Formual Vee vs Formula Ford

[GCFRED]

Im still trying to decide between buying a Formula Vee or a Formula Ford. I just finished the Skip Barber 3 day racing course at Road Atlanta and had a blast. I really enjoyed the cars they used. I beleive they are simalr to a Formula Ford (tell me if Im wrong). The formula cars they used in the school have a 2 liter 4 cylinder dodge engine, 150 hp at 5800rpms, weight is 1100 pounds. The cars does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and has a top speed of 130 mph and 1.2 g cornering capability (no wings). Is this actually what a formula ford is? Also, if I drop down to a Formula Vee, will I feel a tremendous drop off in performance to the point I wouldnt enjoy it. I have been favoiring the Formula Vees due to the less complicated maintenance and set up issues as well as a greater number of participants than in the other classes. Any opinions out there?

[belair]

Im still trying to decide between buying a Formula Vee or a Formula Ford. I just finished the Skip Barber 3 day racing course at Road Atlanta and had a blast. I really enjoyed the cars they used. I beleive they are simalr to a Formula Ford (tell me if Im wrong). The formula cars they used in the school have a 2 liter 4 cylinder dodge engine, 150 hp at 5800rpms, weight is 11000 pounds. The cars does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and has a top speed of 130 mph and 1.2 g cornering capability (no wings). Is this actually what a formula ford is? Also, if I drop down to a Formula Vee, will I feel a tremendous drop off in performance to the point I wouldnt enjoy it. I have been favoiring the Formula Vees due to the less complicated maintenance and set up issues as well as a greater number of participants than in the other classes. Any opinions out there?

I think you mean they weigh 1100 lbs! F Fords have a 1600 cc engine and I think would be a better choice over a Vee. When you are ready to move up., typically a F Ford will be an easier sell. With that said, you might also look at Formula 1st, sort of Formula Vee on steroids, (1600 cc's, disc brakes...). Also you might look at Formula Continental, 2 litres, wings, and can be bought for about the same $ as a F Ford. I started with a 1982 Reynard Formula Continental.........should have kept it!


My 2 cents.........any one else want to weigh in?

[Bill Bonow]

GCFRED,

If I were you, I'd head to Road Atlanta next weekend for the ARRC. There will be some of the best CFF and FST cars in the country doing battle to claim the ARRC title. FV will not be represented, but SCCA's newest Regional open wheeled class, Formula First (FST) will be on hand. With FST, you get the best of both worlds. Ultra low maintanance/cost of FV and performance close to CFF. Depending on the track, FST can average 1.6 G with spikes up to 1.8 G in cornering.

The only way to know is to come to Road Atlanta and see for yourself.

[Josh Pitt]

choose what ever class has the strongest entry numbers in your area.

racing alone or with one other car in class sucks.

[FVRacer21]

GCFRED,

You will get many opinions and these might confuse more than clarify.

FV will be cheaper than FF to run - with the slick tires they corner at a higher g that the school cars you drove. (BTW - the school cars were derived from FF at one time; while fast, they have gotten heavier and bulkier - still a lot of fun.) They are slower in acceleration and straight line speed and reward smoothness over agressive driving.
You can maintain a FV by yourself without a lot of special equipment. Just don't think you will be shifting alot.

FF is a great class, right now there are a lot of great deals out there. The problem is that they can be expensive to run, maintain and don't crash! My opinion is that without the proper knowledge, you can mess up a FF more than a FV. FF need special equipment to properly align (they are very sensitive compared to FV), transmissions require more maintenance, and don't overlook that FV being air cooled is much simpler.

If you are going to go with FF, you will have to have a prep shop in your area, or hook up with someone who really knows what they are doing. Check out the FF forum for current engine discussions.

Formula First (FST) has the potential to be a great class - you already mentioned that FV is more popular in your area, FST might take a while to get the numbers up.

The botton line is to look at your buget - remember to include all travel fees, race entries, special tools, 30% for crash damage your first year, and all safety gear. Don't forget money for tires, even if you will used 2nd hand tires. The worse thing you can do it buy a great car and then not have the money to race it. OBTW - if you did not get an SCCA license through the school, count on an SCCA school or two.

As far as starting in FF2000 (Continental) - it used to be you started in FV, moved up to FF and then on to FF2000. Can you jump right in? Yes, but everything is magnified - setup, running costs, crash damage. If you are not a 5 time kart champion, the average new driver will be happy without wings to start.

ChrisZ

[Daryl DeArman]

Also, if I drop down to a Formula Vee, will I feel a tremendous drop off in performance to the point I wouldnt enjoy it.

