FF re-engine?

[WAM]

At the risk of tweaking the purists, I'm asking for advice, experience or even parts availability to replace my Lola T540 Kent with something more potent. I've already discovered that I'm nowhere close to being nationally competitive in CM and I have no doubt the fault lies more with driver than car. Nevertheless, I really enjoy running this car at the regional level. But I'm the only C-Modder in my region. And while it may be my fault, I'm not fast enough to knock down FTD anymore. (Getting up there)

Obviously stepping up the power will upclass me to at least BM, and again I won't be nationally competitive. That's okay -- my only objective is to play in the local sandbox. So I don't need or want the optimum BM package. Just an easy engine swap giving me maybe 150bhp which will be complimented with say 6 & 8 inch wheels and Continental tires.

So, concentrating on the easy/inexpensive end of the spectrum, anyone have some options to consider? Or maybe a hot-rodded cross-flow for sale? Without doing a lot of research I picked up a Zetec, but after measurement the conversion into a Lola chassis seems daunting. Doesn't meet the "easy" requirement.

TIA, Bill

[D.T. Benner]

Why not just build a Carbed Pinto? You can build a nice Pinto with aftermarket parts if it does not have to be SCCA/FC legal. Cheaper than a Zetec conversion and more Used Pintos are showing up as people convert to Zetec or MC power.

[Josh Pitt]

sell your ff as it is, and buy a different car?

[Fprodget]

back in mid 80's I built my zink z-10 into C/SR and and after a couple of races desired more power. i simply added webers, cam, stiffer valve springs and slightly higher compression pistons. I was quickly running with the better regional s2000's and that was still on formula ford rubber.

[WAM]

A Pinto 2000 would certainly meet my needs if it's extra length can be accomodated. Just need to spend more time with tape measures.

Selling my car and buying another isn't a bad idea. It's just that my natural talents seems to only be in buying cars and I can't sell a car to save my life. (I still own a 7-time national championship Europa I can't sell.)

But your thought has merit.

John I just saw your post. I've been somewhat concerned that torque = displacement and power = RPM. It's easy to get power with the parts buildup you described, but I've wondered it wouldn't be more at home on a track than ax course. I still want to exit 180's without downshifting and I can't envision big cams and carbs being real helpful. Still, if it worked for you...

[Fprodget]

I ran the zink c/sr in autocrosses as well. we ran it in one of the mod classes without the bodywork. The cam was not that radical....I can't recall what revs it came to life at, but it worked in autocrosses to with some FTD's against other mod and formula cars.

I still have some of my notes from those days:

The cam, springs, retainers and rod bolts came from Dave Bean and I think the cam part number was 470E0093 I don't recall the data for the cam.
Valve springs were 408E0023/408E022
I think the Pistons were a hepolite with a 27.7 CC dish that yielded about 10.1 to 1 comp

[Brian]

I had a nice 1600cc crossflow with about 150 hp based on a 12:1 compression ratio, a mild full race cam, dual 40 dcoe webers and a FF cylinder head. Dead easy (1300 cc pistons), very reliable. 150 racy hp in a FFord is a lot of fun! I had mine in a Merlyn Mk6 sports racer, vintage racing...

going to a very light flywheel can do a lot, too. And nothing is irreversable.

Brian

[Ian Lenhart]

[quote=WAM;207044]Selling my car and buying another isn't a bad idea. It's just that my natural talents seems to only be in buying cars and I can't sell a car to save my life. (I still own a 7-time national championship Europa I can't sell.)

quote]


At the right price, a T540 in running order should be able to sell itself. Good time to sell with the 40th anniversary this year and the T540 is a great car for Road America.

Ian

[Larry]

Either a 2.0 or 2.3 Pinto would be a blast! As stated, there are plenty of inexpensive aftermarket parts that will easily put you to 150+ hp. Personally, I'd like to go with a roller cam and dual side-draft Webers (just because they look classic).

If you troll e-bay, they frequently have candidate motors that have modest prices.

