"Re-Tiring" the Trailer

[Swift17]

Greetings All:

Well ... It is getting the time to by new shoes for the trailer -- the recent horror stories that I have read has convinced me that paying anything (yet still much less than racing shoes - for one or two weekend UGH) is better than blow out ( yes I know and follow ... tire pressure checks, ALL the time). I BELIEVE I have done my research and now seek comments, experiences and opinions and to the following brands and Load Ratings ---

Note -- 20' x 8.5' tugger - Swift db-1. battery golf card with the world's heaviest scale platforms, and getting custom cabinets and maybe a rubber floor -- (Convinced don't want Load Range "C" anymore)

Denman Express S/T Radial ST225/75R15 8 Ply [DRT-58R] Price $96.95

Denman Express S/T Radial ST225/75R15 10 Ply [DRT-59R] Price: $114.50

GoodYear Marathon 225/75R15 Load Range D 8 Ply Price: $96.00

Carlisle ST225/75r-15" Radial Tire, L.R. 'D' 8 Ply Price: $103.50

Carlisle ST225/75r-15" Radial Tire, L.R. 'E' 10 Ply Price: $114.50

It appears the Commercial Tire Co. Denmans are built in Mexico, the Carlisle in Pennsylvania (?) (probably off shore) and Goodyear says it makes theirs in China. The web site for each is interesting especially Denmans'

Also, any real benefit to changing to ally wheels ? seems unnecessary but ....

Thank you

[Captain]

Any of those I am sure will be a good choice.

I tend to favor the goodyears over the Carlisle tires...mostly because the name. When I bought my trailer the owner showed me 2 new carlisles that had blown out on him, same rating as the goodyears...on the same trailer. Still run the carlisles on the lighter open trailers though.

I would be interested to hear more about the Denmans.

[dmiller]

After two blowouts on my 8plys, I upgraded to 10plys. I was at an event, so dropped by discount tire and got their 10ply (forget the name now). The interesting this is that they offer a LIFETIME replacement policy for something like 20 bucks a tire, not prorated. If you have a blow out somewhere and have to buy a tire they give you the price what you paid for your tire as well. I don't buy these things for all my other purchases, but the idea of having never to buy another trailer tire was pretty appealing. -d

[PCalhoun]

With LRC tires your trailer most likely has tandem 3500# axles for a GVWR of 7000#. Subtracting the empty curb weight of the trailer from the GVWR will give you your cargo capacity, at which point an LRC should be adequate if you are not overloaded.

That said bumping up one load range should not cause any problems. My preference on tires has always been Good Year Marathons if for no other reason it is always easy to find a Good Year retailer for service. Marathons were being made in China, but Good Year announced they are moving production back to the USA a couple months ago. Stock on shelves is most likely Chinese.

Another alternative I have had folks have good experience w/ is Maxxis.

[Swift17]

Thank you for your comments ..... currently what does your company install as OEM ?

EJ

[Darren Brown]

I used to blow out two or three trailer tires a year (24 foot enclosed). I was using Goodyear Marathons and Carlisle, both in the C load range. Every long tow (over 500 miles) I would have to change at least one tire.

I bought some D load range marathons last year and have not had a single problem. I already put around 10,000 miles on them with no issue, and these are even the Chinese ones.

I really think if is more how fast you drive and how often you check your tire pressures that will save your tires. I think more than one of my exploded tires was because I ran something over in the road and it lost air. I used to only check the pressure when leaving the house and then again leaving the track. Now I pretty much check every fuel stop.

[Steve Demeter]

Used carlisles for 20 years with nary an issue.

Just stay within the load rating of the tire and keep the pressures properly set.

[Jack Marr]

What I have been told by some tire folks is to get real honest-to-gosh trailer tires. Truck and car tires are of a different cnstruction and don't work as well on a trailer.

[DaveB]

I would look into 235's over the 225's if you have the room. Go with the 10 ply. 235's are rated at 2850lbs. verses 2550lbs. if my memory serves me. The added capacity sure won't hurt as your trailer is probably overloaded any ways.I would guess you have about 4000lbs load capacity or less. I have blown out most brands I have tried,but prefer Goodyear's.

