FC Owners Registry

[Purple Frog]

Today I attended the CRB meeting at the PRI show. One thing became painfully obvious to me. The classes that are the most organized and informed of the various SCCA processes are the classes that are the most successful at getting what their majority desire. S2 and American Sedan would both be examples of classes that have their act together. These two classes have a proven track record of being organized in letter writing campaigns when it comes to issues pertaining to their class.

I heard at the meeting today that there are over one thousand FC owners out there that the club officialdom feel they must represent. So they feel they can't be unduly influenced by a few vocal folks. Some officials feel they must defend the silent majority.
I doubt there are even 300 SCCA FC racers out there that have raced in class in the past year. I'm thinking it's closer to 100. Which means that in effect 900 ghostly non-racers control what effects us 100 or so real racers. We need to change that.

Also obvious is the fact that the CRB, and various advisory committees, have no idea who the active racers are, or how many there really are. You can own a HP Spriget that hasn't been raced in years, or maybe you are thinking about buying a race car next year, or you might be a vendor selling parts, as long as you are a SCCA member, your letter to the CRB about a FC issue they may be debating might have as much impact as a letter from last year's FC national champion.

Also, surprising to me, many very active FC competitors rarely sign on to Apexspeed. So using Apexspeed as a forum to "get the word out" has its problems. Many FC racers do not have accounts on the SCCA web site, nor have the switch set to notify them online of Fasttrack releases. Let's face it, if you wait for Fastrack to come out, you missed the ball.

I'm thinking of creating a registry of actively racing FC car owners. Currently i'm thinking of just a simple email list, no addresses, no phone numbers. The purpose i see is to have some vehicle to get the word out that there may be a pending piece of legislation about which you should send in your opinion. I'm not concerned what your opinion might be, I'm concerned that the active racers aren't being heard.

So if you want to be part of this project send me a PM, or an email. Tell me the type of FC car you currently own, and the races you have entered as an owner/driver in the past year. If you know guys that don't hang out on Apexspeed, send me their email or phone number, and I'll try to contact them to see if they want to be on the list.

[Rick Iverson]

...I'm thinking of creating a registry of actively racing FC car owners. Currently i'm thinking of just a simple email list, no addresses, no phone numbers.

Rick Iverson II;
msengineering@q.com;
RF94/95;
Pinto;
Iron head;
Land of Lakes Region;
Active.

[rickjohnson356]

How much trouble would it be to have two lists? one for active FC racers (at least one race in the past 12 months) and inactive FC racers.

the inactive list could account for people who for financial reasons-- need motor rebuild, between jobs, or other priorities are not currently active in the FC racing class.

rule changes would affect some of the currently inactive racers who are close to becoming active, and it seems to me that they should be included in the process.

you can add me to the inactive list: rickjohnson@mindspring.com

[a. pettipas]

Aaron Pettipas; pettipas09@gmail.com; RF00; active ('10 will be my first season in FC)

[JHandley]

Greatidea, Frog.
email sent

[John LaRue]

This was the genesis of the old Formula Ford Underground; Jake and I were discussing this very same issue as to how things would move more quickly through the SCCA channels if we could bring the group together and he thereafter proposed setting up the site and the rest is history. Unfortunately the web does not produce a great deal of consensus on hot topics, but rather is a good place for people to snipe at one another.

That being said, I believe that SCCA can provide this type of data. I would also presume that they can break down such into those who raced in the last 12-24 months. If not, it would seem to be readily available through the points standings. I would further assume that Stan Clayton would know what can and cannot be accessed through KS.

[Purple Frog]

John,

Does that mean you are volunteering to get in touch with Topeka and mining that data out for us?
Are not points standings national only at Topeka? I'm a believer that active regional guys are just as important.

Rick,

I am willing to keep a list of all the garage queens out there. An example of a great use for that data would be to blast out an email to all Reynard owners to see if one has a spare ARB blade on a shelf somewhere.

I would like to know just how many of us really are out there.

[Becker Motorsports]

e-mail sent
ernie

[Pop Chevy]

I'm a newby here , but I'm in.
Gregg

[Stan Clayton]

I would further assume that Stan Clayton would know what can and cannot be accessed through KS.

The Club could tell you how many and who has raced an FC (or any other class for that matter) over the past couple of years, but probably not much further back than that. FWIW, there were about 65 FC drivers who entered at least one National last year, based on Club figures. About 110 entered at least one Regional, and there may be some cross over there.

They can also tell you how many FCs are homolgated with the Club, but not how many are still active or who owns them. A homolgation certificate is good "forever", and there is no formal ownership tracking mechanism for any cars in SCCA that I am aware of.

Hope that helps...

[Purple Frog]

Stan,

Thanks! That does help. 65 national drivers, and 110 regional = 165. Since i ran nationals and regionals, let's lower it to 164.

