"rocket fuel" at the 40th

[glenn cooper]

So, There was a pretty big hullabaloo leading up to the race weekend.
How'd THAT whole thing end up?
GC

[formulasuper]

So, There was a pretty big hullabaloo leading up to the race weekend.
How'd THAT whole thing end up?
GC

Hey Bud, I didn't smell any in the vintage group. Ah, how close ya gotta be?

[dc]

It was there. It was used. Glad it won't be in 2010.

[Garey Guzman]

Sad to say that there was a group from my home state of California that smelled bad.

I think I finished ahead of all of them in the National - maybe the rocket fuel doesn't work in the wet?

[TNGMOTORSPORTS]

Elliott Said He could smell it in the vintage group, but AVGAS was good enough for the WIN in the rain on sunday!!

Jerry Lampkin
Lola 340
CFF/FF70 168

[Bill Bonow]

Well, it wasn't morning napalm in the air and if it smelled like victory, victory skinks

It was widely talked about that a particular group of "left coasters" were using that crap. Funny part is, it didn't seem to help them very much

[Bill Steele]

Aren't the compounds that make up the "hot gas" like C44 on the SCCA banned list?

[crossle27]

I definitely smelled 3 or 4 cars, at least, during the week-end, including a few that passed by on their way to the front of pre-grid for the group 4 race on Sunday. Our fastest man from the NW took 4th in CF with AV gas, and he is a true gentelmen for doing that. Jessen is the name, and being fast is truly his game.
I'm sure he would have won with the 'happy fuel' but to his credit he didn't use it. Those who did should be ashamed...

[SteveG]

So, There was a pretty big hullabaloo leading up to the race weekend.
How'd THAT whole thing end up?
GC

The theme of the original "hullaballo" was to name names.

So, name the names...

Don't be implying some "left coast guys" broke the sacred trust.

Put up or shut up...

[stonebridge20]

I definitely smelled 3 or 4 cars, at least, during the week-end, including a few that passed by on their way to the front of pre-grid for the group 4 race on Sunday. Our fastest man from the NW took 4th in CF with AV gas, and he is a true gentelmen for doing that. Jessen is the name, and being fast is truly his game.
I'm sure he would have won with the 'happy fuel' but to his credit he didn't use it. Those who did should be ashamed...

Treadway who um, ah, well,...crossed the line ahead of everybody else was on C12 in the group 4 race if it matters.

[Allen_W]

I smelled it on the grid at times. Don't have the faintest idea who. Never smelled it before. With so many cars, I wouldn't know which. By the way in the paddock, it was discussed and said to be legal. Prices were cited. And not figuring to be in the money, I didn't give it a thought at the prices mentioned. So I have 2 questions: is it legal? Does it give an advantage?

The theme of the original "hullaballo" was to name names.

So, name the names...

Don't be implying some "left coast guys" broke the sacred trust.

Put up or shut up...

[Brad Ellingson]

So I have 2 questions: is it legal? Does it give an advantage?

The answer is yes to both. I am certain that the prize money we get justifies the cost though...

[andyllc]

Nobody at the front of the Club Ford field ran the rocket fuel so I was happy about that.

[glenn cooper]

Does it allow the production of more horsepower? Yes - advantage.
Can the cars that are fed this crap be beat? Yes. Ummm, advantage?
Is it legal? Yes - until 12-31-09 (I believe).
GC

[andyllc]

Treadway who um, ah, well,...crossed the line ahead of everybody else was on C12 in the group 4 race if it matters.

Now I am confused. Is C12 the same as the C44 stuff or what is C12?

I know we ran track gas all weekend and just about had the pole and ran up front all weekend.

We had Sandy from Quicksilver smell our stuff as well so we could have an independent person verify that for us as an unbiased reference.

[Keith Carter]

I'm sure someone would be able to add more to this, but C12 is not close to C44. C12 is more of a standard racing fuel like you would buy from the pump at your local track, it's just a more consistent option than track fuel.

[Joefisherff]

In every Porter car including his that overheated....

[Bill Bonow]

So, name the names...

I can't do that, I have No Proof

[sauce_racer]

I could smell C44 everywhere on Sunday when I was on the grid for group 6.

[cooleyjb]

Come on guys. The stuff is legal. There was never an official gentleman's agreeement that everyone agreed to.

I'll never burn the stuff unless genuine money (pro racing) is on the line and it's legal. I'll never think less of someone who uses something that is legal.

It's not one bit diffferent than the guy spending 2500 bucks on the whiz bang wheels, 12000 bucks on the little bit extra from the engine builder, or using sticker tires vs. take-offs.

Heckling, calling people out, publicly berating someone for doing something fully within the rules of the GCR is poor sportsmanship in my opinion.

[Matt King]

You make good points, but I think the reason the rocket fuel is thought of differently is because it's so noxious to other competitors. I can't smell your $10,000 shocks and they won't make anyone's eyes water (until they get the invoice!). But then again, it's SCCA's responsibility to police this stuff if it really is a hazard to others.

[Bill Steele]

So I read the above and was a little puzzled as I knew Neil Porter would never cheat, but of course take every legal advantage he could get.

