WATKINS GLEN ROLL CALL

[JEREMY HILL]

IS ANYONE ELSE PLANNING TO RUN THE GLEN BESIDES COOP AND MYSELF? JEREMY HILL FB #00

[andyllc]

What are the dates for the Watkins event? I won't be there racing but I will be there on a Mon/Tues at the end of the month for some testing, would be nice to see some SCCA racing the day before.

[RobLav]

Event is this weekend.

[Tom Valet]

What are the dates for the Watkins event? I won't be there racing but I will be there on a Mon/Tues at the end of the month for some testing, would be nice to see some SCCA racing the day before.

The National is this weekend, but there is also a regional at the Glen on the weekend of July 26.

[JEREMY HILL]

calling tom smith, jason slahor, rob laverty, sean maisey, ron ignatowski, what do i have to do to get you guys to come to the glen this weekend? fb needs entries, if you guys want this class to survive you need to come out to play, jeremy hill fb #00

[RobLav]

That Glen National in our run group is always a zoo with too many FCY's. And The Glen seems to be bad luck for me anyway since everytime I ran my FC cars there I ended up being towed off the track.

I decided to run NHMS this weekend instead to further develop the car and driver. I'll be at LRP National (and the Pocono National if other FB cars are there).

[JEREMY HILL]

rob, so far there are only 35 cars in our run group vs the 65 we had in 2007, is it much cheaper for you to run new hampshire than the glen? running regionals does nothing for our national participation numbers, regards, jeremy

[RobLav]

Hey Jeremy,

I understand the point...

But the primary goal for me in spending my money and time to build this car and race it is for me to enjoy the time. The secondary goal is for National numbers. And it will always be in that order.

Although I really wanted to do Mosport, when I saw the rain coming on Sunday, I decided that the long tow and time out of work was not worth it. Concerning this weekend, the NHMS Double Regional is cheaper than the Glen National by about $50. The tow to The Glen is 6 hours for me opposed to 2.5 hours to NHMS. The people that help me at the track are willing to go to NHMS but The Glen is too far away for them. And I was assistant RE of NER last year - this weekend's "Pig Roast" is one of our favorite events. I do this not just for the racing but also for the people and friendship. We are a club. Unfortunately, it has become quite fractal between Nationals and Regionals. Topeka is so blind in focusing on National number participation.

Everybody seems to love The Glen. Except me. I don't at all like that blue barrier installed everywhere. It invites accidents and the attendant FCY which seems to fly for even the minor mishaps.

I've thought about this long and hard for many nights. Why do I race? What do I want to accomplish with a quite limited budget? I almost went down the path of running strictly Nationals the rest of this year but decided against it given the budget and car and driver development requirement. Next year will probably be more along that National path.

Thanks for the prodding...

[jjstecher]

Honestly lets face it hitting 2.5 for 2009 is not going to happen. I'd rather see everyone develop the cars and have them out on track in 2010 to make damn sure we hit the 2.5 requirements. Last years the last shot.

An even more blastpamous statement (that I think is 10000% what should happen) is everyone skip the ARRC and make the back to back weekends in FLA in January where they blow their travel load. Start the season off right with us getting 10-15 cars for 3 races.

[Mike B]

I don't even see Coop registered for the event...

Do we need to open up a big 'ol can of peer pressure on y'all? It kinda worked for the June Sprints. Might be a great way to get some easy points for the F1000 Championship presented by George Dean Race Engines and Taylor Race Engineering.

[RussMcB]

I hope this helps end the "Why aren't you people bringing your FB cars out to the upcoming national?" posts. They really rub me wrong. It's like, do you think people are not attending for good reasons? Give me a break.

I'd like to see FB at the Runoffs, but that is WAY down my list of things important to me.

I'll do nationals when I can and when it makes sense. Isn't that true for every FB owner?

[Mike B]

Russ,
Except for the fact that the Runoffs are now in my backyard, I couldn't care less about them. I think they're the tail wagging the dog and the club has put too much importance in them with respect to the rest of club racing.