Larry Oliver
International Racing Products

[Jim Garry]

Bill,
I second the suggestion of putting the car on the market. At least for a little while. It's a past Solo National Champion car and might be attractive to an autocrosser wanting to campaign it seriously. It's also a really nice club racing car. Before altering it, it's worth a shot at selling it, no?

My $0.02 anyway.


Jim

[T644HU05]

It's your car! Chop up the back half, put a motorcycle motor in it, screw on some wings and rebody it in carbon fibre.



Just kidding... The Lola Police will hunt you down...

[WAM]

Yeah, I haven't made any hard calls yet. If I up-power it, my plan would be to do nothing irreversible. I'd park the Kent for future use, and limit chassis changes to wheels and tires.

Or another possibility is to further develop the car in CM and work on my driving. Mine is the ultra narrow track front end and I gotta think a wide track front conversion might pay dividends. I haven't found a wide track parts supplier yet, but they must be out there.

I saw reference to a Bahner wide track on a lola, but the only Bahner I found in search was Marc Bahner and he says, no, not him. Anyone know? I believe the factory had an E-model that was really wide track (+8"?) but that might be too much.

Appreciate your input guys...keep it coming. -- Bill

[na94]

A Pinto 2000 would certainly meet my needs if it's extra length can be accomodated. Just need to spend more time with tape measures.

Selling my car and buying another isn't a bad idea. It's just that my natural talents seems to only be in buying cars and I can't sell a car to save my life. (I still own a 7-time national championship Europa I can't sell.)

But your thought has merit.

John I just saw your post. I've been somewhat concerned that torque = displacement and power = RPM. It's easy to get power with the parts buildup you described, but I've wondered it wouldn't be more at home on a track than ax course. I still want to exit 180's without downshifting and I can't envision big cams and carbs being real helpful. Still, if it worked for you...

This wouldn't be a DM Europa, would it? If it's the same one I'm thinking of, don't you also own a rather quick AM car as well???

I know of a local FF1600 motor that was built up to make about 150hp at the wheels, that would probably be the easiest option as everything would fit back together again.

Have you lightened your cv joints, axles, diff carrier, ring gear, flywheel, rotors, hubs, etc? What type of clutch are you running? There's quite a bit you can do to make a car faster other than increasing the engine output.

[PCalhoun]

Bill-
Keep the car "as-is" w/ a 1600 and just freshen it up to current stds; new pistons, lightened flywheel, etc. You will maintain the integrity and re-sale value of the car that way and also do you really have any idea how tired your motor actually may be? Plus we need to maintain (and grow) CM particpation #'s, it truly is a lot of performance for the buck on an auto-x course.

A 2.0 OHC motor would fit, as Lola built a few T580s for FF2000 back in the day, but why go thru the hassle of backdating a car for local competiton?

As to a wide track option, Pat Prince would be the best bet. He at least in the past did have T540 jigs for the common crash items.

NA94- You're thinking of Wasdahl's eclectic collection of auto-x cars.

[Roland V. Johnson]

The easiest and most cost effective method is just to bump up the power of the uprated you have installed. Call one of the pro engine builders and see what they have. Ivey (503-255-1123)or Loyning might have some options on the shelf. This way you don't have to change bellhousings, motor mounts, cooling and oiling systems, trans input shaft, etc.

[WAM]

This wouldn't be a DM Europa, would it? If it's the same one I'm thinking of, don't you also own a rather quick AM car as well???

I know of a local FF1600 motor that was built up to make about 150hp at the wheels, that would probably be the easiest option as everything would fit back together again.

Have you lightened your cv joints, axles, diff carrier, ring gear, flywheel, rotors, hubs, etc? What type of clutch are you running? There's quite a bit you can do to make a car faster other than increasing the engine output.

No, it's an AP car, hence the problem. Class went away, and the SEB doesn't put a lot of thought into impacts. I wrote a letter asking for specs to be allowed into BP which they declined -- and then killed BP as well. Don't get me started.

