Dump your zetec! apparently the USF2000 will be powered by Mazda

[LJennings]

I don't get your logic. This helps SCCA how? Further dilution of an existing series?

We should move more drivers out of SCCA racing to alternate venues?

We should also encourage SCCA workers to run those events as well?

Do you honestly think in this economy there is room for another series?

Do you intend to purchase a new car and go and try to become an Indycar driver?

Keep watering everything down until the guys who are actually racing in the club say

forget it and find another hobby. Of course all of those young guns with disposable

income will step up and replace the old crowd........sure they will.

When and who said it is a requirement for a new series to help SCCA out. With the current direction the BOD has taken in the last few years, who's interest have they been looking out for. It has not been the members.

Most of the BOD votes are split, tin-tops vote on formula car issues and formula car guys vote on tin-top issues.

It is amazing how the members in the club do not rally against the BOD until there is possibly some change to their class. Everyone forgets that any decision effects them regardless of the targeted class.

And do I plan to purchase an Indy car and go pro, no, but one of my daughters thinks she would like to and I really do not see what advantage SCCA brings to an up and coming young driver.

What about FE, FB, IT, SM, ST, FST, ...... did they not also water existing classes down?

It may be time to play golf.

[Dennis McCarthy]

If you feel SCCA is so irrelevant why not just simply go race with another sanctioning group and dismiss SCCA altogether?


And I would repeat the question, why should SCCA change their rules to accomodate a competing organization?

[LJennings]

If you feel SCCA is so irrelevant why not just simply go race with another sanctioning group and dismiss SCCA altogether?


And I would repeat the question, why should SCCA change their rules to accomodate a competing organization?

And explain to me why competitors must share less track time with classes that do not make the 2.5 cars per year. And why at the runoffs do all classes have option to run but may not be awarded a championship if they can not field 10 cars and possibly screw someones chance up to win their class.

Is this not the same logic but turned against the internal organization?

[Dennis McCarthy]

I would suggest to you the club is far from perfect.

That being said, I still pose the original question why should SCCA make rules to

facilitate the growth of other organizations?

[LJennings]

I would suggest to you the club is far from perfect.

That being said, I still pose the original question why should SCCA make rules to

facilitate the growth of other organizations?

Where have I said the SCCA should change the rules to help another series? What point you missed was SCCA should adopt the Mazda to help prevent its members from leaving.

Did SCCA not just change the rules to promote the growth of HPD?

[Billybob]

Has anybody heard if there are any IRL teams buying into this series and running a car? I think it would be cool if they did and develop relationships with young drivers.

What kind of pricetag is it to run this series for a complete season? Any estimates?

I found Apexspeed.com just today and it's pretty cool.

[Dennis McCarthy]

I'm curious Loyd as to which drivers or car owners you know that have threatened to leave SCCA if Mazda is not allowed to bring a motor to FC?

I've run the majority of both regional & national races in the northeast this year and I've never heard even one driver or car owner make mention that they want yet another engine option.

"Where have I said the SCCA should change the rules to help another series?"

I believe my question comes from this but maybe I misunderstood?

"If Mazda is the new engine for the series they should hurry up and modify the current F2000 engine section of the GCR and submit a proposal to the BOD to allow it in the club as an alternate engine"

The majority of the competitors I ran with this year were pretty happy that the whole FC engine deal seems to have found a bit of parity at last.

[LJennings]

Is that not he theme that started this post?

[provamo]

so what is all this fuss about?

[HazelNut]

Has anybody heard if there are any IRL teams buying into this series and running a car? I think it would be cool if they did and develop relationships with young drivers.

What kind of pricetag is it to run this series for a complete season? Any estimates?

I found Apexspeed.com just today and it's pretty cool.

nobody seems to know and the series organizers aren't saying. But guess that if the F200SC series is $125k for a full year all inclusive (call around some F2kCS teams if you want to verify that number), this new series will be more than that, as there will be more traveling and is supposed to run at bigger event. Bigger event always cost more and that cost gets passed right down to your entry fees. I heard rumors of series buy in for teams and entries being a few grand.

That all make sense to me as "the dan series" is apparently trying to target former fBMW teams who are used to paying through the nose for a dog and pony show. Hell if this costs $250k a season to run it would be "cheap" compared to what the former fBMW teams have been paying.

