Steel braided, AN hose on stock motorcycle fuel system

[RussMcB]

I'm using the stock Kawasaki fuel pump and fuel rail, which (on the bike) uses a hose with plastic quick disconnect fittings (pictured). I'm wondering if there is a good way to connect AN lines to the stock components.

Do other bike brands have similar set ups?

I've been running steel braided hose with hose clamps on the stock Kawasaki fittings, but feeling nervous about it and want to do it right.

Thanks.

[sidney]

Russ,

We brazed a connection on to the fuel rail so we had the correct AN connection.

I'm using the stock Kawasaki fuel pump and fuel rail, which (on the bike) uses a hose with plastic quick disconnect fittings (pictured). I'm wondering if there is a good way to connect AN lines to the stock components.

Do other bike brands have similar set ups?

I've been running steel braided hose with hose clamps on the stock Kawasaki fittings, but feeling nervous about it and want to do it right.

Thanks.

[kmt63]

west uses a -6 adapter with a male -6 on one side a hex in the middle.cant remember what the other side on this adapter is.this was parted off in the lathe leaving a little of the hex with the -6 side.this was then bored to fit over the fuel rail tubing.then braised on.the hex is there to back it up with a wrench.

[RussMcB]

Thanks, guys. Sounds like brazing on a male AN fitting is the popular solution. I like the hex part for the wrench.

[sccadsr31]

Brother Ted and I use a brass rod made for tig welding to braze the fitting on.
David

[RussMcB]

I have a few aluminum -6AN fittings laying around that I could sacrifice for this, but is aluminum the wrong choice? Should I get something in steel?

Thanks again for the responses.

[sidney]

Hey Russ,

The tube we have is steel, so we went with steel. Welding dissimilar metals is not impossible, but with a fuel line, I wouldn't risk it.

[RussMcB]

Thanks. I'm probably showing my ignorance, but I thought brazing was more like gluing, so the different materials weren't as critical. It does kinda seem like steel would be a better choice, tho.

[glenn cooper]

Ya know, after seeing 3 cars in various states of flambe in the last three races, all being fuel related, I'd say fuel system integrity would be a good call!

A West WX10 was the next car ahead through the climbing esses and I could see heavy flame coming out through both tunnel openings. It looked surreal, just like the Concord Paris disaster. I tried to catch up and wave him over but he was on the gas at least matching my speed. It was engulfed by the time he pulled over at the inner loop.
It looked real bad later in the boneyard, later that day.

All of these instances may have one thing in common: They have a very high capability of being prevented!
Vigilance is the answer. Triple check that the fuel cap is on, all connections are tight, routing of all fuel lines is thought out well. I've seen cars that have fuel lines routed in such a way that a broken chain could possibly whip through one of the lines, spraying fuel at 45 psi all over the place.

Russ - I have a PeterD M/S's fuel rail adapter that replaces the stock Suzuki throttle body plastic "T" w/ a -6 nipple in a naluminum housing. Perhaps they make something for your engine, or would, or could be modded for fit?
I don't think hose clamps are a good idea w/ the pressures we run w/ FI. Even the stock plastic quick connect is a little suspect as well, given the danger of fire.

Coop's buck-eleven-eighty...

[RussMcB]

Glenn, of course you're right. I really shouldn't be taking any chances with the fuel system.

The Peter D part will not work with my different Kawasaki fuel rail, but, it has given me an idea. Thank you.

Good luck this weekend.

[kmt63]

west has found that the best connection at the fuel rail is a braised fitting on the steal fuel rail.both parts are steal.tried tig welding with steal wire.didnt work.never tried the everdoo tig brass.this fitting has never been a cause for fire.more like leaving the cap loose.leaving the fittings loose.leaving the fuel rail loose.each one of these has caused a fuel fire.never has it been the way a west car is plumed as far as fittings and hose that was the cause.

[sidney]

Hey Russ,

I guess what i would be concerned about over time is the expansion and contraction of two different metals, even from the initial brazing process. Maybe not a huge deal in some areas, but better to be safe than sorry when it comes to fuel. Just my thoughts, remember, I'm a failed engineer turned marketing guy.

[formulasuper]

Hey Russ,

I guess what i would be concerned about over time is the expansion and contraction of two different metals, even from the initial brazing process. Maybe not a huge deal in some areas, but better to be safe than sorry when it comes to fuel. Just my thoughts, remember, I'm a failed engineer turned marketing guy.

I'm guessing there wouldn't be much expansion or contraction in this line since it always has fuel flowing thru it which would act like a cooling system for the line.

[RussMcB]

Thanks, guys. Will order the steel weld-on (braze-on) bungs today.

[sccadsr31]

Thought a picture would be worth something, and when i look I realized these are gas brazed and not welding with tig phosphor bronze wire. A good gas brazed joint is very strong, and remember that is how most race cars were built prior to the 60's.
David

[kma4444]

I've had luck tig welding fittings on the rails on our Suzukis. They are coated, probably a zinc or silver cadmium but either way, it needs to be cleaned off before or it's a pain to weld. Nothing wrong with a well done braze or silicon bronze weld to be sure either.

[kmt63]

yea i think that is why we didnt have any luck tig welding the fittings at west.i did several of them and they where always gas braised because that is how it was done.i remember the other welder saying that he could never get all the zink or cad plating off and it welded terrable.

[sccadsr31]

I use muriatic acid (swimming pool acid) to clean plating, rust and crude off steel before welding, simple effective and you have to be careful of fumes.
David

[RussMcB]

OK, we're ready to braze. I drilled out the AN fitting so it was a tight fit but slid onto the fuel rail.

Before we braze the parts together, do I need to prepare the fuel rail surface? It looks like maybe zinc coating, but I really don't know.

Thanks far any advice.

[sccadsr31]

[FONT=Verdana]Yes you need to do some prep, read my post above about acid, get some swimming pool acid, (it's cheap and available) immerse the area to be welded for about 10 minute and you will be ready to go.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]David[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]

[Messenger Racing]

Aeromotive makes those adapters to go from the stock to various AN fittings. I think you buy the fitting for the fuel rail and then buy the AN adapter to screw into it.

It makes for a nice installation and still swivels.

We used on on the MX-1 and were very happy with it.

JM

[RussMcB]

Good find, Jay!

[Messenger Racing]

I found Aeromotive to be a good source for the whole fuel system. I used one of their pumps, their high quality filter, their regulator and the above described adapter.

On the regulator, I bought the one with the extra port on it where I plumbed my fuel pressure sensor on a quick disconnect and then I also use this port with a hose and another quick disconnect as my fuel test port.

JM