Yes, a lot of parts lightening can be done and while the engine is fairly fresh, it was built 15 years ago and doesn't have the latest go-fast stuff like aluminum heads and such.

Gotta say I don't know if it's wise to fine-hone the car at considerable expense when I'm not already a contender. Frankly, picking up a second will only get me to the middle of a national field. And I have another car with which I prettymuch trophy at will at Nationals. As I say, the Lola is just a regional effort, driven mostly when the CP car is down.

[Mike McHugh]

Pull the Kent and preserve it as a legal FF engine. Then pull the Twin Cam out of the Europa, and bolt into the FF. Add some wider wheels and tires, and you got a B Mod car!

Mike McHugh

[Roger Eade]

The Xflow, twin cam Lotus engines just eat money, and should be used as boat anchours(ask me how I know) 160 hp out of a cross flow is real easy, and they will last a lot longer than 160 from a TC Lotus, Datsun crank rods and pistons roller rockers and good cam, 8000 rpm no problems, and more pull than a 12 year old school boy, have a look at the UK Burton site, this will give you some ideas, The Pinto is a good engine, but is a heavy old lump and the power you can get is only about 190 hp and it still holds together, its limited by the head porting, and there is not a lot that can be done about that, so my money would be on doing the xflow, as you will not have to modify the chassis, and the power to weight will be on the money.
Roger

[EYERACE]

Keep the block and trick it out.

The legal FF has a stock cam........hey a nice grind on a cam, stroke the engine and raise the compression ratio, mate with an aluminum flywheel [PAECO - if no other source], use rear rims on all four corners and find someting other than the standard ford tires and you've got a beast of an autocross car.

[WAM]

Actually, a plan is coming together. A friend bought a FF2000 and converted it to a 1600. The 2.0 turned out to be a professionally built cheater motor with extensive headwork. No good for FF2000, but fine for my purposes. We're adding a cam and dual 45 DCOE's, and in it goes.

Thanks all, for the suggestions. Bill

[Stan Clayton]

Bill, have you measured the Pinto 2L to verify that it will fit? I ask because I almost bought one to put in my Zink Z-10B FF which had been converted to CSR. In a rare moment of common sense I broke out the tape measure before laying out cash...and the engine bay was several inches too short to accommodate the Pinto.

OTOH, the VW water-cooled inline 4-bangers are within a quarter inch or so of the Kent's length and will drop right in with appropriate mounts, exhaust and Hewland adapter (all readily available due to the VW 1.6L SuperVee). There are a number of variants...1.6L, 1.7L and 1.8L counterflow, as well as 2.0L counterflow and crossflow. All the blocks are the same length and share the same bellhousing pattern. If you drop a 1.9 VW diesel crank in a 2.0 block, you can get 2.1L. Lots of smile-raising torque there to be had in a Kent-friendly package.

Good luck and have fun!

[WAM]

An update just for closure. I swapped engines with a VanDiemen FF2000. Since it doesn't need to be Continental legal, I fit a pair of 45 DCOE's and a mildish race cam. 170 bhp @ 7000. Turns out a pinto is prettymuch a bolt-in in this chassis. Nothing obnoxious had to be done except the engine cover was cut off and stored. Other mods include fitting the VD rear wing and 8" & 10" wheels and tires. So far so good, but I'm at the bottom of the learning curve of "fast".

I think the next major step will be to convert to a wide-track front suspension, but I'll make that another topic when I get there.

[mwizard]

Any new updates? I worry you will be overloading the delicate FF chassis and suspension. How is it doing?
Mark

[WAM]

It's doing fine. Not a true Bmod, more like Cmod+. I built my own wide track front suspension and went through several rounds of spring and alignment changes to get it dialed in and then a tire change to Avon. But I'm running out of low-hanging fruit on the chassis. Biggest deficit is lack of aero. I'll get around to that sooner or later, and then it's just a matter of tweaking the driver.