There may be 1000 cars out there, but no where close to that are active.

I'm not going to have to buy more memory for my laptop to be able to handle this registry.

[rickb99]

..... or you might be a vendor selling parts, as long as you are a SCCA member, your letter to the CRB about a FC issue they may be debating might have as much impact as a letter from last year's FC national champion....

And there-in is part of the problem...

1.
The ONLY letters that should be 'considered' by the CRB or BOD are ones from ACTIVE races. NOT parts vendors (they can be solicited for 'opinions' on technical issues). NOT people who race outside the class and are just SCCA members.

EXAMPLE:
Although probably a good company, seems like Quicksilver is gaining a LOT of power internal to the SCCA concerning matter of engine specs in several classes. There are other engine builders in the country, you know.

Although we don't (and probably many other FC owners) race in SCCA, MANY, MANY of the alternative clubs 'fall back' on and use the class rules as per the SCCA GCR. So ANY FC owners are effected by decisions made within the SCCA concerning the class.

GOOD PLAN, Frog. Now, about those new pistons and rods

P.S.
In ICSCC racing, ONLY currently licensed drivers in a class vote on rules changes.

[carnut169]

How about starting another thread where people can, over the course of the year, post the names of FC drivers from the grid sheet.

IE-

Road Atlanta National 7/11/10

John Doe #51 99 Van Diemen
Billy Bob #03 94 Citation


etc....


at the end of the year you'd have a pretty accurate list of active FC pilots. Inactive drivers can post names here, and people that simply know of someone with an FC in the garage can post as well...

1000 cars, 165 active. Hard to imagine.

[jim morgan]

We only have one car but two active drivers.

[John LaRue]

Thanks Stan. I will make an effort to get that information from KS. In making decisions many different resources must be considered including the engine and chassis builders, but they are much easier to solicit opinions from and often times come to a consensus on their own. The driver/owner contingent is that whcih is fractured. It was proposed in the FF discussions some time ago that there be one vote per entry over the past season; seemed to be reasonable to me.

[azjc]

So... where do us that race FC's to SCCA rules but not with SCCA fit in?? Three FC's running @ the ProAutoSports event in Phoenix today and none of us run or plan on SCCA. Heck, I'm not going to even bother renewing my SCCA membership this coming year.

[rickb99]

So... where do us that race FC's to SCCA rules but not with SCCA fit in??

Don't feel bad, AZ.

We have 7 to 9 FC cars running in ICSCC (International Conference of Sports Car Clubs) events in the Northwest (3 years ago there was ONE).

NOTE:
Maybe 3 or 4 FC's show up from the ENTIRE Northwest and California for the SCCA double national.

All we can do is sit by and watch what the SCCA does to the rules. If something drastic happens that we don't like. Request the club (ICSCC) to "lock" the rules or, add an addendum to ICSCC rule book stating it's SCCA rules + or - a specific section.

[carnut169]

So... where do us that race FC's to SCCA rules but not with SCCA fit in?? Three FC's running @ the ProAutoSports event in Phoenix today and none of us run or plan on SCCA. Heck, I'm not going to even bother renewing my SCCA membership this coming year.

Then why would you care how the CRB deals with FC?

[Redbone027]

Great idea FROG !

Count me in however you want to build your spreadsheet :

• 84 Reynard - Pinto
• RF02 VD - Zetec
• active in multiple Regional, National, & F2000 PRO events
• SCCA, SVRA, HSR, this year ....and other series if the budget allowed

How many votes does THAT get me ?


BTW - was good to see you @ PIR !
Ardie

[Rick Kirchner]

Carnut - we care because of:

1) resale value
2) ability to run with either club

West of the Rockies, the SCCA is at best on parity with the other clubs in open wheel.

You don't have an FC anymore, right?

[rickb99]

Carnut - we care because of:

1) resale value
2) ability to run with either club

West of the Rockies, the SCCA is at best on parity with the other clubs in open wheel.

You don't have an FC anymore, right?

RIGHT ON RICK.

Up here in the Northwest, ICSCC has 99% of the open wheelers. 13 to 20 FF's per race and 4 to 7 FC's per race plus a couple of FA's and a hand full plus of FM's. SCCA only draws a decent (not great) open wheel turn out for the one double national.

YES Carnut, we care. Keeping current to SCCA rules for resale value and 'most' of the other clubs look upon FC's, FF's, F500's FM's and FA's as 'real' to the class 'spec'.

[azjc]

Then why would you care how the CRB deals with FC?

Because until everyone comes to their senses, most other organizations follow the SCCA's lead when it comes to class rules so it does affect us. We have a total of 6 FC's that have run with us this year, none have an aluminum head, Zetec, iron head with a modified cam or a lightened flywheel. But because SCCA allows those items someone just might show up with them... then the rest of us just might have to do the same .

