Ex-Ambulance As Tow Vehicle?

[Justin Daniels]

Hey guys, haven't posted up in a while (haven't posted up much to begin with really) but I have a quick question.

I'm considering picking up an ex-ambulance for a tow vehicle and wanted any input/experiences you guys are willing to offer. My theory is that I can strip out what I don't need from the back and have a decent little tool shed on wheels. It would most likely be an E350 Type III ambulance, which means about 10k lbs GVWR and almost double that for GCWR. Now I'll obviously want to get the thing weighed first to make sure I have enough spare payload space for tools/tongue weight of the trailer. Plus if I'm not towing a race car/trailer I can always load a go-kart right into the back of the thing.

From what I can see, a used ambulance is the easiest way to get a cheap diesel truck that isn't rotting from the elements.

Not sure whether I'll be towing open or closed trailer, leaning towards enclosed as it will solve my $160/month vehicle storage issues.

So what do you guys think?
Any input is greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

- Justin

[Josh Pitt]

justin,
a freind of mine from the track has this exact setup you are talking about.
when he explained the choice, great towing, can sleep in it, and it was not expensive at all, it seemed like a great idea.

my freind could likely give some input as to any changes he did with his rig. his is a really nice set-up.
after seeing his ex -ambulance, i would say go for it!
Josh

[Justin Daniels]

Josh,

Thanks for the good news. The only modification I can think of right now would be relating to the tow hitch due to the large amount of overhang from the frame that the ambulance body would have. I think that this would increase the stress on the hitch a bit. Any information your friend could provide would be great though.

Thanks again.

- Justin

[Tom Sprecher]

I know a guy who has a truck style ambulkance on this forum who might dicuss his experience with the whole setup. Actually, I think this is his second go around with an old ambulance.

[RussMcB]

It's an awesome idea! I'm on ambulance tow vehicle #2. First was an E350. It was great. My current tow vehicle was a mid size ambulance (GMC Kodiack w/ Caterpillar diesel). It's kinda big, but the price was right.

My first choice would be an E450 with probably a 7.3l engine. I think those were the most reliable.

You will love the storage compartments and lights (interior and exterior flood lights). Most ambulances were well cared for when in service, lived indoors. You may also get 110v, shore power, battery charger, etc.

Recently, I was wondering about putting a kart in the back of mine, but my hunch is the kart would be too wide, at least for my floor plan (rear compartments on both sides).

When I was looking, one of my desired features was a decent size window on the right side of the box. That makes it a little more RV-like. :-).

If you haven't already picked one out let me know. I have a few URL's bookmarked from when I was shopping around.

[Justin Daniels]

Russ,
That Kodiak looks intimidating. Love the black on black trailer.
I was looking at some down south of the border but with the exchange the way it is right now, and having to sort out the logistics (shipping/duties/taxes) it wasn't really going to be worth it. I'll still take a look at your bookmarks though.

Here's one of the ones I was looking at picking up:
http://www.trader.ca/Search/Details....7&ADS=7578707|

I owned an F250 with the 7.3 and love them to death, great engines.
What modifications, if any, did you have to make to yours?

Thanks for the help.

- Justin

[rmccown]

A bunch of them on EBay motors right now, too.

[RussMcB]

I got mine on ebay, almost unexpectedly. Put in a low bid and got it ($7,2000). It was one of those, "Oh crap. What have I done?" moments. :-).

Justin, that 2000 E350 looks nice & clean. The box looks to be on the small end of the scale. I shopped for the bigger boxed ambulances for more interior and storage room.

I've done: Took it to a truck place for general check over and service. New front tires. Fabbed a hitch, wiring for trailer. Put some E-track on the interior walls to facilitate making a bed platform (twin size futon) and a window A/C (& heater) unit in one of the compartments. Painted it ($1,800). Was planning to remove the flashing lights but probably wont.

Try hard to get the manual with the vehicle. Otherwise you'll be overwhelmed with the miles of wires and components.

I'll post URL's later when I can get to them.

[rmccown]

Hmm...this one is right near me, too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1996-...3A1|240%3A1318

Damnit, Russ! (shakes fist)

[Justin Daniels]

I got mine on ebay, almost unexpectedly. Put in a low bid and got it ($7,2000). It was one of those, "Oh crap. What have I done?" moments. :-).

I know exactly what you mean, have had that happen a few times on there.

I know they say you'll always find a way to use all of the space you have, but do you really think there would be a benefit to a larger unit? I don't have a compressor or anything, just a basic chest with hand tools and the odd thing that isn't in it (booster packs, etc).

I guess the main thing would be spares... I guess I need to take inventory of what I would need to bring out on a race weekend, thankfully I've been blessed by living within 30 minutes of where 4 of the 6 events will take place. So I figure worst case scenario I can just either run back to base or have someone bring out anything I didn't bring in the event of a midnight repair... I also know that the only part you NEED, is the one you DIDN'T bring with you.

I'll also most likely be picking up a 24' enclosed trailer that I found a good deal on, so I'll have more than enough room in there.