However, if we don't get the national F1000 numbers up, there won't be an F1000 class in the future, nationally or regionally. I strongly believe that if we can make the Runoffs, the class will be self-sustaining thereafter, without the need for a semi-professional Championship (presented by George Dean Racing Engines and Taylor Race Engineering) and all the online haranguing.

[RobLav]

Russ - you got it right again.

Mike - Peer pressure will do nothing in this case. Completely agree about tail wagging the dog. If F1000 goes away, I will run the car as FS in SCCA Regionals or take my money to another club.

John - you got it right too. If we are so focused on National points, why would we ever push to run the ARRC? It's because we do it for fun.

As long as Topeka insists on the blindness of segregating and placing much more emphasis on National participation, I consider that their problem. Seems to me the National participation is a somewhat false incentive... sortof like the bubbles that the governments have created.

[jjstecher]

I think National participation is all every F1000 owner, converter, builder, manufacturer, engine supplier, etc should give a crap about because WITHOUT it the class goes away and lots of people are hanging around with their pockets empty and thumbs up their butts. I don't want to run FS or go pick my nose with another club that doesnt run similar cars. I want to run F1000 at national and regional races. I want the competition we saw at the Sprints at every race and sorry its not going to happen unless we get the numbers up and give people incentive to buy the cars, do the conversions, etc. That's FUN!! I know it puts people out but its actually better for the community if you do try to make the nationals to get the numbers up. Looking at all the cars out there now next year if we don't make the numbers I would be shocked but who knows. We need a commitment as a group to try and make it happen.

Personally I have a vested financial interest in seeing this class succeeding because I don't want a car without a class and I don't want to have to look at my other options of what to run. Next year my goal is 12 National races (trying to run as many double national weekends as possible) to do my part so that everyone else can enjoy their F1000 2,3,5,10 years from now just like the folks in FC. Hell I might even give my car to a certain person in the Raleigh area to run it while the snows still on the ground up here just to kick Coop's ass all over RAtl. its not about what Topeka wants its about what your fellow racers want and deserve for their investment in getting the class going.

</rant hat off>

[RussMcB]

Well, I understand I'm not a typical FB racer, but I'd be content to race my car in FS.

I do think what you (Mike) and others have done for F1000 should be commended. I know you folks have put in a lot of effort for the class, and because of your efforts, the class is doing as well as it is. I personally think the basic formula of the class is good enough to help it build itself. If not, then the class will die no matter what peer pressure there is.

BTW, the amount of money some of you are able to spend on your cars and towing them all over the country is beyond my comprehension.

[jjstecher]

Russ I sleep in my trailer (hugging my car) and eat packed sandwiches...not quite the life folks are calling up Robin Leach on. If you want or if anyone else wants I offer you guys my second trailer spot for next year and I will haul your car to every race I go to with no charge to you if you show up (buy a ticket via priceline or something) and race. Shagvan gets 12-14mph no matter how I load the trailer so I dont care. I'll share all my setup equipment, beer, etc as well.

Anyone from the north if you want to go to the Jan races in FLA let me know and I'll haul your car down as long as you give me the friendly point by for the lead on the track. :P

[jerry freeman]

John(I think),

If nobody up north takes you up on the Florida trip let me know. I might try to work something out with you. I like to go down there in the winter but the open trailer is not good for the long hauls. Got to get that national license first. One more regional before winter. Got two in at Nashville two weeks ago with the 07 Suzuki(finally).

Jerry

[Richard Dziak]

So glad to see the posts on this thread by Russ McB and RobLav. These are honest up front guys. I am in the same camp. All FB owner/drivers can still enjoy the FB class whether it's SCCA or another motorsports group. This will be my last year racing with SCCA and have joined a motorsports group ( Albuquerque, NM ) that is out for the fun, thrill and then competitive nature of the sport. These are older guys, I am the youngest at age 57, and their vintage formula cars are worth much more than my F1K.07 Phoenix. We have races and have a points championship series. I had my success with the SCCA as my website shows. I will stay a member of the SCCA for the people and friends of our club. For those FB owners who want to run national SCCA events I support them whole heartedly. I understand their super competitive nature to bring home and record victories.