[jim morgan]

our current plan is to see what it costs and then win it for about 1/2 of that

[Billybob]

Could somebody direct me to where to locate a list of teams that are participating, or is it too early to be requesting pricing etc...

Any guess on what what average driver age will be?

I look at this series as a nice transition from Skip National, Russell, FBMW into Star Mazda. I don't think this is the type of competition that a karter could jump into without a year or two of Formula car experience under their belt, correct?

[Stan Clayton]

I don't think this is the type of competition that a karter could jump into without a year or two of Formula car experience under their belt, correct?

No...it happens all the time. An experienced and competitive karter should be able to make this jump without issue. If there is an issue adjusting, I would have to question the driver's basic skill level.

[allof6]

Has the IRL lifted there age restriction?
Last I knew you could not compete at a IRL weekend if you were under 18!

[Billybob]

From what I hear, the minimum age is 16. But, I can't find anything official.

[Bumpdraft]

It's not because of the IRL, it's because of Marlboro & Penske. It's happened twice at Watkins Glen in the past 3 years. One driver in the Rolex Series, Colin Braun & Krohn Racing, tried to file a lawsuit over it in NYS Supreme Court, and almost got the injunction to stop the entire weekend. This past summer a 16 year old regular in the F2000 Series, Victor Carbone, was not allowed to race at the IRL weekend for the same reason.

Bumpdraft

[Billybob]

I don't see Marlboro graphics anywhere on race weekends within the IRL. Are they still involved?

[Bumpdraft]

Walk through the vendors area and there is a Marlboro/Penske booth handing out material to spectators. Federal law prohibits advertizing on TV. That's why the classic prelaw paint job remains on the Penske cars with the same Marlboro font used in the graphics. It's a subliminal reminder of who pays the bills.

Bumpdraft

[Billybob]

I would think the target market of this series would be the 18 and under competitor. Most competitors above 18 would be in Star Mazda or Atlantics if they were following the logical progression to become a open-wheel professional. Not saying it couldn't be done following an alternate route, but this seems to be the trend.

[allof6]

Thank you. I thought it was still 18 but wanted to here from some others. It will be because of that rule that the "young guns" with daddys money will go to programs such as Star Mazda. But maybe Dan has thought of that and is working something out.

Time will tell.

[rickb99]

Thank you. I thought it was still 18 but wanted to here from some others....

Actually this whole 16 year old bit (INCLUDING the recent SCCA decision on 16 yr olds) is filled with risk.

At least here in Washington State (and probably others) it WON'T happen. People under the age of consent to sign a contract (18 here, nor their parents) can sign away their rights with a track/club Liability Waiver. Therefore, if a driver is under 18, regardless of who signs the waiver, the club, track is still liable for losses or injuries sustained.

This decision has already been adjudicated in the courts. Although the signed waivers are still used for some activities for kids, they will not hold up if it gets in to court.

Yes, we have kids racing Karts and midgets. But it's a SUPER high risk situation that car clubs have not been willing to take on here.

[nulrich]

It depends on your objectives and your budget, to some extent. I think F2000 is a perfect first step after karting. It is also a fairly easy adjustment if you've run a school series, although the cars are much more sophisticated and setup is crucial.

The F2000 Championship Series has the largest fields in open wheel racing in this country, and based on lap times and finish gaps is by far the most competitive. If racing in a close field of 30 to 40 cars appeals to you, and you want to learn from more experienced racers, teams and engineers, it would be the best choice. A full season can be done with a competitive team for under $100k.

The F2000 Championship Series is endorsed by USF1 as part of their driver development ladder, and I imagine you will hear more about that in 2010. The series also doesn't require you be 18 except at races they run in conjunction with IRL (Watkins Glen in 2009).

Personally, I'm looking forward to the F2000 Championship Series schedule for 2010, which will include most of the best tracks in the US, but I'm not interested in oval racing or street courses (except for Monaco).

And, if it matters to you, the atmosphere in the F2000 paddock is the best I've encountered in any race series, amateur or professional. The drivers get very competitive on track, but everyone is friendly and willing to help each other off track. I saw several occasions in 2009 where teams lent parts or help to their direct competitors to help them get back on track. Pretty unusual in my experience.

If you have a large budget, and learning about oval racing is important to you, then Dan Andersen's new series or Star Mazda would be a better choice. I'm told the new series will be around $250k for a season, and I believe Star Mazda is about twice that. Hard to predict the fields for 2010 for either series, but it would not be surprising to see only 10 or 12 car fields for the new series in its first year, especially given the expense and the state of the economy.