All that aside, how did the E350 tow your enclosed trailer? Did it just feel like any other truck/trailer combination?

- Justin

[carnut169]

Recently, I was wondering about putting a kart in the back of mine, but my hunch is the kart would be too wide, at least for my floor plan (rear compartments on both sides).

Karts can be transported on their side, stranding up, pretty much you name it. 5min to let the fuel drain out, 5 min to dump fuel out of the carb and go...

it would be cool just to strap a kart vertically to the back of the truck...

[T644HU05]

[RussMcB]

http://www.lifestarrescue.com/used_sales_type3.htm
http://www.ambulancetrader.com/cgi/c...s&query=browse
http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/f...CategoryID=209
http://www.commercialtrucktrader.com...ort-Year:DESC/
http://www.ambunet.com/productTypeIII.php

[Justin Daniels]

Thanks for the links!
Now I know that insurance is dirt cheap down there... but as far as relativity is concerned, how does having an ambulance box affect the rate of the E350 chassis, same? more? less?

[aerobach]

Regardless of what you get, resign yourself to replacing the brake system unless the seller can document all the maintence history for that vehicle. At Wishard Hospital (Indianapolis), we routinely replaced pads AND rotors every 2-3000 miles on our type III ambulances (that's why Ford no longer does extended service contracts for ambulances!!!). The manufactures also have little regard for weight savings so don't be shy about tearing out the interior - lots of 3/4" osb or plywood!!! Check for the hours run on the engine rather than mileage. Ambulances spend a lot of time sitting & idling especially if they had to sit outside all winter.
Otherwise, I agree with the other comments. These vehicles are generally well taken care of (but don't assume!) and cheap compared to other choices.
As for your insurance question - I'm just guessing but lots of contractors (plumbers, electrical, etc.) use this type of truck so it probably isn't a big deal.
Good luck, John Bachmann

ps: Russ - nice urban assault vehicle!!! Did it come with or without the SWAT team??!!!

[RussMcB]

Aerobach, you just reminded me about the idling aspect. I used Blackstone to get an oil test and engine health report. They said it was in good shape. One of thier comments was that there was some substance that indicated the truck probably spent a lot of time idling. They even said the oil could continue to be used for a bit longer, but I changed it for peace of mind. I should have listened to them. It cost a fortune to replace the oil. I thought my F250 diesel held a lot of oil, but not compared to the Cat diesel. That was the first time I used Blackstone. It was well worth the $20.

[Justin Daniels]

Is there an easy way to get the oil needed for the Blackstone thing? I can't really tell the guy selling it to do an oil change just to get me a sample of oil for a truck I may not buy.

[DanW]

Caterpillar has a procedure for everything! Seocond page shows how to pull a sample from the dipstick tube.

http://www.cat.com/cda/files/11363/7/pehp6001-08.pdf

Vacuum pump

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/pump.html

Oil analysis is a great way to assess the condition of a race motor made from expensivium too!

It also helps to educate yourself on the tests and interpretation. There are additional tests available if you identify a problem. Have a sample of your new oil tested to establish a baseline.

I strongly recommend an independent lab that does not manufacture or distribute oil. You will never know if you were sold bad oil.

I have been using oil analysis services for over 20 years in industry. We saved hundreds of thousands of dollars preventing machine wrecks and millions in production.

[Justin Daniels]

I guess I finally found a use for my vacuum bleeder.

Thanks.

[Rob McClelland]

Justin,

A few years back I drove one of the Toronto EMS units while the paramedics were tied up working away in the rear.

I was surprised how softly sprung the unit was causing it to wallow around when faced with the various road imperfections.

Make sure you take it out for a spin.

Rob

[azjc]

Just remember... getting parts for one can be a real pain in the ass. I know, that's part of what I do for a living .

[RussMcB]

Just remember... getting parts for one can be a real pain in the ass. I know, that's part of what I do for a living .

Can you give some examples? Most of the things I'd think people like us would need should be pretty easy to get (from Ford, GM, etc.). Are you talking about things particular to the box?

The only challenge I had was mine came with no ambulance specific manual so it took extra effort to figure out some electrical stuff, like battery charger/shore power, but those weren't really a big deal.

[formulasuper]

Justin,....
I was surprised how softly sprung the unit was causing it to wallow around when faced with the various road imperfections.
Rob

I'm really shocked to hear this after the one ride I had in the horizontal position with a broken collar bone & several other injuries from a motorcycle track day at Talladega several years ago. I distinctly remember going over the railroad tracks & thinking this thing has no springs!

[RussMcB]

Back when I was ambulance shopping and reading threads on EMT/Firemen's forums, I remember reading the mid-size ambulances (bigger ones like mine) are not great from the attendants' (and victim's) POV because the ride it so harsh. Maybe the E350 ones are mushier. I'm sure there are many variables, such as weight, shocks/springs, year, manufacturer, model, etc.

I'm really shocked to hear this after the one ride I had in the horizontal position with a broken collar bone & several other injuries from a motorcycle track day at Talladega several years ago. I distinctly remember going over the railroad tracks & thinking this thing has no springs!