Having assumed the hot gas had illegal compounds I was really puzzled when I read someone calling Neil's cars out as using illegal gas.

So I just called Neil and asked what the story was. I said, "did you guys use hot gas?" He said, "yes". I said, "I thought that stuff had banned compounds". He said, "no, we had it tested, it is legal." I said, "was it C44?" he said, "no".

I then asked how much he spent on gas and he said it cost him $77 per car per race extra to run what he ran over regular 110 race gas (he said he only ran it in qualifying and races, no testing or practice). I believe Neil thinks there might be some advantage to the gas he ran, but I also don't think he thinks it is is major factor to lap times.

As far as the notion that his gas had anything to do with a car overheating, I think he thought that was pretty funny.

[cooleyjb]

You make good points, but I think the reason the rocket fuel is thought of differently is because it's so noxious to other competitors. I can't smell your $10,000 shocks and they won't make anyone's eyes water (until they get the invoice!). But then again, it's SCCA's responsibility to police this stuff if it really is a hazard to others.

Rocket fuel is thought differently because it's a low hanging fruit for people to complain about. The noxious part of the argument is almost always secondary to the people complaining about the extra power the car is making that is running the fuel.

Why not complain about AvGas too, which while it's 100 Low Lead is far from low in lead. Lead is a hazard to others but we still can run it.

[Matt King]

Rocket fuel is thought differently because it's a low hanging fruit for people to complain about. The noxious part of the argument is almost always secondary to the people complaining about the extra power the car is making that is running the fuel.

Well, then that's stupid, because if the trick gas really does make the car go faster, it's one of the cheapest and easiest options out there--as long as it's legal.

[cooleyjb]

Well, then that's stupid, because if the trick gas really does make the car go faster, it's one of the cheapest and easiest options out there--as long as it's legal.

In the Spec Racer Ford world I've seen the marked difference that the fuel can make on speed.

Don't get me wrong. I'm happy that the stuff is going to the list of illegal at the end of the year. But until then, I have no problem with people who run the stuff. I do have a small issue with people who want to string people up who are doing something that is completely legal.

[Bill Bonow]

Joe,

Had to read through this thread to make sure, but I could not find any reference "to string people up". I also did not find any of these items contained in this thread as well: "heckling, calling people out, publicly berating someone".

The event is over and someone (Coop) asked if anyone was "using". The answer is yes.

[Rodney Jessen]

So I come home to Seattle all stoked to race the next weekend after the 40th spending money I dont have. On the way to pregrid the overflow hose comes of my tank and I feel a wet burning sensation on my back. At the time I didnt know why so I go out and race. During the race I am in so much discomfort I keep radioing to come in but since I am winning everyone thinks I should just tough it out. After all there is a 10 dollar trophy on the line that can double as a clock!
By the time I roll the scales I am in some much pain I cant see straight, I rip off my cloths exposing things that are rarely seen in the paddock and dump water down my back and but only to fire off a second round of burning pain. I could not leave the race trailer for over and hour ended up in the Emergency room two days later and have 2nd degree chemical burns on my back and butt with the outer layers of skin falling off.
Can you imagine what would happen with C44. New rule if I feel gas on my back again I am done. I will gladly forfeit the clock trophy combo.

P.S. I gave the clock trophy to a friend that came to watch me race. I later find out that same evening he gave it to a date from match dot com that was a bust. So there is some serial female match dater running around Seattle with the famed clock trophy that I lost my skin for. I miss the Sienfeild show.

[R. Pare]

You sure your last name isn't Dangerfield?

"I don't get no respect"

[Keith Carter]

P.S. I gave the clock trophy to a friend that came to watch me race. I later find out that same evening he gave it to a date from match dot com that was a bust. So there is some serial female match dater running around Seattle with the famed clock trophy that I lost my skin for. I miss the Sienfeild show.

I'm sorry to hear of your injuries, but I couldn't help but to laugh at this...

[crossle27]

Being Assistant race chair last week-end I was dispatched to Rodney's trailer, only to find a naked man in a lot of discomfort. He says to me, "my ass in on fire", so I handed the ointment to his crew chief and said, you're on your own brother!"
Like we said Rod, the best treatment for a fuel burn is water, and lots of it. Your lap times were amazing considering that much pain, and I hope you're feeling better.

Wes

[crossle27]

BTW, the 'happy fuel' that some our drivers used here in the NW a few years ago was worth 2 seconds a lap at Pacific Raceways (the old SIR), and our track is half the length of RA. It is hard on engines too from what I've been told, so why would anyone use it to win a cheap little trophy? Over blown egos I guess would be the answer to that one.
BTW Joe, 50 odd bucks a gallon as opposed to 4 bucks for AV gas doesn't sound like a cheap way to go faster to me. I find it hard to believe that SCCA did not shut this BS down a long time ago like we did out here when our eyes were burning and the front of the field was suddenly way faster.
It may be legal right now, but it's not right...

The week-end was magical for me, and the track is magnificent! I'd go back tomorrow if I weren't 2000 miles away. It was tough racing, but for the most part very fair. Very close, but fair.