I've seen some negative comments about "club racers" and "masters" drivers on this forum, but in my opinion that is one of the strengths of the F2000 Championship Series. Although they may lack the reaction time and pure physical ability of younger drivers (and occasionally carry a few more pounds) some of the older drivers still have a lot they can teach a young developing driver. Just some facts from 2009:

The Masters champion, Tom Fatur, finished sixth overall in the points standings.

Older drivers won overall at Watkins Glen and Summit Point, and finished on the podium at six of the races.

The eventual champion, Chris Miller, was beaten by at least one masters driver at four of the races.

I'm not sure if masters drivers will do as well in 2010, I understand there are some new fast "young guns" joining, but we'll see!

Nathan Ulrich
Radon Sport LLC

[Bumpdraft]

Watkins Glen Int'l tried to keep 16 year old Victor Carbone out of the SCCA National the weekend after the IRL weekend. Victor took it to court and won and then ran his FC car in the FA class and finished 2nd and I believe it was on the F2k spec Hoosier tire and the F2k engine map.

Bumpdraft

[Christopera]

Looking at the populations of the Star Mazda and FBMW fields this year I have a hard time believing that this USF2000 series will really even take off.

Few are spending the kind of cash required to run in those events which are in conjunction with bigger events and feature faster cars. Why would anyone spend significantly more cash (comparatively to the F2000 Championship) to the run the same cars just at different events? The only advantage is my mind is supposed exposure. Otherwise, you will see less track time, longer event times (more days at the track), and crappier times on which you will use the tracks.

I did some work on a STAR Mazda team and the times we hit the track were atrocious. Operating costs sky rocketed due to the long length of events. More hotel was required, crews had to paid for longer periods, hotel prices skyrocket due to the size of the events and associated demand.

F2000 Championship has it right. Let's get track time, be competitive on the track, and have fun off-trakc. In two years my team's car will still be active/competitive/salable to both F2000 Championship competitors and SCCA competitors.

I'm not ready for the Dan Anderson foil hat and Kool-Aid.

[Bumpdraft]

F2000CS has released it's tentative schedule for next year. It's a really good schedule.

Bumpdraft

[doug rocco]

I'm not ready for the Dan Anderson foil hat and Kool-Aid.

Where do you think I can just get the hat?.....

[El Guapo]

I'm not ready for the Dan Anderson foil hat and Kool-Aid.

Where do you think I can just get the hat?.....

Go to http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

I use one at every race, and they really work.

Regards, EG

[problemchild]

You could wear it when accessing Apexspeed too

[Camadella]

Go to http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

The problem with THAT afdb is that it's not a SPEC afdb. The new series will require a SPEC afdb, which can only be purchased from a single supplier. Each afdb will have an embossed serial number which prevents forgery.

In addition, the optional propeller has a spec wing profile, and cannot be adjusted for pitch.

[captaineddie1975]

The problem with THAT afdb is that it's not a SPEC afdb. The new series will require a SPEC afdb, which can only be purchased from a single supplier. Each afdb will have an embossed serial number which prevents forgery.

In addition, the optional propeller has a spec wing profile, and cannot be adjusted for pitch.

Will the spec prop rules allow a climb prop (good for tracks with lots of tight corners) or a cruise prop (good at Road America, Watkins Glen etc)?

[Camadella]

Will the spec prop rules allow a climb prop (good for tracks with lots of tight corners) or a cruise prop (good at Road America, Watkins Glen etc)?

Oh, yes, of course, two different propeller profiles for the spec beanie will be available, but constant speed beanie propellers will not be allowed, as they would be moveable aerodynamic devices.

The beanie supplier may optionally make available (to select teams) the beanie propeller with deice boots.

[Bumpdraft]

Can I use a 5 bladed prop? Makes smoooooooth power!

Bumpdraft

[220mph]

Has the IRL lifted there age restriction?
Last I knew you could not compete at a IRL weekend if you were under 18!

I have been told by several reputable sources that the 18 issue is likely not going to be a problem

[mazda17]

Star Mazda will not race anywhere that drivers 16-17 can't race. With Star Mazda racing with Indycar some next year the tobacco issue must be resolved with Indycar.