Off Track Discussion Content

[dc]

Over the years, we have made major efforts to keep a pretty tight control over the tone of the discussions on ApexSpeed, without altering the actual content. In almost 10 years, the results have proven themselves out with the quality of this community.

In the last few weeks, the Off Track section of the forums has become a playground for mindless political and social commentary more suited to the newspaper blogs and comment sections of other websites. While I applaud your ability to speak freely of your beliefs, this isn't a free speech political forum, and frankly, I'm tired of reading it here on ApexSpeed.

From this point forward, any thread that degrades into political, religious or social stone throwing will be locked immediately. It's probably best that we keep our personal views and opinions away from our hobbies, anyway.







doug

[Eric Cruz]

Bravo. Really had to resist getting in on the health insurance thing, and did not jump in because I think it detracts from what we all come together for. My parents taught me to stay away from discussions of politics and religion...

Met Keith and your Dad at the Sprints, finally. What a pleasure. Good folks like you are what makes this work so well. Thanks for all you do for our community...hell, you pretty much created it!

Best regards,
Eric

[RussMcB]

Thanks, Doug. Too often I do not heed my own advice and instead let myself get sucked into those types of discussions. I'm glad you are stepping in to help us from ourselves and keep Apexspeed the great community it is.

[D.T. Benner]

[Jim Garry]

Thanks!

[Mike B]

I don't know, Doug. The recent political discussions help me understand who agrees with my viewpoint and who has their head up their @ss.
As a business owner and sometimes advertiser that primarily relies on business from Apexspeed, I would never voice my opinion but it's nice to see that most of the members know what they're talking about and the others are just misinformed kool-aid drinkers...

Seriously, the discussions here are very civil, well-presented (even the wrong ones), and somewhat sympathetic to opposing views. Take a minute (or a few hours) to read some of the stuff in "The Lounge" on ekartingnews.com. Those guys don't hold anything back. Doug would be happy there.

[Charles Warner]

Doug,

I also disagree with this mild form of censorship. Until the last few posts the discussion was civil and enlightening. It would seem possible to exercise control over a very few offenders. The offending posts have been much milder than many that have been posted in racing-related threads (the issue of the Zetec conversion comes to mind.)

The subjects dealt with are germane to all of us and we are, after all, a cohesive community of a sort and should be able to discuss any and all topics as long as decorum is maintained. As an after-thought . . . . is it more appropriate to allow a racy/smutty joke thread (even if a disclaimer is in the header) than socially pertinent discussions?

Thanks,

[formulasuper]

And, no one is forcing anyone to read every thread.

[dc]

I also disagree with this mild form of censorship.

<Barney Fife voice>I've been managing internet discussion forums for almost 12 years, so if you want to get into the Freedom of Speech and "censorship" discussion, I'd be happy to oblige.</Barney>

At this point, though, it's easier for me to say that I could just as easily shut down the off topic forum completely instead of restricting the hot button topics. This is a formula car forum, and there are PLENTY of useless sites out there for people to discuss Hitler and socioeconomic politics. Simply put, I don't want you smoking in my living room. It makes the furniture smell.

And, no one is forcing anyone to read every thread.

You might not, but I do.

[Marshall Mauney]

Doug's forum, Doug's rules - makes sense to me.

[Brad Ellingson]

Doug,

Here's what you do... take the number of people on the forum....divide that number by 4500 and whatever you come up with is what you charge people for the right to talk about whatever they want on the forum. Next thing you know...you have an engine for that car of yours.

Hey...I just said it was an idea....never claimed it was a good one.

[Tom Sprecher]

I know it is not up for a vote, but if it were I'd vote no to censorship. Over here the tone is much more civilized and at least some thought goes into the responses. It's too bad we can not discuss other, more controversial (and often more interesting) topics once we are drawn to this site due to a commonality we share.

Now over in the Sandbox, that's another story. But they have the "Political Playground" and I believe you can lock it out if you wish. It is rather new, but judging by the thread to post to views ratio it generates more than it's fair share of hits.

Actually, the Sandbox was created by folks who were tired of being censored by the moderators at the IT site. In 3 years it has grown exponentially while the IT site is not much more than a shell of what it used to be. Basically, we all switched boats because the new site was more interesting due to free speech.

Their numbers: Threads: 14,494, Posts: 356,949, Members: 2,089 Inception: 04-05-2006.

[rickb99]

Well, I dunno. As a sometimes 'contributor' to the Off Topic section I have mixed feelings. I'm guessing something happened in the 'insurance' topic (which I didn't follow) that brought this on.

Certainly there are serious issues going on today that effect US as racers that have NOTHING to do with racing, directly. Cap & Trade, increasing taxes, petroleum prices and emission standards to name but a few.

Should we be able to talk about such issues here? I dunno. Most CERTAINLY, Doug does NOT need the aggravation of being the 'moderator' of a topic gone insane every week. On the other hand, the old FF Forum self distructed from an ON topic discussion. And, we can't say WE haven't had some 'heated' ones on topic here. Think Zetec/Pinto

In the end, it's up to Doug and we ALL need to respect his wishes until the next time somebody doesn't

After all, if you went on the Politico forum and posted the June Sprints results, you'd probably get whacked!

Carry on.....

[Matt King]

Well, I dunno. As a sometimes 'contributor' to the Off Topic section I have mixed feelings. I'm guessing something happened in the 'insurance' topic (which I didn't follow) that brought this on...

Actually I think it was the idiot telling us that Bernie was right about Hitler being a great manager and that the Jews needed to "get over" the Holocaust.

[D.T. Benner]

It was a bit of a stretch to say that was somehow Racing Related?
OK,I'm going back to squashing bugs to make up for the Bat problem.