Dave

[Rick Kirchner]

First set - Goodyear Marathons; 4 belt separations, didn't get the recall notice.
Replaced 'em with Denman's; 4 belt separations, re-imbursed at ~50% they were seriously out of round and beat the $%^& out of everything in my trailer for 1000 miles!
Now have Carlsiles for the last 18 months or so, seem to be holding up OK.

[steve kramer]

After two blowouts on my 8plys, I upgraded to 10plys. I was at an event, so dropped by discount tire and got their 10ply (forget the name now). The interesting this is that they offer a LIFETIME replacement policy for something like 20 bucks a tire, not prorated. If you have a blow out somewhere and have to buy a tire they give you the price what you paid for your tire as well. I don't buy these things for all my other purchases, but the idea of having never to buy another trailer tire was pretty appealing. -d

That Discount Tire warrany is fact - one caveat: If you blow out a tire and get it replaced on the road (no Discount Tire avail) - you have to bring the blown tire carcass to DT to get the refund. Cost me $90 to find this out - your's for free!

Always buy trailer tires and always check the pressure before a trip.

[D.T. Benner]

If you replace your steel trailer 8 lug wheels with alloys one's be sure you get the ones designed for trailers. Most OEM light truck alloys are OK but some from passenger cars won't take the abuse a trailer wheel gets. Abuse?? Sometime when backing your trailer in a tight turn stop and get out and take a look at what your Tires are doing! The side load on the wheels is way more than a normal car can put on a wheel. Use the long lug nuts made for the wheel you use and keep them torqued.

[Trackside Larry]

May I add my experience....My Pace Shadow GT trailer came with GoodYear standard 6 ply rated tires that Pace puts on the trailer. Now this is my mobile shop that I take to the racetracks almost every weekend. I have gone through a set of 4 tires every year since 2002 when I bought the trailer. In 2003,2004 I went through 6 tires every year.

I called Pace & they said that I must have the trailer overloaded, thats why I'm blowing up the tires...They said that the trailer is rated at 10,000 lbs....The best case is to really be at 10% under, That would be 9,000 lbs. SO I took the trailer to a truck stop, dropped the trailer on the scale without the truck. It weighed 9,140. It turns out that the tires that Pace puts on are rated just at their LIMIT & if you keep the tire PSI at 65..... Let the PSI go under 65 and the tire heats up..... / NOW do 75/80 MPH for a few hours & PREPARE for blowouts.

NOW after talking to my mechanic that does all my truck & trailer work...Also a race team owner. He said to put a set of Denman E rated 10 Ply tires on the trailer & I wouldn't have a problem anymore. So in feb of 2006....On went a set on Denmen, The PSI is at 80/85

WOW......NO BLOWOUTS IN 2 1/2 years. The tires are still going strong..

[Swift17]

Thanks to all of you for your comments - decision made ---

The tire selected:
Carlisle Radial Trail 225 x 75 x 15 LRE MaxLC 2850 PSI 80 Product Code 519822

Vendor
Discount Tire ( No stores in South Florida - "Discount Tire On Line" - actually LESS on-line than store bought)

Price: 105.00 - FREE SHIPPING

Options:
Valve Stem - $3.00
Certificate For Tire Replacement - $16.50 (see below +)

TOTAL DELIVERED TO MY DOOR: $498.00

+
How am I covered?
In the event one or more of my tires fail due to defect, or incurs damage that cannot be repaired, Discount Tire Direct will replace it absolutely FREE, (this includes freight to me). Regardless of the number of miles I put on the tires, I will be covered for the life of the original tread down to 3/32" remaining, or three (3) years from the date of purchase. DISCOUNT has been offering this warranty for over 30 years. This Certificate for Free Replacement is unbeatable.

How do I redeem the Certificate for Free Replacement?
There are two ways I can redeem the certificate:

1) Call any sales agent at Discount Tire Direct, tell them I had a tire problem and are covered under our Certificate for Free Replacement. A replacement* tire will be sent to free of charge. At that time, I will have the option to purchase the Certificate for Free Replacement for the replacement tire.
Note: Discount Tire Direct reserves the right to have damaged tires returned to them for inspection.** This will be at my expense.

If I break done in transit and get it replaced on the road (no Discount Tire avail) - I have to bring/ship the blown tire carcass to DISCOUNT to get the refund.