My business is the financial markets of 27 years, and I have written here in the past on ApexSpeed about economic conditons in the USA that are affecting all Americans. For some.... driver/racers, they must weight the economics of racing and the rewards they get. For me to tow 4000 miles round trip, (ARRC) time loss from the office, hotel rooms and food costs, loss of income, just does not make economic sense even if its to try to run up numbers for a national class runoff event.

Economic conditions are still in the bucket and car counts will only be lower in the months ahead and most likely next year 2010. For one racer to schedule 10-12 races to help the class, doesn't make economic sense to me, unless they have money to burn and have a high disposbale income limit. 10-12 races per year requires $10,000 to $20,000 per year of disposable income. That's all after tax income also.

As I stated before.... there is room for all types of drivers in this class..Regional and National. We should all look to other sources other than SCCA to enjoy our cars, whether converted, home built or high priced purpose built cars.

The FB class is a great class and the cars are a blast to drive. For those who like to have fun and still be competitive, there are many venues for us to enjoy our cars in a controlled responsible, and safe racing environment. They also provide cheap trophies like the SCCA events.
,
Just my viewpoint........

[jjstecher]

Cant spend money when your dead so enjoy it when you're alive is my philosophy. I'm by no means a millionaire (as anyone who has seen the Shagvan in person can attest I roll on a budget and cut some corners here and there) I just have a passion to race these babies and I'm willing to do my part to see the class successful because I enjoy the cars.

No one said anyone has to tow 4000 miles to an event to help support the large community of F1000 racers. Pay 120 bucks for your national license and go out to the local national events and qualify at the back of the pack and turn some laps if you want.

I cant speak for everyone cause everyone has different motivations and drivers in life but I think a lot of people are missing the point (the folks like Mike B, and others are getting at when asking if someone is coming to a national event) when they say they dont mind running other events and series or classifications. The beauty of this class is that if it succeeds you have competition up and down the grid conforming to the same set of rules and you have someone to race with and against as the class grows. I don't want to be out there racing against FF's or other cars solo or against someone else in FS that drops in a Busa motor and blasts away down the straights. Competition and the battle of man against machine against other man and machine...that's why we race...I dont care if its for first or for dead last if you can have a 30-45 minute battle against someone in an equal car thats FUN thats what its all about.

[rickjohnson356]

If the National numbers don't add up, then FB will become a 'Regional only' class and not 'go away' as you may think.

The cars will still race together and the fun/cameraderie etc will be just as good.

You just won't be on TV at 3:00 in the morning with the rest of the Runoff Racers.

FS and FST are intended to be 'Regional Only' classes from the get-go.

If FB doesn't make the numbers, maybe it demonstrates that a new class like FB should not have been GIVEN National status in advance of EARNING the 'privilege'.

I'm a regional racer guy out to have fun with some like-minded folks.

[RobLav]

From our F1000 rules committee input, we ASKED for Regional class. Someone along the way decided on National right away, which was a complete surprise. This was a grassroots effort that probably should have started out Regional only. But as I stated earlier, the fractal differentiation between National and Regional should be reduced, if not completely removed. How silly is it that Regional entries don't count? What nonsense. By starting at National first, all it did was move current (mostly) formula car racers from one class to another. How does one expect a class to grow with new people if only National entries count? The class needs built at the Regional level as well.

[Northwind]

Richard,

The reason some of us want to see this class grow within the SCCA ranks is that we do not have the options in our parts of the country. The southwest part of the USA has more racing diversity than then the Central division of SCCA. Here in Cen-div we have long extreme winters that limit track oppurtunities for other groups to form and become viable, thus the shortage. I think John has some merit about wanting to have a class the has some equallity other than FS. If more people could have watched the race at the Junesprints they would know what he and others are striving for. I don't blame people for not wanting to run national races but with the low car counts what's the difference if you run near the back of a national field compared to a regional with no other cars entered. Atleast the national race is benefitting the class as a whole. I don't think there are many drivers running in national races that don't understand the teething pains of people developing new design cars. It has and is still happening in CSR and DSR.