Yes you will feel a tremendous drop off in acceleration. No drop in cornering and as long as you have somebody to race against you will enjoy it.

Think back to times you have driven the little fun carts at the indoor places or minature golf places(save the K for the real thing), you and buddies racing against each other have fun even though the things are slow.

No matter how fast the car you choose to race is, you will get acclimated to the speed fairly quickly. As long as everybody on the track with you is going similar speeds you don't have as much sensation of speed---until something goes wrong.

Get whatever your budget and mechanical aptitude will allow you to race more often and have people to race against. If that's FV/FST/F500/FF/FC/FE/FM/FB or FA in your situation you'll have fun.

[Larry]

V's don't really accelerate. You're typically in 3rd gear before you get out of the pit. With a V, you'll learn how to be smooth and how to draft. I still marvel at a good V race, because there is constant drafting and passing. Winning in a V requires real talent.

FF has twice the horsepower as a V. It also allows a variety of springs, shocks, adjustments, nearly infinite gear selection, etc. Some people love this aspect, while others accept and endure it. It's your call. I love FF performance, but hate the cost and reliability of the Kent engine. Hopefully the Fit will remedy this.

If I were starting out, I'd look at FRCCA and buy one of their Banshees. You get performance that is close to FF with expense less than FV, and you get 3 or 4 hours of track time on a weekend instead of just one. You can buy a NEW Banshee for about $14K. The downside is that it isn't SCCA-legal, so if your planning on SCCA, it would be a problem. Personally, I do my stewarding with SCCA and my racing with FRCCA.

Larry Oliver

[Marshall Mauney]

If I were starting out, I'd look at FRCCA and buy one of their Banshees.

With all due respect to FRCCA, is that good advice for someone in South Carolina? His closest tracks will be Kershaw and Roebling (and not too far from Road Atlanta), so I would think he needs to focus on SCCA cars....

[Stan Clayton]

I beleive they are simalr to a Formula Ford (tell me if Im wrong). The formula cars they used in the school have a 2 liter 4 cylinder dodge engine, 150 hp at 5800rpms, weight is 1100 pounds. The cars does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and has a top speed of 130 mph and 1.2 g cornering capability (no wings). Is this actually what a formula ford is?

A FF and the car you drove are not very similar other than they don't have wings. A FF will weigh about the same (a little less), but has only about 110 hp and much lower torque. A FV has only about half the hp and tq as a FF...do the math!

That said, an FV can be a hoot to race, but it is a very specialized skill that is totally different to what you drove at Skippy.

V's don't really accelerate.

This pretty much says it all. Even the humblest FF closes in on a Vee at a scary rate of speed.

If I were starting out, I'd look at FRCCA and buy one of their Banshees. ... The downside is that it isn't SCCA-legal, so if your planning on SCCA, it would be a problem.

The Banshee is available in SCCA-legal trim. You just have to specify it when you order one.

Yes you will feel a tremendous drop off in acceleration [in a Vee...].

See a trend here...

The car you drove is more like a Formula Continental. They have wings and weigh 1200 lbs, but have about 145-150 hp and a 2 liter engine, and will run circles around an FF or FV.

[Larry]

Marshall, you're correct about running with whoever is convenient to you. I have the good fortune of having a choice.

Larry Oliver

[dc]

Be realistic with your budget... there is nothing wrong with running a really quality FV over a lower end CF or FF. That's what I'll be doing next summer.

Hopefully.

[racer27]

Having done 2 skippy schools, I can comfortably state that their non-winged school cars (Neon) are pretty comparable to CF/FF performance. Biggest difference is their treaded tires were a little less grippy and a hell of allot more audible.

[Daryl DeArman]

One thing to also consider is that it is quite possible that what you were able to extract from the Skippy cars (depending on your prior experience) was a fair amount below their full potential--eventhough you may not have felt so. It is likely that somewhere down the road you will be going faster in a FV or FST than you were going in the skippy cars.

[steve zemke]

What is your budget? Once you know your budget, you should be able to pick the class. FF is going to cost more than FV.

[todcp]

Fred
My skippy instuctors told me my FF would run circles around a school car.
They were correct. The cornering is way way better on a FF in G's and attitude. The school cars are a bit loose and running on street radials.
I was told the school cars are around a minute for a lap at Lime Rock. A well driven club ford will knock three to five seconds off that and a FF four to eight seconds quicker even though the school car has a lot more horsepower. The difference in stick and handling for a FF or FV vs.the skippy car is eye opening and a gut check in a high speed corner.
Either FF or FV will amaze you.
Tod