being away from the day-to-day of the racing scene has caused me to miss out on what I perceive as a huge price escalation in formula cars. I've seen new (and even used) F1000 and F2000 cars being advertised for North of $60K!! That's seems crazy.....especially when one of them is as a "Roller". I understand that the dollar is in the toilet right now and that makes the cars from the UK uber-expensive, but what about the other US-built cars....are they going up as well?

FYI...When we built the first 3 turn-key Maloy SR's cars back in 2005, they were below $50K with Double-Adjustable Penskes, AIM Dash, 2 sets of wheels, and even a small spares package. That's for a car with a carbon fiber body and full carbon fiber undertray. Our 2007 production F1000 cars went for about the same price in 2007.

I'm pretty sure I saw that Phoenix Race Works has the new F1000 for right around $50K...at least for the first few cars. For my money, I'd order up a new Phoenix and go racing with the other $10K or so I saved!

Merry Christmas!

Matt Conrad

[D.T. Benner]

Thats why Worldspeed is building their car with mostly U.S. sourced components. From California -Frame,Engine and assembly. From Oregon-All bodywork.
A little Stimulus spending right here at home.

[ghickman]

As we all know asking price and what they actually sell for are usually vastly different. I agree with Matt that the UK cars are expensive because of the exchange rate. The RFR which is likely the car Matt is refering to is a great car built by a known builder.

In my professional opinion (as an engineer / machinist) the Phoenix is a superior package at a much lower cost. Dustin (the Phx. designer/owner) doesn't have 3 decades of car building experience....but I believe the same thing was said about David Bruns back in the mid 70's. What Dustin brings to the table is passion, ingenuity, and engineering skills that are honed thru his years at UofA FSAE program.

2010 will be interesting, the Phoenix piloted by a competent driver will be at the front. My money is on the Phoenix. For those considering a new car purchase give it a closer look and buy American.

Gary Hickman
FB #76

[carnut169]

When you buy a Phoenix your not only buying an American made car, but possibly the best F1000 chassis available to boot!

*Sigh* If I just had the $50k!

Karting will have to hold me over for another season.

[rickb99]

Sadly, another factor effects the prices of 'factory built' FB's and all other specialty race cars. It ain't like any one builder is going to get an order for 50 of them in 2010.

Look how long it took Stohr to establish itself as a wide spread (and fast) D/SR.

The profit margin has to be there to keep the people working and pay for the building. It's a long cycle to get the capital investment out of a venture of this kind.

NONE of these guys have a big corporate check book behind them like Ford, Chevy, Mercedes or (heaven forbid) Mazda to use the success for corporate promotions.

But well WORTH it in terms of personal satisfaction to the builders.

[drdestructo]

My money is on the Phoenix. Literally.

[kjpiehow8395]

<------This Guy likes the thread immediately above this one! Lets do this!

[Richard Dziak]

I laid down $42,500 in 2007 for the 2nd production car Phoenix F1000,,,that being the F1K.07 model. Looking back at the price then, I thought it was alot of bucks. But now seeing the prices of the F1000 cars, I feel like I made a great purchase. Unlike other F1000's out there, I have literally spent zero dollars on the car. I had Dustin go over the car after 18 months of use for $600.00.....after removing all body work/panels and a complete inspection by Phoenix, there was nothing that had to be done. The car has been driven, but not beaten to death. So I feel I got my moneys worth. Yes there is normal maintenence, but that is minimal considering my Amsoil sponsorship and supply on hand and the tire sponsorship. The Phoenix has been very cheap to operate. I use standard pump gas for the fuel choice. The George Dean engine has performed flawlessly. I did pay Dustin for new spocket and chain replacement.

The new F1K.09 is a slightly different car with enhanced engineering and new body design. I will say this that at that time both Matt Conrad who was the owner at the time, and Dustin built me a great F1000 racer. I have had total enjoyment and the car looks like in showroom conditon.

So, I too have to support the Phoenix model and Phoenix Race Works for a number 1 choice if your going new. I have seen many posts about conversions and also see the owner/drivers constantly putting more money into the conversions. After time spent in garages after hours, pouring more funds to correct problems that occur, going new is the ONLY way to go in my opinion. Sure there are guys that enjoy tinkering and building their own.

The economy will not improve much in 2010, and I have written extensively here on ApexSpeed giving my thoughts about the economy as it is my occupation and how it has affected racing nationwide in 2008 and 2009.

The best deals today are from guys who bought new F1000's principally Stohr, that are now having to sell them due to economic constraints.

Randy Lamps Stohr F1000 at $42,000 likes like a great deal. Hand over the cash and bargain for a lower price and most of the time the seller will take the lower offer. No bank will finance these cars, so your only way to buy is cash. Disposable income. These cars are NOT investments.

So I support the new Phoenix for sure as a number 1 choice. But don't overlook the classifieds here on ApexSpeed for top quality F1000's that are for sale. I have seen some great deals.

As the engineering and development of the F1000 racers move forward, the end user has to expect higher costs. The hope is here that costs will not escalate to the point that only those racers with "deep pockets" will be able to afford the new cars. If this scenerio develops, it may be very difficult for the top name constructors to make a go of the business. No constructor can afford to continue to run a business with deficits. Business is about profits.

So lets hope that the pricing of the new F1000's can stay reasonable. As for the US Dollar vs. the Euro, the US buck has been weak. That may very well change in 2010 with the US dollar advancing and showing signs of strength which will ultimately help the US consumer who wants to buy from overseas. But don;t overlook possible inflation costs in 2010 and beyond here in the USA which will only drive end costs higher.

Hopefully there will be a way to control the end cost of these fine expertly crafted F1000 racing machines.

The Phoenix F1000 is "one hell of a car". I am a living testimonial for Phoenix Race Works. The car is FANTASTIC, even if it's a 2007 model.

[billwald]

I havent seen an FB yet that I didnt like or wouldnt drive. I'd own one of each make - all in Orange - if I could. Gorgeous cars!

And two and half years later, and about 25 race weekends, Im still pleased with my purchase.

You guys that scooped up factory cars around $42K did very well indeed.

Happy New Year!

[cbr900rr]

I am looking forward to seeing the FB cars for the first time in person at PIR in a few weeks. From the research I have done I am leaning towards the Phoenix if I can afford to go new.