[jerry freeman]

Northwinds quote about people not minding if people are going slow and working on the cars at nationals is what has kept me from pushing harder to get my car to
"national level" and get the national license.

If you read some of the post about licenses, alot of people don't like slower less experienced drivers at nationals. Seems to me people want things different way at different times. Not going to work.

I don't know if this is the case with other people but it's keep me at a slower pace to get the car to nationals.

Jerry

[Wright D]

A national class for FB increases the values of every F1000; home built or factory built.

The cost to race a regional or a national are all but the same, so why race regional at all? Why not help out your fellow racers and your self? Basically what the F1000 community is asking guys to do is race their local nationals and add one or two more cars per event. I know that there are some races who are not comfortable at national races because of the larger fields, but that is not really a problem this year as all the car counts are down.

Of course I have my own axe to grind; if the class moves to a regional only class then Phoenix will lose business. So what can Phoenix do to help? We have put the factor F1K.09 up for rent at national races for a price that is ridiculously low. The facotry has also participated in eight races this year, more than any manufacture, and all eight races have been nationals. We plan on running in at least four more. Team Phoenix is as committed to seeing this class grow as our fellow F1000 races are. The cars so so cool it is only going to be a matter of time before we out number Spec Miata.

[Richard Dziak]

I support all FB drivers who run National events. It is a shame that the SCCA does not recognize regional races and do not count them, as I have done 14 regional events in Class FB alone. The regional races are just as fun and competitive as national events. There is a competitive spirit of racing and have had many battles with other drivers at the regional level. The problem here is NOT with our own fellow FB racers either regional or national, it's the stupid SCCA rules. We are all out to have run and beat each other if we can. I understand the constraints of the Cen Div race schedule as I was born and raised in the Chicagoland area. I want no ..... and do not want to create controversy with my own group, of FB racers. We are out for the same result. I hail the efforts of Mike B for everything he has done for the FB class and to promote and organize the main event ARRC......

My F1000 owner/drivers website ...

http://formulaf1000classfbracecarownerd.shutterfly.com/ )

lists 32 FB owner/drivers that I know of. Of the 32.....9 owner/drivers were represented at the June Sprints which is considered one of the biggest in the SCCA. Thats a 28.125% turnout. Add in Mark Jaremko not an owner and we had 10. Considered light. I think with just 32 cars in the USA and Canada, we are expecting too much for the class in 2009. We will build and others will follow. If economic conditions can improve, perhaps the national numbers will improve....would be my guess. For many reasons we have no control over who enters National events. Economic times are tight for many people.

We should enjoy our cars, and if the class meets the SCCA national rules than we will have the National runoff spotlight. Until then and when it happens, we need to just enjoy these beautiful racing machines, man and machine vs man and machine as John S. has stated and not worry about numbers to suit the SCCA. Spec Miata (SM) was a regional class for many years before getting national status. FB will survive even if its a regional class. Whether its FB or FS it is still same car.

Just enjoy what we have and enjoy the friendship that is created, and create your battles on the track, either regional or national, class FB or with any other class.

[Wren]

If the National numbers don't add up, then FB will become a 'Regional only' class and not 'go away' as you may think.

The cars will still race together and the fun/cameraderie etc will be just as good.

If this happens, I think you will want to be invested in LD-200's and zetec motors as people swap their cars back. Some people are only in this class because of its national status.

[Northwind]

Richard,

What Formula 1000 needs is more people as passionate as you are about the class. Then this thread wouldn't even exist. Now if I could only finish my car and start doing more to help the class other then building a car.

[RussMcB]

Russ I sleep in my trailer (hugging my car) and eat packed sandwiches...not quite the life folks are calling up Robin Leach on. If you want or if anyone else wants I offer you guys my second trailer spot for next year and I will haul your car to every race I go to with no charge to you if you show up (buy a ticket via priceline or something) and race. Shagvan gets 12-14mph no matter how I load the trailer so I dont care. I'll share all my setup equipment, beer, etc as well.

