Post race impound

[Jack Marr]

I am going to be the Chief Steward at a double National later this year and need your input. As you know, at post race impound the GCR calls for the cars to be weighed plus 2 other inspections. It being a double means I have to come up with 4 inspections.

I'd like to avoid the "mickey mouse" stuff (like stickers) but do things that are meaningful and able to be checked by our Tech crew reasonably quickly.

Is pulling the valve cover and checking cam lift too invasive?

You know the cars better than I do, what would you like to see checked at impound?

Thanks.

Jack Marr

[Matt King]

On classes with a maximum spec, track width is an easy one.

[Paul LeCain]

Another simple one on the winged classes is wing width, height, setback.

One other that is easy and also useful to the drivers is to make sure the kill switch actually kills everything it should.

This one is more of a pain, but, in the classes where a fuel injection or carb max venturi size is specified, check that. I've found that announcing ahead of time that you propose to do this check means you'll have great compliance.

[D.T. Benner]

On classes that require the car to have a Reverse Gear,ask them to back up.
In Formula Fords that was the way to prove to tech that you had not converted your 4 speed to a 5 speed.

[Frank C]

At an impound at Hallett this year, there was a check for steel (not aluminum) calipers in FF. There also was a wheel inspection as part of the Kephart wheel melodrama.
- Frank C

[FASTDAD]

On some formula cars (like mine) the valve cover cover is an intregal or stressed part of the chassis. to remove it requires a great deal of work and with no gasket only sealer it makes a real mess when reassembled if the sealer is not cured. I would think the use of a ruler, magnet, & scales would be good. Running tin tops in the past we would be asked to remove the intake on a regular basis, so that may be better, also the clutch was a good one, but then again on a tin top it's not real hard. Of course this all depends on schedules, how long are you and the competitor willing to stay? I've not gotten out of some tracks until after midnite due to tear downs. Racing locally is one thing, towing 6 to 8 hours after an event is another. Good luck.

[AlanVDW]

Check to be sure the battery is secured, not loose or held in by a bungee.
Fire bottle pin, on the bottle, removed?

[stonebridge20]

I think anything you pick to inspect will be fine with drivers as long as the inspectors actually know how to measure the inspected item. Whatever you pick to inspect, you should find a respected driver/crew member/engine builder in that class and review with them the proper method to achieve accurate results prior to post race impound.


Side note: To the inspectors and workers. Thank you for all your hard work and dedication!


.

[Marshall Mauney]

Fuel.

[Greg Mercurio]

We used to check alternator output in tin-tops. An amazing number of cars were running the belt but the alternator was disconnectd so no load and no HP loss.

Wheel width and track on Production and T classes.

Formula cars, reverse gear, winged cars rear wing height, front wing width.

I would shy away from valve lift as too long to check accurately. You only get 30 mnutes in Impound and in multi class groups a nightmare even with a lot of help.

SIR checks for the cars required to have them is a slam dunk.

[Brian Graham]

Jack the back up and check that the diff is open, catch tanks and proper venting, helps keep tracks cleaner as well. Brian.

[Josh Pitt]

On some formula cars (like mine) the valve cover cover is an intregal or stressed part of the chassis. to remove it requires a great deal of work and with no gasket only sealer it makes a real mess when reassembled if the sealer is not cured. I would think the use of a ruler, magnet, & scales would be good. Running tin tops in the past we would be asked to remove the intake on a regular basis, so that may be better, also the clutch was a good one, but then again on a tin top it's not real hard. Of course this all depends on schedules, how long are you and the competitor willing to stay? I've not gotten out of some tracks until after midnite due to tear downs. Racing locally is one thing, towing 6 to 8 hours after an event is another. Good luck.

on my DB-1 i would have to pull the exhaust pipe off to remove my valve cover.
i wouldnt want to do this while the car is hot either just after a race.
if someone were to protest me for something, then sure, i wouldnt have any issue with doing so, but if it was for a routine tech inspection, and i wasnt on the podium, i would say thanks, but but no thanks; see you later, but do so nicely.
if you want to keep people coming and racing, remember to make it so its only a big hassle if it NEEDS to be, otherwise you will be chasing people away from coming back and running with the club/region.
edited to add:
I commend you for asking this stuff, you sound like you are/will be a great tech guy as you are looking for input, and sound like you are very resonable in your approach to things.

[Steve Demeter]

Check wheel width.

On restricted classes, check the diameter

[RussMcB]

<snip> As you know, at post race impound the GCR calls for the cars to be weighed plus 2 other inspections. <snip>

I didn't know that. Interesting. Is that done at nationals only?

I like the fire bottle suggestion above. Maybe make sure the kill switch and "E"xtinguisher decals are in appropriate places for safety workers. Maybe check to see if the roll bar stamp matches the number in the log book.