Now we could hold to the "original" FC rules, but as a rule we pretty much would let anyone run... after all having fun is goal #1. BTW - AZ region has 3 cars in FC so far this year, 4 last... we out number them .

And just maybe the SCCA will come to their senses and us that don't like putting up with the current system just might join/renew and run our cars in SCCA events. Should that not be the goal of SCCA - grow their membership?? Are we not all part of the Formula continental / FF2000 community?

[Lindsey Wolfer]

This is a good idea and worth the effort to "organize all the FC drivers.
I think it would also be good to put out a name and email list, for all to see, so that drivers from any region can contact/ email others in their respective area. The reason:
most of us want to race with a big field. It doesn't matter if it is an upcoming SCCA race, FPR/EMRA race or whatever. If a race is coming up and drivers start asking "who is planning on racing..." this will help build car counts. The more that plan on going the more that plan to go. This is a way to organize all FC drivers to build up our car counts at all races.
I am a national licensed SCCA driver but I spend most of my time racing in Formula Pro racing races, Bill Scott series races and an occasional SCCA race or F2000 pro race. The point is to "advertise " whenever racers will be attending a particular race so that the rest of us can see if we can make that race, too. We need to make our presents known to keep any race organization from "playing" with track time, excluding us or otherwise not acting in our best interests.

[Stan Clayton]

Now we could hold to the "original" FC rules, but as a rule we pretty much would let anyone run... after all having fun is goal #1. BTW - AZ region has 3 cars in FC so far this year, 4 last... we out number them .

And just maybe the SCCA will come to their senses and us that don't like putting up with the current system just might join/renew and run our cars in SCCA events. Should that not be the goal of SCCA - grow their membership?? Are we not all part of the Formula continental / FF2000 community?

Would that be the "original" 1600cc air-cooled VW FC rules, John? Or perhaps the "original" 1100cc 4-valve Cosworth BD-type rules in FC? Or just maybe the 1100cc motorcycle engined FCs that ran at 930 lbs in FC up until a few years ago?

Or are you so new to FC that you think the 2000cc Pinto is the only FC engine there ever was?

Look, do yourself a favor and don't wander in like a "Jimmy-Come-Lately" and suggest the new engine and tweaked Pinto specs means SCCA is rudely uprooting something that's been cast in concrete forever on a whim. The Pinto you race is at least the FOURTH major engine paradigm in FC, overlooking the Wankels, two-strokes, et al. SCCA remains committed to the original idea of FC...a step above FF and below FA (and back again...FB). And so now we have moved beyond an engine that went out of production 35 years ago.

Long live FC!

[rickb99]

Would that be the "original" 1600cc air-cooled VW FC rules, John? Or perhaps the "original" 1100cc 4-valve Cosworth BD-type rules in FC? Or just maybe the 1100cc motorcycle engined FCs that ran at 930 lbs in FC up until a few years ago?

Or are you so new to FC that you think the 2000cc Pinto is the only FC engine there ever was.... long live FC!

Wow, Stan. BIG reaction.

I think what AZ was simply saying is, there are MANY FC cars out there running in 'the class' that are not 'up' to the highest level optional equipment available. And although NOT running in SCCA, they are STILL on the track as FC's and having fun.

Continuity of the rules is important to all owners of FC cars no matter where they are being raced at the moment.

We run in ICSCC because of a 13 race schedule at 5 challenging tracks all within an 8 hour tow MAX (Spokane). If SCCA could provide us with the same level of racing we'd probably run their events.

[Steve Demeter]

Stan do not forget the water cooled super vees introduced when Formula C and Formula Super Vee were eliminater at the start of 1979 and the class we all call FC (known then as Formula Continental) was created.

The old Formula C (as in A,B,C) was the home of many high tech for their time cars. I remember Jim Truemans March with the titanium tub.

[Pop Chevy]

(known then as Formula Continental)

Oh geeze ! I was still calling it Formula Continental ! Last I raced in SCCA was 1981. I thought you guys still used that designation. Super Vee was a pro class and FC was the screaming 1100 Cosworth.

[Stan Clayton]

Steve and Pop, the class formerly known as FC is still Formula Continental...

Technically, nowadays 'FC' is the class designator required to be shown on both sides and the front of the car, though we we all also use it as a shorthand name for the class.

[carnut169]

You don't have an FC anymore, right?

No, it's been a while. Still interested in what happens, but since I'm not running (or even owning) now I shouldn't get a vote.


It would be neat to have a list of active SCCA FC drivers... that way if 80% (130?) of them voice an opinion, it could be considered the majority.

[Rick Kirchner]

I've always thought there ought to be a voting system and it ought to go like this:

member - 1 vote
owner (requires tracking cars) - 1 vote
each race driven - 1 vote

Of course, tracking cars etc, night give one the ability to restrict voting to issues you a stake in and prevent skewing other issues.