Anyone from the north if you want to go to the Jan races in FLA let me know and I'll haul your car down as long as you give me the friendly point by for the lead on the track. :P

John, you're a stand up guy. I look forward to meeting you at the track some day.

I'm over-sensitive because I've had a tough start to F1000, including 3 failed attempts to run at national races (Roebling and twice at Rd Atl). All three DNS's were due to stupid little problems during the test day beforehand - just enough to ruin a weekend. To rub salt in the wound, I could have even won a couple due to problems encounterred by the fast guys. It's killing me to be working hours in the garage these days rather than going to races and having fun battles.

I think it's great there are many passionate FB racers anxious to have the class be big and special. That's low on my priority list. If I can, I'll make a nearby national race. Otherwise, I'll wince whenever I see a "why aren't you going?" post. Believe me, if my car is together and there'll be a positive balance in the checking account when I come home, I'm there. Besides, I don't see any national races left in 2009 I might run.

I don't mean to discourage racers going to the January FL races, but hasn't there been a lot of carnage in the last few years? Would be just my luck to start the season by wadding up my car ...

[Sean Maisey]

Jeremy - Sorry but I have done my one pain in the ass tow for the season. I would love to race with you guys, but I am still paying off the Sprints bills and looking for front nose/wing parts. I have three Nationals in so far this season, and may well still make Pocono to help with the numbers. But I can't help with the Glen.

Dustin - Well said. We are doing pretty well representing the class with so few cars in existance.

We just need to keep things positive and keep trying to get out to the tracks. The class/cars sell themselves when we do.

Let's face it, we have launched this class at the worst economic time possible. That coupled with the relatively attractive and well run F2000 pro races have stacked the deck against us just a bit for phenominal growth. But do not underestimate the positive statement that our class made at the June Sprints. That we are doing this well in this climate says a lot (heck look at the numbers for some of the other 'new' classes),

I know that there are several cars approaching readiness. Let keep encouraging those guys to finish and get the cars out. And I think we need to start a "pledge" calendar for the 2010 Nationals and get very organized before they start. As has been pointed out we need to make the numbers or the class will die (maybe a slow painful death, but death none-the-less).

Sean

[Camadella]

I don't mean to discourage racers going to the January FL races, but hasn't there been a lot of carnage in the last few years? Would be just my luck to start the season by wadding up my car ...

The only carnage that I know of this year was a car fire that wasn't put out in an timely fashion. As far as I can remember, most everyone finished all of the races. I know that I did.

From what I saw, the problems were organizational and race track related, not on-track with the drivers.

Just my $0.02.

Chris C.

[glenn cooper]

OK, Q2 rained out, but Q1 was great this morning.
I quickly matched time from last year, a 1:51.2 which was good enough for 3rd OA and FB pole. Many bad ass DSR/CSR/FA behind, and only a 014 FA and a WF1 DSR ahead.
I'm thinking hole shot (!), but only if served up on carbon/kevlar platter...
Jeremy Hill in the other FB in attendance having some running problems, turning a best of 1:54.3, and hopefully will be up to speed after diving into some possible harness issues.
The most kick ass Q today had to be current FB National Champ Justin Prichard in FC, beating a 6 yr old lap record by 4/10ths w/ a 1:52.4.
I guess that time really means I gotta get the lead out!
GC
Back to regularly OT commentary!

[glenn cooper]

Coming back strong from a lukewarm Q, Hill and his crew get their feces assimilated in a big way, besting the existing (his) lap record by 3.5 sec's or so, taking the FB win and mixing it up w/ some pretty impressive ($) FA kit along the way.

Coop meanwhile rolled to grid on 3.45 cylinders, suffering from a cyl #4 primary injector that would just not puff. This is the same problem that reared it's fugly head at Daytona on the last lap, and which I thought I had fixed. Chris "Critter" Young and I dove deep into attempting to fix this, even going so far as to bypass the harness from Primary #4 injector right to ECU input at harness plug, all to no avail.