[Revs2-12k]

Check for Nomex or Carbon X Socks, SEDIV catches a few every time.

[Dave Harmison]

I'd suggest "the roulette wheel of compliance". Make a good quality spinner, ala Wheel of Fortune and let it decide. (Find someone really, really attractive to spin it.)

Whatever the wheel decides get's checked. Now there are things I wouldn't do, like piston, crank and flywheel mass, but I think max valve lift is ok. Actually verifying cam profile I wouldn't do.

I agree on some cars it is really hard to check things, but if I was going to cheat, that's where I'd do it on the assumption that no one will ever ask to check it.

I'd like to see this done at the 40th as it will be a high enough visibility event that someone might be tempted to play fast and loose with the rules. Put it in the supps so everyone knows to bring a gasket set.

[kea]

This might date me, but in the Bulovia watch sponsored F/Ford series at Mosport, the cars that went to impound, were all weight, but, the tech personal had picked 2 or 3 finishing positions to do "other" checks. This way, if what they wanted to inspect, might take a little more time than normal, they didn't need to repeat it six or more times over. Because you had little idea where you might finish and didn't know what number they picked, you had to figure that you might be one of them. The threat of getting caught should be the deterrent without the need to keep everyone longer in impound after the race.

[Michael Rand]

Response to Dave Harmison re: motor tech at the 40th, Joe Stimola has agreed to be the engine tech guru for the event.
Joe built hundreds and hundreds of FF motors so knows the 1600 as well as anyone but is out of the engine business so will be completely impartial.
Also, all the engine builders will be there : Jay Ivey, Arnie Loyning, Curtis Farley, Rollin Butler, Steve Knapp, Sandy Shamlian, and you know very well they'll be watching and listening carefully.
Joe is developing a list of things that might be checked, and that list will be published well in advance so no one won't be able to say they weren't warned.

[Larry]

Here is a system that I have seen used effectively--but it requires a good chief of tech. Get together and develop a list of things you will check by race group, not just a list of things that you will check on each car. Tech can divide into teams and check each group as stated in their plan. The variety of checks means that drivers can't simply focus on the "check du jour," but must work to have a completely legal car.

You also need to be able to check some of these things quickly, while you may want to spend a little more time with other groups. Folks have already listed a lot of possibilities, but here are some more ideas:
Rim width (easy and quick using a caliper)
Air cleaner on SS (check for cutting)
"Check Engine" light in SS (must not be illuminated)
Ferrous brake calipers on FF/FC
Fire bottle (weight and/or pressure indication)
Drivers gear (legal socks?)

I'd recommend a dedicated team to check fuel. They can practice on day 1, so on race day, they'll be proficient.

Good luck!
Larry Oliver
erstwhile national chief steward

[D.T. Benner]

Our 50 car race group was once directed to Impound after a session and all driver were directed to "Show Us Your Socks"! I was surprised at the number of socks that were not Nomex.
Asking to see Homolagation Papers also helps keep the "one race wonders" form entering a class they should not be in.

[captaineddie1975]

As I dont have my logbook (w/homo papers stapled to it) in the car while I race
how do you propose to check logbook vs chassis serial number and homo papers
in impound? I can just see drivers w/o crew or crewmembers suddenly racing to the far ends of the paddock to grab logbooks. It had better be in the supps that these are to be checked so provison can be made to have them on hand in impound.

[ciamracerx]

Some may think this “Mickey mouse” but when I work a corner, it amazes me how many cars have numbers that are illegible. Mostly this is due to number changes at registration but this is not an excuse, numbers need to be legible.
I believe the GCR requires numbers to 8 inches high and contrasting color.
It is hard enough to “catch” the number on a wing plate, but when you are spinning legible numbers are a must.

[Roland V. Johnson]

One of the interesting things we checked years ago was reverse gear. At the end of impound I had every driver start his car and back out. Quite a few cars failed.

[John LaRue]

Flywheel weight

[rmccown]

Flywheel weight

You funny!

[rickjohnson356]

For one race, the Chief Steward called down and had us check the dims on formula car cockpit openings. Something like min 15" wide over a 30"length.

I'll have to check my GCR.

I made a template out of cardboard to the spec size. If it was close we didn't really worry, just if it was blatantly too small (none were too small).

Fast and easy.

[John LaRue]

I recall being at the Kershaw National early one spring (2002/03) and they had one of the FF's in annual tech going over it with a microscope and tweezers. They couldn't see the serial number, didn't like the fuel testing port, etc.... Finally they started blasting the guy over the car being in DP90, telling him that it did not meet the GCR. (you now pay extra for the semi gloss finish on a helmet as it is in vogue-his car looked really nice btw!) Anyway, the tech guy was a total ass and finally the unnamed racer told him to either DQ him and tell him he couldn't race or get on with it. He got to race; how lucky huh? I know I stood in line for well over 3 hours that evening to get an annual and I was about 8 cars back when tech opened. Perhaps it was a new tech official, perhaps he had come off a bad week...who knows.