[glenn cooper]

Sorry to hear about your burn, though you went all H.S. Thompson in the telling - Good one!

Same thing happened to the Jason _______, DSR winner at WGI last month. He was directly in front of me on the pregrid and Critter was pouring water down the inside of his suit. He had burn damage as well.

I'm not so sure any of the rocket fuel woulda burned your skin any worse or less actually.

As for your Match.com buddy - He prolly' had a bet with a buddy and was trying to weasle his way out of it - "Dude I told you I was gonna give her some clock before the night was over, and I damn sure did, and she liked it"! type deal...

I'm with Matt King's initial post. Not peeved at the performance issue, just the nausea/eye watering/health issue of the hot fuel. In my book it's akin to my neighbor purposefully walking his dog two houses down the street to my yard to have the thing drop a load and not pick it up! I mean, c'mon... More than a little rude.
Wait - The dog scenario above is illegal (at least in my town, you are required to bag it), and the fuel issue is clearly not. Hmmm, They both do however smell real bad!

Cheers, GC

[Allen_W]

Excellent post. The weekend was magical. So many plots and story lines. I wouldn't use the C44, even understanding that it's legal, because it would mess up my ability to understand whether I am improving or not. But it doesn't matter to me if other racers used it--except the noxious smell, yuck--because (see above) the weekend was magical. You just found your place among all the crazies and ran your race with them. Whatever your pace, you had a ton of cars to run with . . . and they stretched the whole length of RA. How cool is that.

BTW, the 'happy fuel' that some our drivers used here in the NW a few years ago was worth 2 seconds a lap at Pacific Raceways (the old SIR), and our track is half the length of RA. It is hard on engines too from what I've been told, so why would anyone use it to win a cheap little trophy? Over blown egos I guess would be the answer to that one.
BTW Joe, 50 odd bucks a gallon as opposed to 4 bucks for AV gas doesn't sound like a cheap way to go faster to me. I find it hard to believe that SCCA did not shut this BS down a long time ago like we did out here when our eyes were burning and the front of the field was suddenly way faster.
It may be legal right now, but it's not right...

The week-end was magical for me, and the track is magnificent! I'd go back tomorrow if I weren't 2000 miles away. It was tough racing, but for the most part very fair. Very close, but fair.

[crossle27]

It just doesn't get any cooler Allen, and I think we should have a 41st reunion back at RA as well as a 42nd and so on!
I took me until the last 4 laps of the Sunday race to figure out the track, but then it clicked and I was rolling! Mid pack was a bit disappointing, but never havng been there before and being a senior citizen I'll take it!

[Garey Guzman]

Come on guys. The stuff is legal. There was never an official gentleman's agreeement that everyone agreed to.

Joe,
I don't know how an "official" gentleman's agreement is reached but Rand made a very specific request that no one run the stuff. If for no other reason, respect for one of the guys setting this whole thing up was due. I will simply say that I have great respect and admiration for Rand and Beeler (and a little for Mr. Eiken too ) and I'm very glad I was able to make it. And despite driving like a granny (nothing personal PF), I still finished ahead of all but one of 'em in the two races.

I'll leave it at that....

[crossle27]

Gary, if a 2:29.8 is grandma speed then I'd better wear some support hose and gray wig under my suit next time I race!!

[cooleyjb]

Joe,
I don't know how an "official" gentleman's agreement is reached but Rand made a very specific request that no one run the stuff. If for no other reason, respect for one of the guys setting this whole thing up was due. I will simply say that I have great respect and admiration for Rand and Beeler (and a little for Mr. Eiken too ) and I'm very glad I was able to make it. And despite driving like a granny (nothing personal PF), I still finished ahead of all but one of 'em in the two races.

I'll leave it at that....

If it had been that important then maybe a fuel stipulation in the supps would have been the prudent move.

Thankfully it won't be an issue in the future.

[Daryl DeArman]

Come on guys. The stuff is legal. There was never an official gentleman's agreeement that everyone agreed to.

<snip> I'll never think less of someone who uses something that is legal.

It's not one bit diffferent than the guy spending 2500 bucks on the whiz bang wheels, 12000 bucks on the little bit extra from the engine builder, or using sticker tires vs. take-offs.

Heckling, calling people out, publicly berating someone for doing something fully within the rules of the GCR is poor sportsmanship in my opinion.

Well said.

[Daryl DeArman]

Had to read through this thread to make sure, but I could not find any reference "to string people up". I also did not find any of these items contained in this thread as well: "heckling, calling people out, publicly berating someone".

The event is over and someone (Coop) asked if anyone was "using". The answer is yes.

It was talked about, at length, on another thread on this forum prior to the event.

Here; telling someone they should be ashamed for using something allowed by the rules to their advantage and wanting names named...is pretty much calling people out and publicly berating someone.

[Keith Nunes]

Mr. Guzman,

I'd like to sincerely apologize to you, and any of the other competitors, if any of our car's tail pipes offended or irritated you in any way. I am disappointed I didn't get a chance to meet you in person at the track to discuss any issues and/or concerns you might have had.


I still finished ahead of all but one of 'em in the two races.

I'll leave it at that....[/quote]


Congratulations on a race well run!