2) You can go to any Discount Tire Company/America's Tire Company retail store. Their staff will be get the replacement* tire you need. (By Example all DISCOUNT store in the Orlando area say they stock at lease two (2) of these)

What do the Certificates for Free Replacement not cover?
Abnormal tire wear. Reasons for abnormal wear include a vehicle being out of alignment, suspension problems or improper tire inflation.
Damage caused by collision, vandalism, or willful abuse.
"Cupping" due to lack of rotation. I guess even Trailer Tires should be rotated.
Tire(s) worn past the wear bar.
Labor costs in regards to mounting, balancing or bolting on of new tire(s).

In what states are the retail outlets located?
Our parent company has outlets in Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, North Carolina, New Mexico, Nevada, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas, Utah, and Washington.

*In the event the registered tire is discontinued or not available, a tire of similar value will be substituted.

**Please read "What is not covered" regarding inspection. Tires returned for inspection must pass those guidelines for credit to be issued.

[Sorry for sounding like a commercial in passing this info on - BUT I want to avoid breakdowns and if it occurs, minimize the effect]

[Brian]

My two cents - trailer tires are designed to accommodate the weird side loads and flexing that is put on them when turning and backing. Truck tires are not.

Trailer tires have various weight ratings - go 20% higher than your maximum actual load.

Trailer tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph. Go over that for hours on end and run at close to or over the max weight rating - blow-outs are your fault, not the tires.

I've had one failure in 20 years that wasn't a puncture. Knock on wood...


Brian

[steve kramer]

I brought a carcass - actually the two sidewalls - of a tire last week.
$15.50 and I had a new tire.
You can call that Discount tire deal the buy once a lifetime tire program.

[JIM McQUAIG]

It has not been mentioned here but I have been told by several tire dealers and one trailer manufacture that a lot of our problems come from valve stems. The standard issue rubber ones are good for up to 50 pounds . Above that we should use high pressure rubber or metal stems . I know it doesn't seem right since most trailers come with low pressure stems . I found this out a couple of trailers ago . Since changing I have had no problems. And don't let the young man drive the truck !
Good luck

[Swift17]

Ok ... where did you acquire them ....

EJ

[PCalhoun]

It has not been mentioned here but I have been told by several tire dealers and one trailer manufacture that a lot of our problems come from valve stems. The standard issue rubber ones are good for up to 50 pounds . Above that we should use high pressure rubber or metal stems . I know it doesn't seem right since most trailers come with low pressure stems . I found this out a couple of trailers ago . Since changing I have had no problems. And don't let the young man drive the truck !
Good luck

The problem was inferior quality rubber stems NOT made of EPDM rubber. This was prevalent throughout the automotive aftermarket when valve production first started moving to Asia in mass about 7-8 years ago. Result was dry rotting and cracking stems from exposure to UV and the elements, cracked heads during installation, or poor sealing due to expansion/contraction.

The maximum recommended PSI for rubber stems has always been 50-60 PSI. Anything above that requires a metal stem or a high-pressure snap-in as shown below, which has a brass inner body. Any of these valves should be available at a quality tire shop or your local NAPA.

On a trailer built by a quality manufacturer the wheel, tire, stem, axle, hub, & brakes should all be matched up according to the GVWR. What does this mean? It means you do not have the same the same size wheel & tire for example on a 5000# axle as you would on a 3500#. The components are all chosen to EXCEED the rated GVWR, which is the axle qty x the axle rating and is the maximum cacpacity of the filled trailer, including the trailer iteself; i.e. 10000# GVWR - 4500# trailer= 5500# cargo capacity.

The other thing to check is the valve stem core. If it has a red colored band it is a "high-temp" core, if it has a black band it is std. And those nice green colored valve caps you are starting to see, means the tire was filled w/ Nitrogen...at least at some point. Which BTW is another way to keep the temps down & stable on your trailer tires, but you all knew that.

[Swift17]

Ok ... get them where ?

EJ

[Matt King]

Like he said, any good tire shop or try a NAPA. My local tire guy has them and I use the metal stems on my fendered race car because I figure they are just a little more likely not to get sheared off in a wheel to wheel contact (had that happen once or twice!)