With the alternatives available for our time, money and other resources the club and official volunteers can ill afford such type of behaviour. Thankfully it is not often seen, but even once is too often. We had another situation not directed at myself but another FC competitor this past season that will likely result in the loss of a brand new racer. We need to work together, not be adversarial in nature.

John

[steve kramer]

Jack: good to see you asking questions. Check flywheel material with a magnet in classes where it must be ferrous. Where spec'd air filters and I think tech has the SRF go/no go gauges for the MAF.
Stickers and kill switches should have been checked when an annual is done - checks in impound should be focused on performance advantages.
See you there

[Josh Pitt]

Stickers and kill switches should have been checked when an annual is done - checks in impound should be focused on performance advantages.
See you there

thats exactly what i was thinking also.
personally I really dont care is a guy has his SCCA patch on his suit, or if his socks are made of a material that puts him at risk, thats his choice, and neither thing effects the performance of the car to justify a DQ.
these are also things that i thought are done when a car gets an annual tech.


Stick to the performance stuff.

[Bruce Allen FSCCA #82]

Keep in mind that to remove a valve cover in FE is to trash the engine. In a spec car there are seals on the engine and Digitial ID tags on many body parts. Only SCCA Enterprises can apply these. Many of your inspections might require a different approach for the spec formula car.

Check the seals! Never in five years of racing have the seals or IDs been checked on my car. Also there are rules for marking tires to prevent use of more than one set per race/qual combination that stewards are supposed to follow and they rarely do -- even in National races.

[EYERACE]

I'm 6 foot tall........at Roebling Road one time, with me still sitting in the car, as we were coming up to the scales, 'Squirrel' kept saying in a hush voice > "scrunch down, scrunch down" <

the tech people had a few different length straight edges that they would lay on the top of the car front hoop and the hoop behind the driver's head [with the body work still on] to test that that theoretical straight line connecting the two hoops would pass above the driver's head and not touch the driver's helmet.

my suggestion to make it a fun weekend is to announce Saturday morning that all will be weighed and two items will be checked........but do not announce this next idea and make it that in multi-class grids only one picky thing be checked and the other item be something like > hey, got your patch? and you don't have to ask or point out that that's what you're looking for. .....as a bluff, make people open their hoods, don't look for anything in particular, stand there and go Hmmmm....and if they ask what you're looking for, tell them that they were OK but don't go into any specifics.......and all the other classes in that grid check patch and stickers on the car. keep it simple. if i had just finished busting my tail for a half hour and beat someone else by half a length and was in one piece and then some person told me i'm DQ'd cuz i wore the wrong socks.........i think that the word PRIC# comes to mind especially if i'd towed many hours to get there.

the tech inspectors that make too much of it all are what is more likely to tick off a car owner/driver than anything else. i'd not appreciate it if someone decided to make me restart a very hot engine just so they could test my kill switch. i'd not appreciate it if someone made me sit and idle rather long right after the race just so they could test my kill switch.

no offense but just cuz you've never done it before doesn't mean it's ok if you go and get serious. ...
problem is each racer will have their own definition of what 'serious' means....so hopefully you understand that because the definition is variable i'm wanting to not sound harsh on you. maybe you could ask each driver if they had fun, no rule against inspecting for having fun. if they answer with a serious "no" getting them to talk about it is something a driver would appreciate even if you can't do something about what their trouble turned out to be. i can't believe you would even consider taking the valve cover off of a hot engine. i refused when asked right after a race for a fuel sample and there was one guy standing there with one fire extinguisher [there's that messing with a hot engine again] but i left the car there did tell them that i would give them a sample when the engine had cooled....it was my call when things were cool enough.....and they were cool with that. i believe fuel is an issue for protests only because there are too many ways that an honest racer can still flunk a fuel check......and i also object to fuel testing unless the tech inspector had already obtained samples of all fuel sold at the track, tested it and announced the results prior to qualifying.

in a one car class i wouldn't ever look at anything more than patches and stickers......i'd rather not make a one car class feel anything but welcomed so they'd come back again.

just to keep it light......ask drivers if they're racing either of their first two races on a novice permit and then look for the "X's" on the car....even though this is not the official stuff of tech at impound.

[Jack Marr]

To all who have responded, THANKS! I have gotten many good ideas and have trashed a couple that you tell me aren't too spiffy. Keep the ideas comming, you guys help an old coot like me a lot!

For those who have asked-These inspections are mandatory at National races, optional at Regionals, GCR 5.9.3.C and are car related, not sox and such.

The race I'm talking about is the NN at Texas Motor Speedway in May. Come play with us!

Jack