Need Help: Looking to buy 1979 or older FSV

[jjjj3981]

I am thinking about buying an older FSV to run in vintage events and wondered how difficult it is to take care of the engine and transmission compared to some of the other formulas. I remember back in the 80's it seems like at lot of the water coooled engines were blown to peices, so I am a little leary of them. Also, I would not be interested in the earlier non-wing cars. Also, I have many questions about air cooled vs. water cooled as far as up-keep and realiability is concerned. The prices vary quite a bit, but for vintage I thought it would be a good choice. Thanks in advance for your help and input.

[horizon]

I have a little time with the water cooled engines. The 2 engines I was involved with both had 175hp (1600cc) on webers. the revs are keeped @ 7k max and there have been no issues. I understand problems arise with cam shaft/v-springs/buckets. Use the best parts you can and keep the rpm to a reasonable limit. Bertils does or "used" to build these engine with a lot of succuss. I've heard that these engines are "good" for 200hp @ 9 plus K but for how long I don't know.........but the prize money is the same in vintage no matter were you finish ;0)

[jjjj3981]

Thanks horizon for your help. Under-shifting would not be a problem. One of the cars I'm looking at has a Bertils with Webers. I don't want a car that I have to get the engine gone through a couple of times a year, but I don't want to run a FF either. In my area for 2009 there were only 6 vintage races with 7 being the norm for 2008 and 2007. At this rate, and only shifting at 7000, I would think I could go a while without a re-build. After hearing what you have to say about the water cooled engines, I think they would be the better way to go because the air cooled would have to run at 100% to put out 175 hp were the WC would only be at say 75-80% at 175 hp. Thanks again

[Stan Clayton]

Jim, I have a 1.8L water-cooled Bertils SV engine in my CSR. I shift at 7000 and run out top gear to no more than 7500 per Bertil's telephone instructions. After about 12 hours the engine is noticeably down on power, but I think that should cover you for a season. BTW, Bertil has sold the business and retired. Good luck! Stan

[Jim Gustafson]

Steve Knapp at Elite Engines told me he will service watercooled SV engines when things slow down during the winter months. Bertil told me he sold some of his inventory to Steve. I ran a March and later a Ralt for ten years. The engines were pretty reliable and I used to twist them to about 8200. I still have my March 83V that I'm prepping to sell.

Jim Gustafson

[jjjj3981]

Jim Gustafson,
Thanks for the reply! What do you mean by "pretty reliable"? What kind of things would you do during a season for upkeep of the engine? Where there problem areas that need to be watched?
Thanks....Jay

[Jim Gustafson]

We just changed the oil.... honest. We did go thru a period where the flywheel bolts kept shearing. Bertil changed to the larger bolts used in his Toyota Atlantic engines and we never had a problem again. When the rules allowed, we went to the 1.8 and were seeing 210 hp, and the Mark 8/9 gearbox handled that with no problem. It was great fun racing our old RT-5 against the true FA's and giving them fits. We finished 5th in the '03 June Sprints, in a large field of Atlantics. I think Rennie Clayton won that year.

Jim Gustafson

[revtom]

I too have been running a water-cooled SV for the past 13 years in vintage. With reasonable comp ratio's, (in my case, 12 1/2 -1) the only issue I'v had is with older rods breaking. My motor's run the "spec" SV cam profile, witch came from the early 80's i believe, and makes power over a decent 4500 to 8500 rpm band. I shift at 8K, and will run to 8300 into a corner. Bearing life seems at least 10 to 12 hr's before beginning to show color, and I can run a seven weekend season without fear between basic rebuilds. My future seasons will probably be five weekends, and I think she will go two summer's between tear-downs. The cam / bucket issuue was mostly solved when the larger than stock Alfa buckets of 35 and 37mm are used. I have buddies running injection, both Fluglfisher, and Lucas, with great results, but IMO carbs are more user friendly for someone who wants a car that will always happily start up and run reasonably well. The SV's are fun cars to run, are quite fast, and don't cost much more to run that a FF. Tom

[Ikeda]

We have a number of watercooled supervees running up here in the Northwest. I completed a rebuild of an 84 Anson SA4 earlier this year. This included a new engine I put together. I would not skimp on rods as the big end on the stock rod is prone to failure in a big way if overeved. I used Carillo rods. I have a friend using Scat rods with great succes. Make sure you have a head with the larger cam followers as mentioned in an earlier post and keep the valves asjusted. As far as induction goes I run Lucas mechanical injection and the other cars are carburated and electronically injected. All work well when adjusted and I would run what ever came on the car you buy. Have you looked at the ground effects cars from the 80's? Most vintage organizations allow them to run and they can be competitive in Regional SCCA Forrmula Atlantic groups.

Regarding revs, I shift between and 7500 and 8000 and should get two seasons (8 race weekends) out of the bottom end. I will refresh the head each season.

Tim Bland

[jjjj3981]

Thanks to all of you for your help.
I looked at a 1978 Zink Z14 this weekend. It was in excellent condition with fresh water cooled Bertils engine.
Anyone have any experence with the air cooled engines? Are they able to put out the same amount of HP? Any realiability issues with the air cooled engines?

[revtom]

I'l let a current air-cooled guy fill you in, but before my water-cooled years, I ran a 1700 in a '75 Tui. The big issue with the air cooled engines was oiling issues. In the day, the engines were twisted so high on revs, that the case halves squirmed, and bearing life was minimal. With current Monoposto rules, you can run a 2.0L engine, which will match the water-cooled on power, and need not be reved to death. The earlier air colled cars tend to weigh a little less, and if built for reasonal rev range, will be a fun package. When I ran the Tui, there were usually one or two other air-colled cars with me, and it got to where I could recognize the sound of a spun rod bearing all the way across the paddock; hense my finding a water-cooled car that I'v been very happy with. I plan on running my car till I'm too stiff and old to get in and out without help: they are great cars! Tom