enough of the chat.....who of you is ready

[Bill Steele]

The range in what people spend for their racing is wider than the HP spread among Kents on any grid. I admire the guy that does everything on a budget and still runs up front. I also admire the guy who loves his race car so much he showers it with every expensive bit and trick part. The only people I don't admire are the people who never run up front and rationalize it to someone else's budget.

At a recent race, I was talking to one of our younger local drivers who took his car to the Runoff's a few years ago and got a podium finish his first time. He works in a prep shop and doesn't make investment banker kinds of money. He is still paying off his debts from his Runoffs experience. Is he going back? You bet, just as soon as he has his debts paid off from last time!

How much is the kid above willing to spend to test himself against the best, well, everything and more. Big difference between that passion and the guy who is trying to decide whether a certain investment in his car will be retained when he sells it. One is a racer, the other is a hobbyist.

The good news is there is room for both racers and hobbyists in club racing.

[Matt King]

So where does the guy who spends a million bucks to run mid-pack fit in?

[Bill Steele]

So where does the guy who spends a million bucks to run mid-pack fit in?

Ha!

It's all good, the economy isn't out of the woods yet, we need all the stimulus we can get.

[farrout]

If running regionals with older equipment that I can afford means that I am a hobbyist, then so be it. That means that I somewhat accept my limitations. It does not mean that I am just motoring around the track and not trying to get faster. Getting faster is mostly found within driver improvement not by 5 more HP. But I also would rather finish in one piece than attempt the dare devil pass that results in a SNAFU.

I have been running an older DSR in Regionals. Had some great races against newer equipment and love to run against the FB, FM, FE, FS. A good battle finishing second is better than being 1 of 1. Fully realize that I do not have the 80-90K it would take to to be competitive nationally in DSR.

Now looking to experience FF since there is more competition Regionally and maybe Nationally.

There is room for both the hobbyist and those who will sacrifice anything for their passion. I only wish I could have done this 40 years ago before family, job, wife, kids, TDY.

[Roland V. Johnson]

Bill, what you are ignoring is that you are creating a new class. Formula Honda If that's what people want then go ahead. Leave FF alone. If you think that one of the FIT engines is going to cost a lot less to prepare as a front line engine, I gotta bridge I want to sell. If someone just wants to run around at the back with less than competetive power you can do that today. Just run the engine at 4500 RPM and no problems mate! Let me know what it really costs to install the FIT, and just how long the thing really lasts when you start to run it hard. I just don't care to see Honda come in and take over a stable class that I have supported for 30 years. (How many cars were at the 40th?) I still havn't heard from Doug. I offered him a $7500 low time Ivey, I just guess he was waiting for that $12000 FIT. Gotta go, got a FF race at Willow Springs this weekend, the week after a FF race at Coronado.

[Bill Steele]

Bill, what you are ignoring is that you are creating a new class. Formula Honda If that's what people want then go ahead. Leave FF alone. If you think that one of the FIT engines is going to cost a lot less to prepare as a front line engine, I gotta bridge I want to sell. If someone just wants to run around at the back with less than competetive power you can do that today. Just run the engine at 4500 RPM and no problems mate! Let me know what it really costs to install the FIT, and just how long the thing really lasts when you start to run it hard. I just don't care to see Honda come in and take over a stable class that I have supported for 30 years. (How many cars were at the 40th?) I still havn't heard from Doug. I offered him a $7500 low time Ivey, I just guess he was waiting for that $12000 FIT. Gotta go, got a FF race at Willow Springs this weekend, the week after a FF race at Coronado.

Roland, I am not ignoring anything. We have different opinions about what Formula Ford might look like when all is said and done on this subject. Your engine at $7500 was also a really good deal; in fact, I almost bought it myself there, but it was gone too fast. I know it is getting put to good use in AZ though.

Based on the thread I just read about the Runoffs letter, maybe the HPD proposal is in jeopardy. If it doesn't get approved, it is my opinion SCCA will have missed its last best chance for FF.

If the Fit proposal doesn't get approved, will I quit racing? No, I did that once when I was disappointed about a rule change and it was the biggest mistake I have made in my adult life. Come to think of it, if that is my biggest mistake, I have been a pretty lucky guy.

Good luck at Willow!

[Roland V. Johnson]

Bill, I think it is the allure of the new mistress that many are feeling. I do believe that Formula Ford should continue as it's own class. It has been in extistance for 40 years here in the United States. Everything to build one of these engines is out there. I believe there was a heck of a lot more than the top 10% of National drivers at the Run-Off's. I am guessing, but I bet there was closer to 35% of all active National Drivers. I thought the petition that came from many of them was a well reasoned document. Formula Ford is still a viable National, Regional, and Vintage Class. Much more viable and active than most SCCA and Vintage Classes. The number of entries may be down, but they are in almost every Class. If people want Formula Honda, start that class, leave mine alone! Do you think FH will survive 40 years?

[dc]

I still havn't heard from Doug. I offered him a $7500 low time Ivey, I just guess he was waiting for that $12000 FIT.

For the record, $7500 for a regional racer returning to a car needing track time, was almost DOUBLE of what I had set aside for an engine purchase. Beside the obvious fact that I had already decided to sell the car and had it advertised for sale in multiple places, because I wouldn't be able to put an engine in my DB1 for what I was prepared to pay. Pretty simple, really.

[PCalhoun]

For the record, $7500 for a regional racer returning to a car needing track time, was almost DOUBLE of what I had set aside for an engine purchase.

Doug,
For months I have been wondering what you deemed an acceptable price for an engine to complete your car. Had I known $3750 was the "target price" I never would have recomended the car you ultimately purchased, esspecially knowing a DB1 pan is about $1k.

A useable Kent motor, that isn't tired and in need of a rebuild, hasn't been at that price point in over a decade.

[Greg Mercurio]

Doug: That's truly demented. $3750 might buy you a no-name homebuilt POS. I have one if you 're interested. Homework is everything.

The new girl in school is always exciting and desirable until you find out that she has bad breath and her six older brothers are S.E.A.L.S.

[TimW]

Doug,
For months I have been wondering what you deemed an acceptable price for an engine to complete your car. Had I known $3750 was the "target price" I never would have recomended the car you ultimately purchased, esspecially knowing a DB1 pan is about $1k.

A useable Kent motor, that isn't tired and in need of a rebuild, hasn't been at that price point in over a decade.

actually, when I bought mine in 2004, that was pretty typical. I paid a bit more because it had an actual swift pan that I needed. But by no means did I get a killer deal; it was a fair price for the market at the time. Also at that time Charlie Williams suggested that if I could not find one used he'd be willing to assemble one from his shelves of parts for about $7500 with an iron head, $2k more for ally. The price has honestly gone up since 2004. Partly due to the cost of better components now (mine does not have steel crank and did not have forged pistons) but also due to the hoarding as stated in this thread.

[dc]

Based on the information I had at the time, ~$4000-4500 was a reasonable Regional motor without a lot of time on it. At the time, having seen new Elite FC Pintos selling for less than that and the used Kents on the board selling for well under $6k, I had no reason to believe otherwise. There were also a few factors this year that moved the price point up higher than I had anticipated. And I had a DB1 pan, too—I was figuring that number without the pan.

Like I said before, had I known then what I know now... I would have bought a turnkey Club Ford, or a Formula First right from the get-go.