Honda. What if ?

[Larry]

You want the friggin' MEMBERS to do some real work--come up with substantive comments? Hey, it's just not fair to expect so much. It's a lot easier to kvetch about 40 years of history, impossible parity, diminished value of current asset, death/rebirth of the class...and now you're saying you want some SUBSTANCE?

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Daryl DeArman]

If any changes are made from what was presented for input, shouldn't those changes be made public before being presented to the BoD?

Now that is just nuts

[R. Pare]

I get that a lot!

[Michael Rand]

Related to, but on a different branch, from the previous 4 pages, I have what appears to be an obvious proposal, at least to me.
That being, the Fit motor should not be allowed in any regions Club Ford classes for an undetermined period of time, but certainly multiple years.
This initiative, keeping CF Kent only, needs to come from the rank and file, the drivers directly impacted.
I am prepared to present this concept to the NARRC Rules Committee if there is agreement within the NARRC NCF community.
Not that there are all that many CF eligible cars likely to do the conversion anyway, but why not address the issue before it comes up ?

[Bill Steele]

Related to, but on a different branch, from the previous 4 pages, I have what appears to be an obvious proposal, at least to me.
That being, the Fit motor should not be allowed in any regions Club Ford classes for an undetermined period of time, but certainly multiple years.
This initiative, keeping CF Kent only, needs to come from the rank and file, the drivers directly impacted.
I am prepared to present this concept to the NARRC Rules Committee if there is agreement within the NARRC NCF community.
Not that there are all that many CF eligible cars likely to do the conversion anyway, but why not address the issue before it comes up ?

I totally disagree, I run CF here in SF region, we have had 4 blown engines from regular competitors in the last 18 months (all pro built motors), in one case the competitor had to bow out and sold his car. I would love the option of going through the teething process and get to a place where guys could run 4-5 seasons between engine swaps.

Having said that, looking at the "architecture" of the Fit, I think you may be right that few might choose this route. I just think it would be good to have that option.

[Michael Rand]

Fair enough Bill, the thought of a Fit motor in, say, a Crossle 30F [which I have one of in the garage] looks difficult, to say the least. How about a Lola T340 series ? A Zink Z-10 ? A Van Diemen RF78-9-80-81 ?
Of course, with enough time and money you can put an airplane motor in a submarine,
can't you ?
My thought was simply an attempt to satisfy the no-change-is-good-change guys from the bring-it-on gang.
And the CF gang up here in the Northeast is highly unlikely to spend the dollars anyway.....
I guess CF in the SF Region is inhabited by a differnet group of competitors than out here ?

[DanW]

I guess CF in the SF Region is inhabited by a differnet group of competitors than out here ?

Mike,
Could you define "different"?

To clarify, some of us have had repeat kent problems, some self induced.

[Bill Steele]

Fair enough Bill, the thought of a Fit motor in, say, a Crossle 30F [which I have one of in the garage] looks difficult, to say the least. How about a Lola T340 series ? A Zink Z-10 ? A Van Diemen RF78-9-80-81 ?
Of course, with enough time and money you can put an airplane motor in a submarine,
can't you ?
My thought was simply an attempt to satisfy the no-change-is-good-change guys from the bring-it-on gang.
And the CF gang up here in the Northeast is highly unlikely to spend the dollars anyway.....
I guess CF in the SF Region is inhabited by a differnet group of competitors than out here ?

Michael, I think there is always massive resistance to change in every class. I think that is why we have so many classes in SCCA and why so many classes are glorified track days for their participants.

A few years ago a couple of the SF region guys contemplated trying a Miata in a Crossle as an alternative to the Kent. Being a local class the thought was we could control the rules and maybe get a lower cost alternative to the Kent going. After totaling my bills from the last few rebuild cycles, I got really excited about the Miata idea these guys were planning (basically a Zetec like solution for Fords) and went around trying to gen up some support. Only a few CF competitors were interested at all, most were adamant against it.

Out here, we run a lot of races each season, typically 11 per season, so any testing on top of that results in a lot of miles on the car each year. Recently, we have had a run of bad luck in the region with regard to Kent motors and I would say the consensus has changed a great deal from those Miata discussion times. Guys are really tired of the perceived fragility of the Kent, waiting for the big boom (something that probably happens a lot less than our recent average might suggest, but when it happens it is a big bill, a big hassle and an inevitable missed race or two).

Again, I agree with you that most may elect to stay with their Kent power, even if the Fit is allowed. If the Fit does to Kent residual values, what the Zetec did to the 2L Pinto's, maybe the cost reduction objective will have been met, regardless of local CF rules.

[Michael Rand]

Different ?
Well, different from the Northeast, maybe guys spending more dollars and taking it really really seriously ?
Certainly that was evident at the 40th under the Porter Racing tent......
Or, it might be a function of my own age, Social Security kicks in in October.
I always take it seriously when the visor goes down, the rest is a party, my golf game [which I have never played, and don't ever expect to play...] if that makes sense.
Or maybe it is after starting in open wheel cars in 1968 and running continuously ever since, with a National Championship in FC at Road Atlanta in 1970, yeah, I peaked early ! it just doesn't have the same intensity it had a few decades ago ?

[rickjohnson356]

.... And the CF gang up here in the Northeast is highly unlikely to spend the dollars anyway.....

If that is the case, and it appears to be true throughout this web community, then there is nothing for the Kent-oriented CF members to be afraid of.

So why not allow the optional engine? If no one chooses the option, then there is no problem.

I believe this point was made in one or two previous posts as well.

[R. Pare]

As CF rules are up to the region, it will be up to the CF competitors to decide whether or not the Fit would be allowed.

Even if it is in certain regions, I somehow doubt that you will see very many of them for quite a while - the conversion cost is more than the average CF owner can afford for the most part, and with the engine at a disadvantage to the Kent, there will certainly be no performance advantage making it a 'must have" item.

Whether or not the maintenance advantage gets guys to change is pretty hard to predict.

[DanW]

The economics for Fit conversion in CF are pretty tough.

$12K conversion cost is at least close to the value of a well prepared and competitive complete club ford here in SFR. As was pointed out earlier in another thread, its a big sunk cost.

As far as being "different", there is some truth to that. The driver at the pointy end of the SFR CF grid doesn't change ratios amongst the three tracks in the region and practically runs his tires to the cords. Many behind him spend quite a bit in fresh tires to keep up.

[Ananth K]

Effective 3/1/10, modify 9.1.1.D as follows to allow the use of the Honda Fit 1500 engine in Formula Ford

Sweet, waiting for the BOD's approval now!