[azjc]

Would that be the "original" 1600cc air-cooled VW FC rules, John? Or perhaps the "original" 1100cc 4-valve Cosworth BD-type rules in FC? Or just maybe the 1100cc motorcycle engined FCs that ran at 930 lbs in FC up until a few years ago?

Or are you so new to FC that you think the 2000cc Pinto is the only FC engine there ever was?

Look, do yourself a favor and don't wander in like a "Jimmy-Come-Lately" and suggest the new engine and tweaked Pinto specs means SCCA is rudely uprooting something that's been cast in concrete forever on a whim. The Pinto you race is at least the FOURTH major engine paradigm in FC, overlooking the Wankels, two-strokes, et al. SCCA remains committed to the original idea of FC...a step above FF and below FA (and back again...FB). And so now we have moved beyond an engine that went out of production 35 years ago.

Long live FC!

Actually I've been involved on & off with formula cars since the mid '70's...I supplied parts to Gurney to build their FF, was even at the unveiling at his shop. Also supplied all the transmissions to Gary Wheeler (12 - nice sale) for his Super Vee. Worked closely with FB back when everyone used a BDA, Atlantics...How about you?

Oh, and if you've followed my post we do allow air cooled Super Vee's to run in FC... does your organization??

Sorry for the late reply, I've actually been racing a Pinto powered FC this week end - how about you??

Boy... get up on the wrong side of the bed today? Or do I know you from the past and some how did you wrong and you still hold a grudge?

[azjc]

Steve and Pop, the class formerly known as FC is still Formula Continental...

Technically, nowadays 'FC' is the class designator required to be shown on both sides and the front of the car, though we we all also use it as a shorthand name for the class.

Read your precious GCR... you are quite wrong. Even I know that .

[Dave Gomberg]

Read your precious GCR... you are quite wrong. Even I know that .

No, you are quite wrong. From the very first part of the FC rules:

B. FORMULA CONTINENTAL PREPARATION RULES
Formula Continental is a Restricted class. Therefore, any allowable modifications,
changes, or additions are as stated herein. There are no exceptions.
IF IN DOUBT, DON’T. Homologation is required for all cars registered
after January 1, 1983.

Dave

[Purple Frog]

OK guys, let's not steal my thread.

Here's where we stand so far. The database has about 78 entries, of which I have about 36 email addresses. Interestingly almost half of those who have emailed me, are not racing in SCCA club, but in other sanctioning bodies (VARA, COMMA, Formula Pro, SCCA Pro, etc)

There will be a lot of fields in the database to try to make it useful. Chassis make, model, year, engine, iron vs. AL, etc. I'm recording SCCA members, division, snail addresses, phones... basically whatever data people willingly supply.

It is my intention to not release any individual info unless that person allows. So this email list won't get into the hands of scammers, spammers, etc. If I send out an email to folks, the other emails won't be visible.

I have about another 30 to enter. Should be over 100 by dawn.

If you want to be part, and you own a FC, email me, PM me, or post here.

Rick99, haven't heard from any of you NW folks.

[Proulx]

Ray Proulx (active) 4 race w/e 09 all at Summit Point

99 Mygale FC #29

chefrejean@aol.com

[rickb99]

Rick99, haven't heard from any of you NW folks.

Frog, Taylor Archer (running out of B.C.) is the ONE and only cross over driver from ICSCC to SCCA up here that I know of. And he had his car for sale on Apexspeed a while back.

Can we join your 'list' as the owner of an FC even if we don't run SCCA events. Yes, SCCA member here?

[Purple Frog]

If you own a FC, YES you can be on the list. It is not sanctioning body specific. Just FC specific.
But, please tell me the sactioning body you to which you belong.

Right now I have 105 active cars, and about 69 email addresses. 41 are known zetecs.

Not bad for a few days.

I fear finding the garage queens will be harder. That will be a separate list. If you have a queen let me know name, email, make, model, etc.

[Purple Frog]

Collected 119 active cars, and 77 email addresses, so far.

going to bed.

[azjc]

No, you are quite wrong. From the very first part of the FC rules:

B. FORMULA CONTINENTAL PREPARATION RULES
Formula Continental is a Restricted class. Therefore, any allowable modifications,
changes, or additions are as stated herein. There are no exceptions.
IF IN DOUBT, DON’T. Homologation is required for all cars registered
after January 1, 1983.

Dave

Location of class designation & how many are required... do I need to quote for you or are you able to look it up yourself???

Sorry Frog - Had a great weekend running with a great group of non SCCA FF2000 drivers running in FC ... nice to be with drivers that understand what racing is really about.

[Stan Clayton]

There's a Swift SE-3 in Vacaville CA, plus another FC here, marque unknown, that aren't active. I'll try to find out more info about them and write you off line.

Sorry about the thread-sh*tting...