New FB- Site Link and CAD Drawdings

[racer27]

Looks like an New F1000 (FB) is on the Horizon from Philly MotorSports. Site says it is provisionally named the "Kronos". I came across their link in the Google ads section at the bottom of this page. If anything like thier FF (The Pantaino) it should be a unique and competitive offering.

http://www.phillymotorsports.com/Formula.htm That page has a link to some Cad Drawings.

The site says comming in Jan '09. I know they mentioned this project last time I talked to the team in Oct but I was unaware they were this close to completion.

I wish them luck and success in this undertaking.

[u00mem9]

I hope their F1000 design includes "optional driver anti-decapitation bars" available on the 1600!!

WTF!!!?!

[Janko]

Dear Mr. WTF
Thank you for you kind concerns regarding the inclusion of an Anti-decapitation bar option on our F1000 challenger. I think we can all agree that we like our heads where they are and when the racing rules call for an increase in safety, it is the obligation of every manufacturer to oblige. If you have any questions about the FRCCA rules, under which FF1600 Patinato DB4 runs, please see Section 21.04 Mandatory FRCCA Club Class chassis modifications in the link below.

http://www.frcca.com/downloads/rules...8_rev01_A1.pdf

Thank you.

[HazelNut]

do any other clubs require that? Do they actually work to prevent decapitation? Do you really need decapitation protection? Has anyone ever been decapitated because they didn't have these chassis mods?

It seems to me that maybe they possibly could prevent decapitation but they could also cause all sorts of other neck injuries.

To me it's a little odd that they seem to be the only club that requires these bars. You'd think if it were a major concern you'd see it as a requirement for lots of clubs and pro series alike. But to the best of my knowledge I haven't seen any F1 or Indy cars with these devices on them.

[Monty M]

do any other clubs require that? Do they actually work to prevent decapitation? Do you really need decapitation protection? Has anyone ever been decapitated because they didn't have these chassis mods?

It seems to me that maybe they possibly could prevent decapitation but they could also cause all sorts of other neck injuries.

To me it's a little odd that they seem to be the only club that requires these bars. You'd think if it were a major concern you'd see it as a requirement for lots of clubs and pro series alike. But to the best of my knowledge I haven't seen any F1 or Indy cars with these devices on them.

Gonzalo Rodriguez was semi-decapitated at the turn in to the corkscrew at Laguna Seca in 1999 in a Penske Champ Car. He also went end-for-end at 140+. Not sure if it has ever happened in club situations? Perhaps someone else can shed some more light on the situation.

Gonzalo was killed instantly by a basilar skull fracture caused by the impact with the wall (which was lined by only a small layer of tires).

[HazelNut]

I'm pretty sure the mod described in the rcca rule book wouldn't have helped in that case. Perhaps a HANS device would have though.

[Monty M]

I'm pretty sure the mod described in the rcca rule book wouldn't have helped in that case. Perhaps a HANS device would have though.

No doubt. It was the only big decapitation incident that came to mind.

[HazelNut]

i just youtube-d it and damn was that an ugly crash.

[Janko]

Here is how the FIA handles it:
Check out Drawing 4 on page 61 of FIA's 2009 Formula 1 Technical Regulations. I haven't read the rules in detail, but not much of the driver's head is showing, and his chin is definitely well below the cockpit sidewalls which will prevent any objects from getting under the drivers chin to pull his head off.

FRCCA Rules:
Section 21.04 Mandatory FRCCA Club Class chassis modifications.
(a) PADCAP (Protection Against DECAPitation)
(i) The chassis must provide protection against decapitation, herein call the PADCAP rule. This is defined as a devise that protects any object from getting below the drivers chin.
(ii) This devise may be bars going up to the roll bar or a supported dash hoop, either or both will be legal if they accomplish the goal of preventing an object from decapitating the driver.

[HazelNut]

Obvisouly I think it's a good thing to not be decapitated, however I'm left questioning why additional bars would need to be added to a chassis to provide that kind of protection. It seems like the chassis should be designed with that is mind. And if it can;t provide minimal protection like that maybe it's time to shelve it. Obviously any new chassis should be constructed with that kind of safety feature in mind.

In my mind it would seem the "anti-decapiation bars" allow the drivers head direct contact with a structural member of the car in the event of a crash. Yes an F1 car monocoque does have a very high wall on the cell but it is also surrounded by a large collar of dense foam designed to absorb energy if you wreck. Additionally it is a large plane whereas the rcca required bars are just bars that are at a funny angle. It seems like they could do more damage than good in the majority of crashes.

I copied and pasted this from the PDF you posted alink to.

14.6.5 All of the padding described above must be so installed that if movement of the driver's head, in any expected trajectory during an accident, were to compress the foam fully at any point, his helmet would not make contact with any structural part of the car.

[HazelNut]

By the way thanks for posting the F1 Rule book that is pretty neat!

[racer27]

The decap bars were an add-on on my RF-85, designed, fabricated and installed by Formula Haus. They extended out from the roll hoop, I doubt there was any real possibility of my helmet making any contact with them, but I did add FIA padding just in case. They did not cause any issues (Egress, visibility, etc) I kept them on all the time regardless of where I ran.

[HazelNut]

these are some pics of the first race car I ever owned (with it's new, new owner). When I owned it it was fully SCCA legal. Afterwards it went to run the RCCA where the anti decap bars were added.

Maybe the picture is funny but to me it looks like the drivers head would very easily make contact with them in any crash.