[Charles Warner]

Yet, how is a comment such as this not in the same vein . . . yet allowed?

"So, is it just me, ir does anyone else get tweaked when someone (anyone) who lives a life of success or at least in the public eye, whom is accused of seriously despicable acts (let us not forget the numerous accusations of pedophilia with Jacko), that upon death, people put this person on a monument and forget everything they ever did wrong? Like when someone is truly hated when alive and then when they die, everyone breaks both knees to say how much of a great person they were and how they will be missed."

[dc]

You realize this is an argument you cannot win, right?

[RussMcB]

It seems perfectly acceptable to say there are other places people can go for those types of discussions. There's no reason why the folks providing Apexspeed should feel the need to host them.

And let's all realize that it's extremely hard for anyone to draw a line about what should be OK or not. This isn't something we should give Doug a hard time about. Let's just say thank you and move on.

[rickb99]

..... OK,I'm going back to squashing bugs to make up for the Bat problem.

Darrell,

I'm the one that raised the bat issue. It IS a serious problem for us racers. It's going to mean higher consumption of paper towels wiping 600 + tons of bugs off the body work and visors. More towels going in to land fills will be a bad thing. In addition, the purchase of more Windex to do the cleaning will drive up the cost of racing! Further harming the environment will be all the additional CO2 expelled by your crew expending the extra energy to do the cleaning.

The really devastating thing is the reduction in bat guano available to feed your Tulips in the Spring time and think of the tax consequences. The Guano Pickers of America Union will be asking for extended unemployment benefits until the bat shortage problem can be solved by congressional committee. That could take 300 years!

[Sean Maisey]

Of the old Mark Twain quote:

"'Tis better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

So, I am generally a fan of letting people express themselves, but I understand and support Doug's position.

Sean "I come to Apexspeed to escape my troubles" Maisey

[Camadella]

Doug,

I and all of the other racers really appreciate all of the work you've done to make the forum what it is, and no amount of thanks would be enough for the countless hours you've spent doing so.

Thanks again,

Chris C.

[Charles Warner]

You realize this is an argument you cannot win, right?

Not trying to win any argument. Of course it is your sandbox and you make the rules . . . and you apply them in the manner in which you choose.

Just making a point.

[mike g.]

In running an old BBS, uhh, way back when.. and... in my 15 year-or-so history of internet forums (going back to the RX7 list in the mid 90s, the PorscheList email lists then web forums, AudiWorld and many more) - I think this kind of moderation is a good idea.

I come here for racing info, and enjoy the off topic stuff that is related to motorsports, cars and similar.. And you can say I don't have to read the other stuff; but, when I click New Posts, I see these thread titles and jump into them (exactly how I got to this point of replying here)... So I'd appreciate keeping to a theme of posts, even in off topic.

[rickjohnson356]

Of the old Mark Twain quote:

"'Tis better to remain silent and have people think you a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

So, I am generally a fan of letting people express themselves, but I understand and support Doug's position.

Sean "I come to Apexspeed to escape my troubles" Maisey

I apreciate this site as a place of great information and as a respite from the crazies out there in the world.

I certainly don' want to risk losing the privilege of coming here to share my interests with other like-minded folks.

we know what Doug prefers, so let's comply....

[dc]

Not trying to win any argument. Of course it is your sandbox and you make the rules . . . and you apply them in the manner in which you choose.

Just making a point.

Point not taken. I don't think anyone would put Michael Jackson into the "hot button" topics of Nazis, religion, politics, abortion or any of the other flame-inducing discussions.

I'm not saying that there cannot be heated arguments or even topics that are thought-provoking and dissenting. I am not putting anyone in a position to feel like they can't have civil conversations about interesting things in the off topic forum. I'm not stifling your ability to say what you think here!

What I am saying is that when it comes to specific topics of race, religion, politics, and other polarizing subjects (we all know what they are), there are plenty of other places on the internet that you can get your rocks off voicing your opinion at someone from behind your keyboard. Keep it away from ApexSpeed.



We are all adults here, in a very intelligent, thoughtful, respectful community. I don't feel the need to trudge through this any further, so this is my last clarification of the new rule.

[Rick Iverson]

Fellas;

Here's the deal: immediately upon the explosive demise of the FFU, I was the first to migrate upon the cordial invitation of the Carters (actually, my original Apex FF number was 3). They graciously offered a home for C/FF teams to play, share, bond, bench race, lament, or just bitch about the SCCA (higher HQs is ALWAYS screwed up).

We are here because we could not play together well, we poorly dabbled in politics, we resorted to character bashing, and we could care less about the forum moderation posed by Jake Lamont and Dave Hopple.

Lest we forget, we are quests in the Carter home. Please remove your hat when you enter, take off your shoes before you step onto the carpet, grab yourself a cold Rolling Rock and let's go racing!

VR

Iverson

[Jerry Santucci 33]

hey guys.
i too remember ff underground and was there when it came apart. i can not forget how bad i felt about losing that site and DON'T want that to happen here.
to the Carter's:
you do what you think best, what you have been doing has worked GREAT for this long! i trust you and thank you!

my 2 cents

[dc]

Hey guys, this is a 1-year old thread.

Not really an issue anymore, as most everyone has kept the testy stuff away from ApexSpeed for a while now.

[Ron Tebo]

sad day for me.....but it sure was fun while it lasted....Aug17'th, 2009, 3:51pm....i think the "joke" thread has run it's course...

i sure got a lot of nice compliments....

[Purple Frog]

....

[Ron Tebo]

WOW...so many years have went by....I loved my time on ApexSpeed...but I guess my only contribution was nonsense and was banned. But best of all I gained a great number of friends that I have until this day.