Engine Longevity

[glenn cooper]

OK, a quick updateand a little refresh:
From the beginning I thought it possible to run a very full season (12 races inc test days) on 2 engines. My plan was to run one for 6 races, pull it out and see what it looked like, install new one and keep going/rotate out, get a handle on lifing the components as it were...

My first engine (A) which was brand new/zero miles w/ wet sump pan and went basically 2 weekends Rd Atl reg'l test and June sprints '08) and blew up.
This was later found to be self induced, due to reving to 13,300, basically using the rev limiter as a shift point, resulting in rod bolt stretch, and Kerblammo...

My second engine (B) was installed (dry sump/single scavenge/rear pickup) and I adopted a 12k shift point and occasionally revving to 12,500 or so. All good, this engine set lap records and won Nationals, and did 6 races. This engine then comes out and goes into the trailer as a backup until I can have it inspected/refreshed.

A freshie (C) goes in for this years June Sprints. My water temps were very high (230), as I need to get the hot weather running under control. This may involve sidepod mods, or possibly (probably) a bigger water cooler. Currently I am running one Van Diemen sized C&R Racing water rad. It is a 2 row, single pass rad. I have tested a Wizard Cooling 2 row dual pass as well, but it does not seem to offer any better cooling and maybe not quite as good. The core on this rad does not look quite as beefy as the C&R unit.

Directly after the Sprints, @ Mosport, THIS one race engine (C) eats a crankshaft, but does not blow up. My guess is that the long duration braking at Rd America, or possibly the long duration right hand carousel resulted in oil starvation and ultimately #2 rod bearing getting a beat down.

Out it comes and in goes the 6 race spare (B). It continues to run well, snaring pole and running under the lap record in the process. 2 weeks later this engine is yet again pressed into service at Watkins Glen, resulting in yert another pole/under lap record.

Half way into the race this almost 8 weekend $2500 engine began to show goofy oil pressure redaings, goofy like 9psi at 12k goofy! I figured it best to back out of it (Ya think?) and try to get a finish. Suddenly we are behind a safety car for several laps and the oil pressure redaings actually improve, going right back to 44 psi. I'm pretty certain the pressure sender was acting up.
This engine was pulled when I got back from WGI and the Sprints motor (C) w/ new crank put back in, this time going back to wet sump pan w/ Loshak front feeding oil pickup.
Meanwhile the 8 race engine (B), or as I'm now calling it "Ol' Faithful" has finally been opened up and it looks great! Fresh bearings/rings/rod bolts, n' a valve job should see it back in the trailer as a true spare/freshie ready to rumble.

We are damn near 1 season on a very affordable powerplant, in fact 8 races IS most folks (just not mine!) season.

Bottom line here so far looks like it's not going to be a problem doing a season on 2 engines at $2500/each, which of course includes the transmission. Add in whatever you feel is appropriate for engine prep and it's looking like we definitely have a handle on GSXR engine life, damn near FA lap times at an INCREDIBLY reduced dollar amount.


Now all we need is the economy to get better and we might just see more racers attracted to this class which was introduced at perhaps the worst time in history to introduce a new class!

GC

[Ivinsea]

Glenn,
Sounds very promising. The potential of cheap and hi-revving engines brought me to this class. Even with the risk of blow ups probably due to oil starvation, FB was more appealing to me than $6K rebuilds of a Pinto.

A few questions:

Is your current baseline oil system wet or dry sump?
What do you think of ebay engines vs new?
Approx how much did your top & bottom rebuild cost?
I believe the stock 08 GSXR rev limiter is 13,300. Is there a way to set it @ 12 or 12.5?

Thanks.

Ivin

[glenn cooper]

Currently running wet, trapdoorless pan w/ baffle plate, w/ Loshak front feeding oil pickup.
Not so in favor of Ebay, I like to see 'em myself, poke around, etc...
I ran a brand spankin' new engine as my first - it was 4k shipped to me. You'll have that much in a used one gone through, at least. Just pluckin' a used engine in does not seem to be the hot ticket, although I have done so and it worked! I say have it gone through before hand... cheap-ish insurance.
For engine rebuild costs I would direct you to my guy. PM me if wanted.
I don't believe there is a way to reset the factory rev limit, which I believe is spark related. I don't rely on a rev limiter (anymore!), just shift accordingly, either by feel if in traffic, or glance at tach if running solo.
My thoughts are that there is a TON of information that is available to your brain and a great deal of this info comes right from the viscinity of your butt. Use it!

Drove that beauty new car yet?

GC

[Ivinsea]

Drove that beauty new car yet?

GC

I haven't driven it or even seen it, hell, it hasn't even shipped yet!

Due to various delays, we missed an Intercity pool truck (they batch up a whole truckload of cars - I think 6 cars per load), and no trucks are scheduled for 2 more weeks.

I called Fed Ex auto transport and they have the same schedule - approx 2 weeks to pick up and 10-14 days to drop off. Expedited transport was $6600, so I am just going to have to wait. Unfortunately I am going to miss the end of the 2009 season, but what can you do.......