I knew it would run somewhat acceptably over 8 or 9 k rpm, and factoring in the engine is 6 or 7 races worn, my fingers were crossed the whole race.
On the start we were not spooled up enough to be anywhere near 4 cylinders and I got swallowed up a bit by a pair of FA/CSR's blasting by on both sides, with your humble reporter playing the little white ball in their ping pong game.

Things got going pretty well soon enough however, but after several laps I noticed the alarm in the Pi dash came on, showing a dangerously low oil pressure reading. How low you ask? How about damn near single digit low? I immediately backed off, needing to be at half distance before pitting in order that I would get a 2nd (of 2 FB's entered) rather than a DNF.

I saw Hill looming, or rather closing at a good clip. While monitoring the lowish OP I turned in too late for the last left hander before the right onto the front straight, hopped the curb and ran paralell with the track before getting back on. As we turned in for the front straight, Hill took the lead and I dropped in line, behind.

Within a lap or so a FCY came out and I used this time to just run down the laps, short shifting and praying to the God of all things internally lubricated. Crazy as it sounds, the pressure started to come back up, lap after lap, 20, 25, 28, 30, 35, finally peaking at 40 or so. When the FCY came down and we went green, I tried to make a play for retaking the lead, but there were now many folks between Hill and I, folks I had pointed by while I was nursing the 'zook to half distance.

We ran like this for a few more laps before a waving yellow was displayed, this time for a guy spun on the exit of the toe of the boot, right on the hot exit line. I figured for sure we would go FCY, due to the dangerous position of this car, but they ran the last lap or two with the car there.
We finished in that order, 1 and 2.

The results were under protest when we left the track, I believe it was a protest against the officials for restarting the race w/o throwing a green?? The FCY double yellows were just suddenly - not there! I gotta read a GCR at some point in my life...
Justin Pritchard as mentioned previously was railing a K-Hill M/S's Zetec around the place, taking a first, and besting a 6 y/o by a tenth of a sec!

PS Jim Goughary Jr takes the Trans Am win, outlasting early leader Tony Ave, and later leader Tommy Drissi to take a huge win. Goughary, 2007 SCCA FM Nat Champ was silky smooth from our vantage point at T1 exit, and looked strong throughout.

[RussMcB]

Wow. Sounds like you certainly got the most performance out of the cards dealt to you. Congratulations to you both.

[mario_zgb]

http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1222519

[Rick Ross]

Looks like at least 4 new track records were set in this race. Was this due to perfect weather, repaved track, new configuration, etc.?????

[Paul LeCain]

It was pretty slow, and not many finishers.

[JEREMY HILL]

rick, the track was clean and the air cool and they didnt send out the pace car until we were able to get a few quick laps in!!, paul, you should have been there for an easy win, regards, jeremy hill

[JEREMY HILL]

much of my newfound speed last weekend at watkins glen i have to attribute to the genius of george dean, i have been chasing an intermitent wiring issue since day 1 with the 07, after a short discusion with gearge he nailed it and my motor came alive for the race, my advise to anyone building a car, send your harness to george and save yourself endless grief, i also need to thank bruce foss and hooiser for making an awesome tire, best regards, jeremy

[Jnovak]

Jeremy, congrats on a great win & lap record! All your hard work is paying off & I am sure you will be competitive at the ARRC so make sure you are there.

Thanks ... Jay Novak

[mario_zgb]

[FONT=r_ansi][SIZE=2][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]you should have come to WG and watch Jeremy's car in action... this car is getting better and better...[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]
car revs up to 13500 with no problems... steady oil pressure and temps... i've seen it and Jeremy will confirm it

no wonder he set the FB track record at WG... if you wanna dice with factory developed FB's and greatly respected Coop, that's the car to go for... winning? hehe... i'll leave that up to driver's discretion... racing with FA's and DSR's will be just additional fun

also... you'll love technical details (that count) on his car[/SIZE][/FONT]
[/SIZE][/FONT]