[drdestructo]

Anyone with a 7000 gvw trailer gone to the 225 tire, up from the 205?

Russ

[Darren Brown]

Anyone with a 7000 gvw trailer gone to the 225 tire, up from the 205?

Russ

Russ,

I did just that. I lost a lot of tires before changing to the larger tire and high load rating. I had just enough room in the wheel wells for the larger tire.

Darren

[Brian]

Well, after boasting that I had only had one blowout in 20 years, I had one on the way to VIR. The tire shop at the next exit had 3 of the right size and rating tires (my spare was brand new, thankfully), but of the dreaded chinese Mastertrack brand, which I happily bought since the blowout was totally and completely not noticable from the drivers seat and I may well have driven half an hour on three tires. Two of the remaining tires showed definite signs of cupping and excessive wear that wasn't there when I started the day. Oh well. I now have all new tires, of a cheap and nasty brand, and I''ll just carry on regardless...

Brian

[Swift17]

Thanks to all of you for your comments - ORIGINAL decision UNWOUND --- NEW CONTENDER

The tire selected:

MAXXIS TL15713000225/75R1510
225 x 75 x 15 LRE (10 ply) MaxLC 2830 PSI 80

Vendor
Discount Tire ( No stores in South Florida - "Discount Tire On Line" - actually LESS on-line than store bought)

Price: 116.00 - FREE SHIPPING

Options:
Valve Stem - $6.00 (METAL)
Certificate For Tire Replacement - $16.50 (see comments above in prior post)

It appears that there has been recent problems w/ Carlisles in HOT temps (i.e. Florida Arizona and New Mexico) and while Discount can still get them and sell them they no longer stock them and it suggests Maxxis -- Two sales men have them on their toy haulers for over two (2) years.

Any comments on this brand !! I hate this indecision .......

[PCalhoun]

I had customers & dealers who really liked the Maxxis trailer tires after using them. Going back a few years in fact when the decision was made to go back to Good Year there were a fair number of folks who voiced their opinion to keep the Maxxis.

These being the very same folks who voiced their displeasure upon initial arrival because they did not say Good Year on the side! Long story short, it would not be a bad trailer tire choice.

[Tom Sprecher]

I need to replace my tires at this time as well. I'm looking at the Carlisle ST225/75R-15/E1 BSL Radial Trail from Discount Tire http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/car...roductId=47078 since they have multiple stores nearby. The replacement warranty is only good for 3 years and costs an additional $56 so I'll probably pass on it. Also, I have a Goodyear ST205 that is only a year old and would like use that as the spare.

My question is do I need wider wheels due to the wider tires, will they find my 24" Pace, and if so, where's the best place to get them? Also, my wife really wants me to get new wheels. Yes, you read that right. I'm looking at some simple white or black steel wheels. I'd sell the old tires and wheels on craigslist to help pay for the new ones and save $10 on the disposal fee.

[Darren Brown]

For my 24 foot Haulmark I switched from the 205 to the 225 using the same wheels. I did not have any clearance issues. It is a little tight, but even fully loaded with my brother's GT-1 car there was never a tire rub.

The size difference was not that bad, If I remember when I measured the tire (after mounted) it was only 3/4" larger diameter and maybe 1/2" wider.

Darren

[PCalhoun]

My question is do I need wider wheels due to the wider tires, will they find my 24" Pace, and if so, where's the best place to get them? Also, my wife really wants me to get new wheels. Yes, you read that right. I'm looking at some simple white or black steel wheels. I'd sell the old tires and wheels on craigslist to help pay for the new ones and save $10 on the disposal fee.

N0- Both wheels would be a 15x6. The difference when built and installed at the factory is the wheel box clearance that Darren mentions and that you would end up w/ a 6-bolt hub.

As for new wheels a few different options. You can call Pace Customer Service/Parts at 800.247.5767, visit your local dealer, or seek out an independant distributor of trailer parts such as Red Neck.

The other alternative may be Badger Components owned by World Challenge racer Jeff Courtney, however, I am not sure if he sells retail or only wholesale:
http://www.badgercomponents.com/index.html

[drdestructo]

Darren,

Did you go with a 10 ply tire? I wonder if they are the same size as a lower load tire.