[Ivinsea]

Currently running wet, trapdoorless pan w/ baffle plate, w/ Loshak front feeding oil pickup.

Glenn,
Do you consider the Loshak mod (or Phoenix etc) mandatory?
Did you see OP dipping with your stock wet sump?

One final (for now!) question, what are good sources for new engines? My local Suzuki dealer looked at me like I had three eyes when I asked about buying new engines.

Thanks in advance.

Ivin

[RobLav]

My $1200 Ebay special 450 mile 06R1 Yamaha ran flawlessly all last season, and I intend to run it again all next season. 13K was my max revs. Yes, it's down on power compared to the 07-09 Suzukis...

one more season with focus on chassis and driver development and then a new engine.

[Richard Dziak]

OK guys.......

New zero mile 2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000 prepped by George Dean, installed in the new Phoenix F1K.07 F1000 delivered September 2007. Built by and designed by Dustin Wright and Matt Conrad of Phoenix Race Works, LLC. Phoenix, Arizona.

20 competitive races..........20 practices...........20 qualifing sessions...all races evidenced on my personal racing website...www.formularacingltd.com. Many of you have already visited the site. I keep a blog on all events and happenings with the F1000 on the website.

12 Open track days.........1800 + miles.....as evidenced by the Aim dash as of this past week.

Engine runs flawlessly.......Amsoil products used exclusively....changed after each race weekend. 4 3/4 quarts added each time, filled over the window oil level when running. New NASCAR WIX oil filters changed with each oil change. Never any oveflow of oil or water into backup overflow bottles.

Regional races only, engine NEVER pushed to the limits....Rev Limiter set at 12,000 RPM's. Aim dash has shift indicator lights for shifting.

Car was completely checked by Dustin Wright at Phoenix Race Works in Feb 2009.

Perhaps I am lucky but I strongly feel the more these little engines are pushed to extreme conditions they have a high probability of breaking. Each owner/driver needs to determine at what level they are willing to push the limits of these 1000cc engines. Each driver needs to evaluate at what level of racing they want to be in. Highly national competitive drivers who want to have the National podium finishes IMO will have much more costs to run their cars, There is no doubt in my mind that there is a high cost to the car owner, to be the best of the best in this class. There will always be the owner/driver who wants to be #1. #2, or #3. There is a high cost to pay for that honor, and there is no economic rewards at this amatuer level of racing. It's strictly bragging rights only for all of us.

I have throughly enjoyed the class, running regional SCCA events, have enjoyed the open track days, and have spent zero dollars for any type of major repair. I also have raced this car with other NON-SCCA racing organizations. My enjoyment is what I want with the class. I am totally satisified to be on the track in a competitive atmosphere whether I win or not. I am out to have fun, and feel very honored and humbled to be able to even own one of these beautiful formula race cars, let alone drive it.

Amsoil sponsors the car with all lubricants, and has been a fanstastic company to work with. I highly recommend their products to all F1000 owners.

Why my engiine has performed so well as compared to others, I can't say. But I will attest, the car has been a blast to drive. It's fast.... very fast, well beyond my own personal limits. The Phoenix F1000 turns heads at all tracks, draws lots of racers and spectators. It sounds great, and has been extremely inexpensive to run and maintain. The car is expertly maintained by myself.

This is what the F1000 class was all about. For me personally, that ethic of high speed, high performance racing has worked well for me. However, there may be a time when I make a post to the contrary.

F1000 has proven to myself, everything that has been written up about the class. I am sure that many owner/drivers can enjoy the class for many years to come at affordable economic levels. I will also attest, that I am so happy that I employed professionals like Phoenix Race Works to design and build the car. I strongly feel that even though the car may have cost more than building my own, or converting, the flawless running of the car, has made up for the cost savings that I have experienced.

I was told when young, the most expensive, is the cheapest in the long run. I have no regrets having spent the $42,500 and delivered to my door .....that was a steal! The car looks as good as when delivered, actually better, due to my graphics and New Mexico the me. No headaches over repairs, no endless nights in the garage building and making changes to the car. I just walk out and look it. I spend two weekends going over the car throughly before any race event weekend.

This is a great class, and I am a testimonial for the class that there is and can be huge cost savings for owning/driving a Formula F1000 race car.

Thanks again Phoenix Race Works for an outstanding quality build.

Any viewer here on ApexSpeed considering owning and driving a formula open wheel race car should look very hard at this class. It is totally awesome.

The engines can last, just don't beat them to extremes.

[glenn cooper]

Yeah, The "Loshak Mod" front pickup appears to be a very good improvement over the stock rear oil pickup.
I'd call it mandatory.

I can't tell you much about dips as the data is not hooked up.

I don't have a stock wet sump, rather a billet flat/wet pan.
You'll not find complete engine assemblies at the dealer. There are private breakers that dismantle new bikes and sell the components. Mine was purchased from a guy ou of Vegas IIRC. I can dig for the contact info.

GC