I'm also sure the victim's perspective could be very different than the driver's. :-).

A disadvantage of the larger midsize ambulances are that the floor is much higher off the ground compared to the E350/E450. For me, that means steeper steps to get in, and less head room. I can't fully stand up in mine. Being able to stand up in the box would be nice.

[azjc]

Can you give some examples? Most of the things I'd think people like us would need should be pretty easy to get (from Ford, GM, etc.). Are you talking about things particular to the box?

The only challenge I had was mine came with no ambulance specific manual so it took extra effort to figure out some electrical stuff, like battery charger/shore power, but those weren't really a big deal.

We see everything from box/body & electrical to suspension parts that are brand specific. Depends on how much the unit manufacture changed or spec'd out special parts. I've delt with special springs, steer & drivetrain parts to name just a few.

As an example had a local fire department request a fix for springs that rested on the bump stops. "Fix" was special springs, air bags and Koni shocks (had to laugh as they told me how Koni's were so special ). See a lot of special Alt's, a major headache. Documentation is often quite poor also.

But, someone that is used to hard to find parts (like most of us with older formula cars ) may not find it an issue. Also some units are not really that much different than standard production units.

[Justin Daniels]

Thanks for all of the input guys, it has been very helpful.
I'll be sure to test one out before I buy it and send out some oil for analysis (idle time didn't even cross my mind until this thread).

I'll post up pictures when I finally scoop one up.

Cheers!

[Justin Daniels]

Well I finally picked one up.
Got it for a pretty good price considering what it is. I had it in at the stealership for an hour just to get them to give me an idea of what it needs and they said the brakes are basically new, needs front shocks, new steering damper, and eventually new front tires.

I've got it going in on Tuesday for a custom hitch, and I ended up picking up a 20' enclosed trailer the other day as well, so as soon as my car is prepped for the season I'll be ready to roll. finally.

Thanks for the help and support guys, here's the info on it and some pics:

2001 Ford E350
7.3L Turbo Diesel (same engine as in F250 but without intercooler)
Dually
Ex-Hamilton EMS
250,000km - 11,000 Hours.

I've got a Scangauge, Tuner, Siren Controller, and 4" turbo-back exhaust on the way for it.

[RussMcB]

Looks good! You are going to like all the storage compartments and cubby holes for race stuff, as well as the exterior flood lights for working on the car in the paddock at night. Just don't hit the wrong rocker arm switches or you'll scare everyone nearby. :-). Should be a fantastic tower for that size trailer. You wont know it's back there.

[Justin Daniels]

Thanks! Yeah the shelving is definitely useful, my tool boxes aren't full depth so they fit perfectly, just need to make a retaining system so they don't slide out. About the wrong switch, I was backing the thing up into my driveway and I accidentally hit the strobe switch instead of the switch to kill the reverse beep... it was 3am... neighbours weren't too happy.

I'll post up some more pictures when I get it all sorted, as it sits now I've removed ALL of the vinyl, and painted the wheels and front bumper valence black, which makes it look a lot better. Right now I'm in the process of hunting down a cause for my boost levels being about 10lbs lower than they should.

[D.T. Benner]

Could be it was tuned that way to make it last longer?

[marshall9]

Those ambulances are really neat. I know the same guy that has one here locally and it is a really neat setup. The only problem for me is that I am afraid of ghosts

[Eric Cruz]

I don't think they make much more than 20psig to begin with, so if you are down 10 it probably won't get out of its own way. I'm just suggesting that if it seems to run fine, you might double check your pressure measurement. When my Duramax decided to go into limp-home mode and limit boost because of a software glitch, it wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass...

Bst regards,
Eric

[D.T. Benner]

Me to. A hippey friend of mine in the 60's had a retired Herse he used for Camping! Every time he invited me to go along I had "Other Plans"

[Beartrax]

it wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's ass...

Bst regards,
Eric

Thanks for the beautiful imagery. You are an artist!

[Chris Taylor]

You'll want the full gauge suite before you try to run a tuner/aftermarket computer on the 7.3 -- everybody that's recommended I get a chip for my 97 Super Duty has then added "after you get gauges" and some have personal experience replacing a 7.3...

[Justin Daniels]

Hey guys, just an update.
Installed my EGT gauge, have trans fluid and boost (MAP reading) on my ScanGauge.
I checked boost mechanically and it confirmed my low boost readings... the thing drives alright it's just way down on power.

Also changed the starter out for a gear reduction unit after my old starter kicked the can, now the thing feels like it's going to flip over when I start it.

Will have pics of the entire getup in the next few days.
Just been working like a mad-man on my trailer... it's no wonder the company that built it is out of business...

[Christopher Crowe]

Check for the hours run on the engine rather than mileage. Ambulances spend a lot of time sitting & idling especially if they had to sit outside all winter.

This is interesting advice. Does anyone know an appropriate hours/miles ratio... or any other engine hours criterion for evaluating an ambulance as a tow vehicle?

Thanks much,

Chris