Russ

[Darren Brown]

Russ I will have to look tomorrow to be sure, but I think they are the 8 ply Goodyear Marathon load range D. From what I understand the Marathons have been/were made in Canada, China, and USA. I do not remember but one country of origin was having a lot of problems with the tires. With that said, my tires are made in China and still working good.

I blew out every Carlisle and Goodyear in the C load range tire. Last year I decided to try to fit the larger 225 D load range Goodyear Marathon on the wheels and in the wheel well. So far I have not had any problems. I have towed a lot last year and a good amount so far this year (maybe a total of 11,000 miles). I keep expecting to lose a tire, but nothing yet. I am actually wearing down the tread rather than just blowing them out.

Hope that helps

Darren

[Darren Brown]

I do have a question that hopefully Peter is still checking this thread and can answer.

Why is it that these trailer manufactures (Haulmark for sure since I have one) use these 3500 lbs axles on trailers over 20 feet? Seems to me that any enclosed trailer over 20 feet (except all aluminum) is going to weigh well over 4000 pounds. I think my 24 weighs around 4800 pounds. That does not leave a lot of capacity left over for a car and equipment or even arts and crafts if somebody is using a trailer for that.


If I knew back in 2000 (when I bought my trailer) what I learned over the years about trailer weight and tires, I would have bought one with 5,000 pound axles. One day I would like to get one of the Pace toy hauler set ups, but just can not afford it these days. Who knows lottery is Saturday, maybe I can order one up Monday .


Darren

[Brian]

Axle rating (and tires rated to match) were simply an option I chose when I ordered my trailer (one of the many Forest River brands). Manufacturers can't sppecify what you will carry, so it's on the purchaser to buy something that is suitable for their load. I could have gotten three setups, I think, I chose the middle one at dual 5200 lb axles, this on a 10K gvwr trailer that logically would have never had over 9,200 lbs on the tires. That was a margin of 1,200 lbs. I never load up past 8,000 gross, so a margin of 2,400 lbs, or roughly 25%. Load range D tires that seem to have two pies in the sidewall and 6 in the tread. I do believe that I will start to life them out at three years or 12,000 miles. Or obvious signs of tire-like stupidity.

How many of us actually weigh and track the stuff we carry along with us? I did spreadsheets for each typical load-out I do, based on car weights and spares, tires and tools. Mind you I've actually downsized from that in the recent past.

Brian

[PCalhoun]

I
Why is it that these trailer manufactures (Haulmark for sure since I have one) use these 3500 lbs axles on trailers over 20 feet? Seems to me that any enclosed trailer over 20 feet (except all aluminum) is going to weigh well over 4000 pounds. I think my 24 weighs around 4800 pounds. That does not leave a lot of capacity left over for a car and equipment or even arts and crafts if somebody is using a trailer for that.
Darren

Darren-
I do not disagree w/ you that a 3500# axle on a 24' trailer is not adequate in the majority of cases. The reality is that trailers, just like trucks, are built and equippped to consumer demand and price. Until the shopper comes in the dealer also does not know if the the guy will be hauling kyacs or a full fendered racecar.

Too many consumers are shopping for a price and too many dealers are willing to accomidate that. Rather than properly qualifying and educating the shopper on what the proper equipment is for the job at hand. Same reason there is F150, 250, 350, etc trucks built by Ford. Each model has specific capabilities and a price point associatted w/ it.

All the major trailer companies have axles of heavier capacity available as options. It is simply a matter of the customer ordering it or the dealer stocking it in that configuration.

The 5k or 5.2k axle upgrade is an interesting one for a couple different reasons. The first is obviously why two axles so close together? Years ago it was pretty much 5.2k being used, but many states have made 10k GVWR a threshold for licensing, taxes, etc. Thus many have switched to 5k axles to minimze the financial burden on the consumer. The difference is the amount and hardness of the rubber in the Torsion axle tube.

The other major difference is the hub & brake assembly. On a Haulmark for example you keep the 5-bolt hub assembly as on the 3.5k axles, but on a Pace you are upgraded to a 6-bolt hub. Then obviously you have the larger drum (or optional disc) brake assembly and the larger tire as discussed in this thread.

Go to 6k axles and it all changes again; 8-bolt hub, bigger brakes, 16" wheel, etc.